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Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by randaleem

Hi,

I've seen some of these explained online, but not all. Does anyone have
a comprehensive list of Jack colors used by Serge modules all through
the years, and their meaning?

Including those which may have changed, or been used sparsely? And any
functions which may have been used with more than one color?

If there is a fully comprehensive list already somewhere, I haven't
found it in the usual locations.

Thank you for any help.

Kind regards, Randal

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Y.:P

Usually, to my knowledge, it goes like this (anyone; pls correct me if im wrong)

red: trigger
blue: AC coupled CV / audio
black: DC coupled CV / audio
purple: sync

function that uses more than one color: trigger and gate inputs on the envelope generator: one is yellow and one's red.. according to Rex, they serve exactly the same function but use different colors for visual differentiation

you may find a more complete description of the color codings here: http://home.att.net/~djaux/intro76.htm

hope this helps
Yulian

On 6-Dec-07, at 8:15 AM, randaleem wrote:

Hi,

I've seen some of these explained online, but not all. Does anyone have
a comprehensive list of Jack colors used by Serge modules all through
the years, and their meaning?

Including those which may have changed, or been used sparsely? And any
functions which may have been used with more than one color?

If there is a fully comprehensive list already somewhere, I haven't
found it in the usual locations.

Thank you for any help.

Kind regards, Randal


Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Carbon111

Here are all the colors I know of, maybe some other people know of more:

Black = Bipolar/AC/Audio

Blue = Unipolar/DC

Red = Gate/Logic

Yellow = Trig

Grey/White = White Noise

Pink = Sync and Pink Noise

Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon111.com/serge.html
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: randaleem <randaleem@...>
>Date: 2007/12/06 Thu AM 07:15:50 CST
>Hi,
>
>I've seen some of these explained online, but not all. Does anyone have
>a comprehensive list of Jack colors used by Serge modules all through
>the years, and their meaning?

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Steve Ridley

> red: trigger

Red = gate or trigger pulses in older systems. More recent
systems use yellow for trigger.

> blue: AC coupled CV / audio

No. Blue is DC coupled signals in the 0 to +5v range.
Usually CV, but not always.

> black: DC coupled CV / audio

Bipolar signals - swing positive and negative in the
range -5v to +5v. Audio or control signals. May be
AC or DC coupled.

Very early Serges sometimes used Green for sync and
white for CV, and I've seen white used for the coupler
on SSGs (which swings -10v to +10v).


Steve

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Y.:P

Thank you for claryfing that Steve

cheers
Yulian

On 6-Dec-07, at 11:32 AM, Steve Ridley wrote:

No. Blue is DC coupled signals in the 0 to +5v range.
Usually CV, but not always.

> black: DC coupled CV / audio

Bipolar signals - swing positive and negative in the
range -5v to +5v. Audio or control signals. May be
AC or DC coupled.

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by riluttante

> > red: trigger
>
> Red = gate or trigger pulses in older systems. More recent
> systems use yellow for trigger.

FWIW, some recent systems still seem to use red for trigger/gates. My 2006 and 2007
panels use only red jacks for trigger/gates... No yellow in my system.

>
> > blue: AC coupled CV / audio
>
> No. Blue is DC coupled signals in the 0 to +5v range.
> Usually CV, but not always.

But all blue inputs respond to negative voltages too, right?

>
> > black: DC coupled CV / audio
>
> Bipolar signals - swing positive and negative in the
> range -5v to +5v. Audio or control signals. May be
> AC or DC coupled.

I know what AC and DC stand for, but can someone explain the functional difference in
the Serge system between these two?

I understand from the above description that a bipolar, -5v to +5v output may still be DC
coupled?

Thanks for the questions and answers, good to see some of the basics explained!



>
> Very early Serges sometimes used Green for sync and
> white for CV, and I've seen white used for the coupler
> on SSGs (which swings -10v to +10v).
>
>
> Steve
>

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Kim Hansen

On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:01 PM, Y.:P wrote:

>
>
> function that uses more than one color: trigger and gate inputs on the
> envelope generator: one is yellow and one's red.. according to Rex,
> they serve exactly the same function but use different colors for
> visual differentiation
>

On my ADSR the gate and trigger inputs have different functions..

Kim

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Y.:P

That was my initial thought as well, but when I asked Rex, he told me that both inputs may be used for the same function.. perhaps it was my extrapolation of his explaination..

In my experience, a trig input would usually be used to retrigger the EG once the gate is high

Y.

On 6-Dec-07, at 4:50 PM, Kim Hansen wrote:


On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:01 PM, Y.:P wrote:



function that uses more than one color: trigger and gate inputs on the envelope generator: one is yellow and one's red.. according to Rex,
they serve exactly the same function but use different colors for visual differentiation


On my ADSR the gate and trigger inputs have different functions..

Kim

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by James R. Coplin

Arp 2600, arp odyssey, cynthia’s envelopes, modcan 04a, and I think the e-mu modulars…

James R. Coplin

From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Carbon111
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:08 PM
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [SergeModular] Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

>On my ADSR the gate and trigger inputs have different functions..

On mine as well...mine functions as its described on page 5-7 in the Rich Gold Book:

http://www.carbon11 1.com/sergebook. zip

Yellow is trig in, red is gate in.

The trig in is a cool feature as it makes the ADSR behave unlike any other ADSR I have ever seen.

Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon11 1.com

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-06 by Carbon111

Cool to know, James.

I like to use a pulsed trig input to throw a nice "vertical voltage zig-zag" on a steady CV that gives me a very different response than a LFO-type-of-thing...

Serge is the only modular other than .com that I'm familiar with so its refreshing that this musically useful and unique ADSR functionality is out there in other units.

Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon111.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james@...>
>Date: 2007/12/06 Thu PM 05:18:01 CST
>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: Re: [SergeModular] Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

>
>Arp 2600, arp odyssey, cynthia’senvelopes, modcan 04a, and I think the e-mu modulars…

>James R. Coplin

>From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carbon111
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 20075:08 PM
>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Re: [SergeModular]Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

>>On myADSR the gate and trigger inputs have different functions..
>
>On mine as well...mine functions as its described on page 5-7 in the Rich GoldBook:
>
>http://www.carbon111.com/sergebook.zip
>
>Yellow is trig in, red is gate in.
>
>The trig in is a cool feature as it makes the ADSR behave unlike any other ADSRI have ever seen.
>
>Best Regards, James
>--
>http://www.carbon111.com
>

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings? AC and DC coupl

2007-12-06 by randaleem

Hi,

Thank you all for the answers so far. There seems to be some confusion
or overlap in some of these based on conflicts in answers? (No wonder
I've been wondering!)

I hope others will continue to answer to either confirm or contest the
answers so far given. It would be nice to have this info as accurate as
possible and posted somewhere readily available to all of us?

Meanwhile, I'll try to answer the questions posed below.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "riluttante" <riluttante@...> wrote:
>I know what AC and DC stand for, but can someone explain the
>functional difference in the Serge system between these two?

AC coupled means there is a capacitor at the input which the signal
must go through to be further processed. The functional effect of this
is that DC will not be passed. Therefore if you place an AC signal at
this input, its DC component (its offset from gnd, above OR below, or
both!) will be removed. This can help in "converting" CV's into "audio"
or "signals". It may also be used to eliminate a CV "carrier" from an
audio signal.

Words like signal, CV and Audio are necessarily limiting in a
discussion like this. When does a fast changing CV become a signal?
When does a slow moving "audio" signal become a CV? best to simply know
that there is a capacitor there, and then seek to learn enough about
capacitors to understand what will happen to various types of inputs
applied there.

Other capacitor effects may be present at AC coupled inputs, such as
input resistance changes due to capacitive reactance. (A fancy way of
saying that a capacitor acts like a resistor to a greater and lesser
degree depending upon its size in uF and the relationship between that
size and the input frequency.) Usually the circuit designer in most
general synth audio paths will attempt to minimise these kinds of "side
effects" for the expected signal frequencies to be encountered, by
careful selection of the capacitor size chosen for AC coupling. Other
times a capacitor may be chosen to take advantage of this effect, and
instead of attempting to be "transparent" to the signal going through,
it is acting as a consciously applied filter of the incoming signal.

DC coupled means there is no capacitor. Just a direct wire. Therefore
the DC component of the input is allowed to pass through maintaining
its "height" above or below ground. AC signals are not affected in any
way. This can cause problems when an AC signal is not centered about
ground equally. Because then the DC components do not cancel out and we
may hear their potential differences expressed as nasty clicks, pops,
or other (usually!) undesirable artifacts in the sound output. (Which
is one reason why we are given the option of AC coupling!)

>I understand from the above description that a bipolar, -5v to +5v
>output may still be DC coupled?

Yes. DC or AC coupling does not limit the inputs you can use, it
affects what gets passed on to the next stage in sound or CV processing.
Put a DC CV into an AC coupled input and nothing gets through, unless
the CV is changing fast enough in voltage level to be considered as AC
by the capacitor at the input. Conversely, if you have summed(mixed) CV
into your audio, and you put this through a DC coupled input; further
processing may not behave as expected due to the fact that the audio is
no longer centered around ground.

So there are reasons to use these AC and DC coupled inputs as intended,
and also reasons to go against their originally intended functions.
Just know that there is a capacitor on the AC coupled inputs and
experiment from there!

>Thanks for the questions and answers, good to see some of the basics
>explained!

Yes, thank you as well.

Kind regards, Randal

> > Very early Serges sometimes used Green for sync and
> > white for CV, and I've seen white used for the coupler
> > on SSGs (which swings -10v to +10v).
> > Steve

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings? AC and DC coupl

2007-12-06 by matthew carpenter

Thanks for that informative reply!

Just adding another source to the discussion. The Gold Book, in the 5Overall.pdf states that these are 'the three kinds of voltage':

"Audio Voltages: Black Jacks. 20 to 20,000 Hertz. Output voltage typically -2.5 to 2.5 volts. Audio voltages produced by blue jacks typically 0 to 5 volts. However, any voltage range, so long as it oscillates in the audio range can be used as an audio voltage. Black inputs are typically AC coupled, meaning that the slow or non-changing aspects of the voltage are blocked.

Control Voltages: Blue Jacks. Typically 0 to 500 Hertz but can be higher particularly in the case of FM and AM. Usually either -5 to 0 or 0 to 5 volts but can range over -10 to 10 volts. Blue inputs are DC coupled meaning they respond to the full range including negative voltages.

Trigger or Pulse Voltages: Red Jacks. Either 0 volts or 5 volts with a fast rising edge between 0 and 5 volts. Some red outputs can hold the high level indefinitely, others fall back to 0 in a set time. Red inputs are triggered by the rising edge and therefore other voltages, such as inverted saw waves, can be used to trigger. Some red inputs control certain functions of a module as long as the voltage remains HI. In these cases and 5 volt level will sustain the function."

Just to add to that, according to another list post, the CUPL OUT on the SSG is 0-10 volts.

The top picture in the serge-fans gallery shows an 80's Serge panel that was re-faced by STS. The jack's (different) color scheme remained.

Matt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 12/6/07, randaleem <randaleem@...> wrote:

Hi,

Thank you all for the answers so far. There seems to be some confusion
or overlap in some of these based on conflicts in answers? (No wonder
I've been wondering!)

I hope others will continue to answer to either confirm or contest the
answers so far given. It would be nice to have this info as accurate as
possible and posted somewhere readily available to all of us?

Meanwhile, I'll try to answer the questions posed below.

>In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "riluttante" <riluttante@...> wrote:
>I know what AC and DC stand for, but can someone explain the
>functional difference in the Serge system between these two?

AC coupled means there is a capacitor at the input which the signal
must go through to be further processed. The functional effect of this
is that DC will not be passed. Therefore if you place an AC signal at
this input, its DC component (its offset from gnd, above OR below, or
both!) will be removed. This can help in "converting" CV's into "audio"
or "signals". It may also be used to eliminate a CV "carrier" from an
audio signal.

Words like signal, CV and Audio are necessarily limiting in a
discussion like this. When does a fast changing CV become a signal?
When does a slow moving "audio" signal become a CV? best to simply know
that there is a capacitor there, and then seek to learn enough about
capacitors to understand what will happen to various types of inputs
applied there.

Other capacitor effects may be present at AC coupled inputs, such as
input resistance changes due to capacitive reactance. (A fancy way of
saying that a capacitor acts like a resistor to a greater and lesser
degree depending upon its size in uF and the relationship between that
size and the input frequency.) Usually the circuit designer in most
general synth audio paths will attempt to minimise these kinds of "side
effects" for the expected signal frequencies to be encountered, by
careful selection of the capacitor size chosen for AC coupling. Other
times a capacitor may be chosen to take advantage of this effect, and
instead of attempting to be "transparent" to the signal going through,
it is acting as a consciously applied filter of the incoming signal.

DC coupled means there is no capacitor. Just a direct wire. Therefore
the DC component of the input is allowed to pass through maintaining
its "height" above or below ground. AC signals are not affected in any
way. This can cause problems when an AC signal is not centered about
ground equally. Because then the DC components do not cancel out and we
may hear their potential differences expressed as nasty clicks, pops,
or other (usually!) undesirable artifacts in the sound output. (Which
is one reason why we are given the option of AC coupling!)

>I understand from the above description that a bipolar, -5v to +5v
>output may still be DC coupled?

Yes. DC or AC coupling does not limit the inputs you can use, it
affects what gets passed on to the next stage in sound or CV processing.
Put a DC CV into an AC coupled input and nothing gets through, unless
the CV is changing fast enough in voltage level to be considered as AC
by the capacitor at the input. Conversely, if you have summed(mixed) CV
into your audio, and you put this through a DC coupled input; further
processing may not behave as expected due to the fact that the audio is
no longer centered around ground.

So there are reasons to use these AC and DC coupled inputs as intended,
and also reasons to go against their originally intended functions.
Just know that there is a capacitor on the AC coupled inputs and
experiment from there!

>Thanks for the questions and answers, good to see some of the basics
>explained!

Yes, thank you as well.

Kind regards, Randal

> > Very early Serges sometimes used Green for sync and
> > white for CV, and I've seen white used for the coupler
> > on SSGs (which swings -10v to +10v).
> > Steve


Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-07 by James R. Coplin

What’s really funny is that I bitched about this “stupid” design for years on my 2600 and odyssey and used a y-cable to split the gate and use it as a trigger. It wasn’t until using it constantly for some time that I suddenly made the connection with why it was that way.

James

From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Carbon111
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:31 PM
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: Re: [SergeModular] Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

Cool to know, James.

I like to use a pulsed trig input to throw a nice "vertical voltage zig-zag" on a steady CV that gives me a very different response than a LFO-type-of- thing...

Serge is the only modular other than .com that I'm familiar with so its refreshing that this musically useful and unique ADSR functionality is out there in other units.

Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon11 1.com

>From: "James R. Coplin" <james@ticalun. net>
>Date: 2007/12/06 Thu PM 05:18:01 CST
>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>Subject: RE: Re: [SergeModular] Serge Jack colors and Their functional
meanings?

>
>Arp 2600, arp odyssey, cynthia’senvelopes, modcan 04a, and I think the
e-mu modulars…

>James R. Coplin

>From: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Carbon111
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 20075:08 PM
>To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
>Subject: Re: Re: [SergeModular] Serge Jack colors and Their functional
meanings?

>>On myADSR the gate and trigger inputs have different functions..
>
>On mine as well...mine functions as its described on page 5-7 in the Rich
GoldBook:
>
>http://www.carbon11 1.com/sergebook. zip
>
>Yellow is trig in, red is gate in.
>
>The trig in is a cool feature as it makes the ADSR behave unlike any other
ADSRI have ever seen.
>
>Best Regards, James
>--
>http://www.carbon11 1.com
>

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-07 by Steve Ridley

>> No. Blue is DC coupled signals in the 0 to +5v range.
>> Usually CV, but not always.

> But all blue inputs respond to negative voltages too, right?

Usually, but not always. I don't think the TWS responds to
negative CVs for example.

>>> black: DC coupled CV / audio

>> Bipolar signals - swing positive and negative in the
>> range -5v to +5v. Audio or control signals. May be
>> AC or DC coupled.

That should have been -2.5v to +2.5v....

> I understand from the above description that a bipolar, -5v to +5v output may still be DC
> coupled?

Yes. AC coupling is usually only found on inputs, but some
of the early modules - Noise, old Oscillator - had both AC
and DC coupled outputs. If you AC coupled the output of
a QUO for example, you wouldn't get much out of it at
low frequency.

I think the colour system developed back around 1973/4, and
as the modules developed, the colour codes didn't always
fit perfectly, so the definitions of the colours has become
quite loose. If you think blue usually CV, black usually
audio and red usually trigger/gate, you won't go far wrong.


Steve

Re: Serge Jack colors and Their functional meanings?

2007-12-08 by evetsterueb

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Steve Ridley <spr@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> ...I think the colour system developed back around 1973/4, and
> as the modules developed, the colour codes didn't always
> fit perfectly, so the definitions of the colours has become
> quite loose. If you think blue usually CV, black usually
> audio and red usually trigger/gate, you won't go far wrong.

More grist for the mill:

Gray was used for SSG coupler and NTO sync jacks back in the '80s. A
late '90s SSG I have uses purple for the coupler. Gate and Trigger in
the early '80s were both red, yellow trigger jacks came later (I've
got one from '97).

There is a similar thread on the Modcan group. Is somebody doing
research for an obscure doctoral thesis?

As a long time Serge fan I'm not giving up banana plugs and I'm used
to that color scheme so when I got some some Frac rack and Euro rack
modules I replaced the 1/8" jacks with banana jacks in the classic
Serge color scheme. Makes a big difference.

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