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Thread

Past Present Future ?

2008-01-01 by evetsterueb

The thread about prices for used panels morphed into a fascinating
trip down memory lane back to late 70's when the Serge system gelled
into more or less what it is today. Great stuff.

Now that we've got that thread of informed reflection under out belts
and have arrived at day one of 2008, the stage is set for that man
behind the curtain, Rex Probe, to address the congregation and let us
know what might be in store for us in the great oh-eight. Perhaps we
can send Barbara Walters to visit Rex and ask him about issues of the
day such as...

The through-hole/SMD quandry facing all small electronics builders.

The void created by the end of custom panel production. What about
those modules that are no longer available?

The prospect of digital creeping into the soup. We've seen some other
builders dabble in the arts of zero and one, is he going there? Some
say digital envelope generators are a slippery slope while others say
it matters not one bit.

Add your question to the thread. Rex, to his credit, is not one to put
out a lot of pre-release hype about things he's not committed to. We
on the other hand can speculate endlessly among ourselves ;-)

Here's another question for the community. How do we support the large
number of older panels that are out there? Last I checked, STS is not
inclined to rebuild or repair anything more than about 10 years old. I
guess most of us do our own repairs when necessary or know someone who
can do them but this is likely to become more of an issue as time goes
on. Are there any quirky parts we should buy a few of while the
through-hole stuff is still pretty plentiful.

Any thoughts on the rearrangement conundrum? I'm sorely tempted to cut
up and repackage a late '70s panel into a more modular configuration.
Frac rack frames are cheap and service bureaus make very nice panels
to spec. Has anyone done this? Want to compare notes? I mentioned it
to Rex once (what was I thinking?) a it must have sounded like
blasphemy to him. He told me to not put any reference to "Serge" on
the new panels. Somebody else suggested I'd be throwing away resale
value but I'm not interested in selling it off, quite the opposite.

That's enough grist for the mill. Have a great '08!

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-01 by Fernando de Izuzquiza

> Add your question to the thread.

This is my question to Rex:
Will 2008 be the year in wich all Serge schematics will see the light?

Thank you

Fernando, from Tumbuktu

> Rex, to his credit, is not one to put
> out a lot of pre-release hype about things he's not committed to.

But, I thought anything new was ever released since The Maker went...

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-02 by darkstr1746@comcast.net

Attachments :

Send BaBaWaWa to interview Rex? LMAO!! now there's a hot lick. You might have better luck asking Rex to give a five year weather forecast. You might get him to expound on Fats Domino and the birth of jump blues or maybe he might wax profound on the value of melting down some panels and turning them into little anodized aluminum statues of Conway Twitty. A glimpse into the future of panels? a interview perhaps? How about a interview with Elvis? LMAO!!
happy new year : )
jduval
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "evetsterueb" <synth@...>

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> The thread about prices for used panels morphed into a fascinating
> trip down memory lane back to late 70's when the Serge system gelled
> into more or less what it is today. Great stuff.
>
> Now that we've got that thread of informed reflection under out belts
> and have arrived at day one of 2008, the stage is set for that man
> behind the curtain, Rex Probe, to address the congregation and let us
> know what might be in store for us in the great oh-eight. Perhaps we
> can send Barbara Walters to visit Rex and ask him about issues of the
> day such as...
>
> The through-hole/SMD quandry facing all small electronics builders.
>
> The void created by the end of custom panel production. What about
> those modules that are no longer available?
>
> The prospect of digital creeping into the soup. We've seen some other
> builders dabble in the arts of zero and one, is he going there? Some
> say digital envelope generators are a slippery slope while others say
> it matters not one bit.
>
> Add your question to the thread. Rex, to his credit, is not one to put
> out a lot of pre-release hype about things he's not committed to. We
> on the other hand can speculate endlessly among ourselves ;-)
>
> Here's another question for the community. How do we support the large
> number of older panels that are out there? Last I checked, STS is not
> inclined to rebuild or repair anything more than about 10 years old. I
> guess most of us do our own repairs when necessary or know someone who
> can do them but this is likely to become more of an issue as time goes
> on. Are there any quirky parts we should buy a few of while the
> through-hole stuff is still pretty plentiful.
>
> Any thoughts on the rearrangement conundrum? I'm sorely tempted to cut
> up and repackage a late '70s panel into a more modular configuration.
> Frac rack frames are cheap and service bureaus make very nice panels
> to spec. Has anyone done this? Want to compare notes? I mentioned it
> to Rex once (what was I thinking?) a it must have sounded like
> blasphemy to him. He told me to not put any reference to "Serge" on
> the new panels. Somebody else suggested I'd be throwing away resale
> value but I'm not interested in selling it off, quite the opposite.
>
> That's enough grist for the mill. Have a great '08!
>
>

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-02 by Steve Ridley

> The prospect of digital creeping into the soup. We've seen some other
> builders dabble in the arts of zero and one, is he going there? Some
> say digital envelope generators are a slippery slope while others say
> it matters not one bit.

Rex has sensibly avoided making big changes to the original Serge
designs, concentrating on "quality issues" instead. I can't imagine
him going digital - it wouldn't really be a Serge Modular any more.

Redesigning with surface mount is equally unlikely, especially as
some parts are already discontinued and won't be available in SMD.
More likely, he'll continue mking classic Serge while he still has
a stock of parts.

> Here's another question for the community. How do we support the large
> number of older panels that are out there? Last I checked, STS is not
> inclined to rebuild or repair anything more than about 10 years old. I
> guess most of us do our own repairs when necessary or know someone who
> can do them but this is likely to become more of an issue as time goes
> on.

It would be a generous gesture if Rex released some of the
older docs for stuff he no longer supports. Also, the kit
instructions would be helpful as they give give the wiring
information - they useful if a wire falls off or if you
need to change worn out pots.

> Are there any quirky parts we should buy a few of while the
> through-hole stuff is still pretty plentiful.

Pretty plentiful? Don't bet on it. They're going fast.

Useful ICs include LF353N or TL072, LM3900N, LM324N, 4558.

Depending what modules you have, also consider CA3080, CA3130
(noise gen), CD4066 & CA3140 (ASR) LM3046 (PCO/NTO/PHA),
RC4136 (PHA). SAD1024 in the WAD. Lots of CMOS logic in the
TKB, sequencers and quantisers. Pop the hood and make a list.

But - chips don't die very often, so no need to panic.

> Any thoughts on the rearrangement conundrum? I'm sorely tempted to cut
> up and repackage a late '70s panel into a more modular configuration.
> Frac rack frames are cheap and service bureaus make very nice panels
> to spec. Has anyone done this?

Serge boards are 6" long. Frac rack panels are approx 5.25"
high, and I'm not sure how deep the racks are. Bananalogue
have done something similar, but designed their own boards
to fit.

> Want to compare notes? I mentioned it to Rex once (what was I thinking?)
> a it must have sounded like blasphemy to him. He told me to not put any
> reference to "Serge" on the new panels.

He might own the rights to STS and SMMS, but I'd be very
surprised if he holds the rights to the name "Serge".
I notice Bananalogue have the word "Serge" on their panels,
so maybe you could ask them if Rex's lawyers have been in
touch. Anyway, you'll have real Serge boards inside.
Sounds like sabre rattling to me - but I'm no lawyer.

> Somebody else suggested I'd be throwing away resale value but I'm not
> interested in selling it off, quite the opposite.

You could keep your options open by not throwing the old front panels
away...

Steve

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-02 by (i think you can figure that out)

Hi guys. Been awhile since I've posted, here goes:

Some comments:

Digital ADSRs, any digital technology used for the generation of
either sound or control voltages, is no more a slippery slop than
analog and does offer options you couldn't come close to realizing
otherwise. The key is in the ADCs and DACs. Lousy DACs have given
digital technology a bad name in the modular circles. Low resolution
ADCs likewise. It's doesn't have to be this way, although it is
expensive to do correctly. So IMHO digital isn't and never will be a
lowcost alternatve to analog, it's just an option which will let you
do things you could never imagine with analog. There will be some
coming in the next few months from various manufactures which
demonstrate this. (cough cough)

Regarding Rex releasing Schematics, personally I wouldn't (read:
don't). I got a bit of bad press form a guy on another mailist
recently about my unwillingness to do this, and have since noticed tht
the very same person who complained later posted a ROland module copy
he made...form schematics on the internet.

In regard to Serge however, one has to remember that even if he wanted
to they are not Rex's schematics to publish. They belong to Serge
Tcherepnin. Rex makes these instruments and makes them to a level of
excellence never seen before and for that he needs to be commended.
But he doesn't own the intelligent property. When Bananalogue sought
permission for the modules he's released he contacted Serge - as he
should have.

Regarding blowing ICs, from a guy who's fixed about 15 Serge systems I
can tell you that the number 1 failure is in fact 3080's and LM3900s.
The 3900s still in production. I use them myself on a couple of Plan
B modules as Norton Amplifiers have their benefits. The 3080 although
still plentiful, are not in production. Serge is a brilliant guy.
Conceptually incredible. His design chops improved over the years and
about the time of the NTO release and beyond things started to be real
solid. Some of the earlier modules, from the first two generations
however do have the potential of biting the bullet if outputs are
connected to other outputs. In later designs output protection was
such that it was much more tolerant. He started using a lot more
current limiters, especially where outputs and zeners were concerned.
And while I don't have the time to repair like I used to, it got to
the point where when I received one I'd check the system out, isolate
the modules which had problems and change the 3900s and 3080 before I
even began troubleshooting. About 80% of the time that fixed the
problems. The issue is, they would blow again for the same reason
they went the first time....outputs connected to outputs. Older Serge
modules do not like that at all, especially the Stepped and Smooth
Generator - which has had at least one blown on every single Serge
I've repaired. Other trends are the old Wave Multiplier Section 2 and
the Random Voltage Module - the trigger input specifically and The NTO
Triangle output.

Very repsectfully submitted,

- Peter Grenader

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Steve Ridley <spr@...> wrote:
>
>
> > The prospect of digital creeping into the soup. We've seen some other
> > builders dabble in the arts of zero and one, is he going there? Some
> > say digital envelope generators are a slippery slope while others say
> > it matters not one bit.
>
>
> Rex has sensibly avoided making big changes to the original Serge
> designs, concentrating on "quality issues" instead. I can't imagine
> him going digital - it wouldn't really be a Serge Modular any more.
>
>
> Redesigning with surface mount is equally unlikely, especially as
> some parts are already discontinued and won't be available in SMD.
> More likely, he'll continue mking classic Serge while he still has
> a stock of parts.
>
>
> > Here's another question for the community. How do we support the large
> > number of older panels that are out there? Last I checked, STS is not
> > inclined to rebuild or repair anything more than about 10 years old. I
> > guess most of us do our own repairs when necessary or know someone who
> > can do them but this is likely to become more of an issue as time goes
> > on.
>
>
> It would be a generous gesture if Rex released some of the
> older docs for stuff he no longer supports. Also, the kit
> instructions would be helpful as they give give the wiring
> information - they useful if a wire falls off or if you
> need to change worn out pots.
>
>
> > Are there any quirky parts we should buy a few of while the
> > through-hole stuff is still pretty plentiful.
>
>
> Pretty plentiful? Don't bet on it. They're going fast.
>
> Useful ICs include LF353N or TL072, LM3900N, LM324N, 4558.
>
> Depending what modules you have, also consider CA3080, CA3130
> (noise gen), CD4066 & CA3140 (ASR) LM3046 (PCO/NTO/PHA),
> RC4136 (PHA). SAD1024 in the WAD. Lots of CMOS logic in the
> TKB, sequencers and quantisers. Pop the hood and make a list.
>
>
> But - chips don't die very often, so no need to panic.
>
>
> > Any thoughts on the rearrangement conundrum? I'm sorely tempted to cut
> > up and repackage a late '70s panel into a more modular configuration.
> > Frac rack frames are cheap and service bureaus make very nice panels
> > to spec. Has anyone done this?
>
>
> Serge boards are 6" long. Frac rack panels are approx 5.25"
> high, and I'm not sure how deep the racks are. Bananalogue
> have done something similar, but designed their own boards
> to fit.
>
>
> > Want to compare notes? I mentioned it to Rex once (what was I
thinking?)
> > a it must have sounded like blasphemy to him. He told me to not
put any
> > reference to "Serge" on the new panels.
>
>
> He might own the rights to STS and SMMS, but I'd be very
> surprised if he holds the rights to the name "Serge".
> I notice Bananalogue have the word "Serge" on their panels,
> so maybe you could ask them if Rex's lawyers have been in
> touch. Anyway, you'll have real Serge boards inside.
> Sounds like sabre rattling to me - but I'm no lawyer.
>
> > Somebody else suggested I'd be throwing away resale value but I'm not
> > interested in selling it off, quite the opposite.
>
> You could keep your options open by not throwing the old front panels
> away...
>
>
>
> Steve
>

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-02 by (i think you can figure that out)

Anticipating a question which was just asked of me offline, yes I do
have certain Serge Schematics which I acquired for repairing purposes
but no, I can't circulate them. They are no more my property than
Rex's and there is an ethics issue in play here. When a repair tech
receives something like that it's for their eyes and assistance only.
It's totally uncool to circ things given to you for that reason
because it tends to go like a Paris Hilton sex video from that point.
The best example of this was a schematic for a Doepfer VCO which was
on a hidden tech-only page on their site. Someone found it and now
it's all over the place. Ditto for the Buchla 200 schematics.

Re: Past Present Future ?

2008-01-03 by amnesia

> . Lots of CMOS logic in the TKB
>

what should i get CMOS wise ?

>
>
>