SergeModular

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:

> From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...>
> Subject: PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
> To: "Serge Modular Users Group" <sergemodular@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 8:01 AM
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies
> about this problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here
> too, as there are some really good techs on this list that
> could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my
> ps4 and then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the
> -12volts green leds were lighting in all my 3 mboats that
> were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of
> the new mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new
> mboat and one more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd
> thing happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led
> lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the
> three mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that
> were powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/
> older panels powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put
> it in my ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked
> fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things
> together, i saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom!
> (only the green leds lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re
> powering them on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge
> (first the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and
> sometimes i power the serge on and does this strange thing
> (of the -12votls working only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge
> system to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground
> cables (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging
> some of them, the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have
> a lot of them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems
> fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo
> mixer mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has
> any problem, as this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit
> acts wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory
> Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
>
>
>

On Jun 3, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this
> problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are
> some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and
> then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds
> were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new
> mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one
> more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing
> happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three
> mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were
> powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels
> powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my
> ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i
> saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds
> lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them
> on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first
> the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power
> the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working
> only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system
> to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables
> (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them,
> the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of
> them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer
> mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as
> this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts
> wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Bill Sequeira <bill@...> wrote:

From: Bill Sequeira <bill@...>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:42 PM

Had a similar problem once with a '80s vintage panel, where only one
of the two LEDs would light up in my PS12. Same situation - different
panel combinations would work, but never all at the same time. To
make a long story short, there are two reasons why this may be
happening:

1. Power consumption exceeds capacity of the PS4 (not all panels
consume the same amount and you may be exceeding the power
requirements of the PS4)

2. A rare electrical issue with the panel/module in question - and
those may be very hard to track.

The simplest solution was to isolate the problem panel by assigning a
dedicated PSU to it - in my situation I used a PS2 for said panel -
and then grounded both PS2 and PS12 together. Problem solved.

Re: your new modules, maybe the issue is that you are exceeding the
power specs of the power supply, in which case upgrading the PSU may
be your solution.

Cheers -- Bill
____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Jun 3, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this
> problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are
> some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and
> then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds
> were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new
> mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one
> more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing
> happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three
> mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were
> powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels
> powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my
> ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i
> saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds
> lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them
> on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first
> the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power
> the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working
> only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system
> to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables
> (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them,
> the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of
> them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer
> mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as
> this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts
> wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them, the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>

--- On Fri, 6/5/09, data2action <fluxmonk@...> wrote:

From: data2action <fluxmonk@...>
Subject: [SergeModular] Re: PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 1:40 AM

Sounds like the ps4 is getting overtaxed on power-up. the telltale sign is that sometimes cycling the power will get it to go. the bypass capacitors on each module momentarily draw more current when you first apply power to the system. what's probably happening is that the combination of all the capacitors on all the modules draw too much juice initially and bog down the supply. when you quickly cycle the system, that initial draw is lower the second time and gives the PS a chance to get up to speed.

ken stone has a board for a power supply delay (http://www.cgs. synth.net/ modules/cgs63_ psd.html), which is one approach to solving this. i myself have always liked to have plenty of "headroom" on the powerlines, so i usually just add another PS.

always one more thing to buy...

b

--- In SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_ 2000@...> wrote:
>
>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them, the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>

--- On Fri, 6/5/09, Bill Sequeira <bill@...> wrote:

From: Bill Sequeira <bill@...>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 5:22 AM

No worries! Glad to hear you got it "working".

Using a "panel" as a measure of current draw does not work as a unit of measurement - panels are NOT equal and some panels will draw more current than others - e.g. heavily-laden oscillator panels. So a PS12 will go as far as it can depending on your particular panel configuration. When it comes to power, always *always* over-spec instead of running close to the limits of your PSU.

Re: flipping green vs. orange LEDs, not sure what the issue could be. Do you have older '70s or '80s panels in your system? Know these pre-STS panels had very uneven production standards that could cause random electrical issues. The issue may not be your new M-module but rather the addition of one more panel taxing current draw causing one of the older panels to act up randomly.

Cheers -- Bill

____________ _________ _________ _________ ___

Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Jun 4, 2009, at 6:20 AM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

hi Bill, :-)

thanks for your reply!

i found today a combination of two mboats and one tkb that works fine with my ps4 all the time.

so, i left my ps12 powering 6 mboats, one old tkb, and 4 80's serge panels.

the ps12 also works fine now, But, i noticed that, after connecting all the ground cables one after the other, when i connected one specific groundcable to a patchpanel module, then the ps12 started acting wierd about 50% of the times i powered it up (the -12 volts led only lighting problem...).

so, i removed that specific ground cable (maybe it creates some wierd ground loop hat may be ptutting more load to the ps12...?) and now all my mboats work ok, without the need to buy an extra ps2a.

but, i'm still waiting from reply from Rex to tell me if an extra ps2a would be a simple solution.

we'll see...

another important wierd finding: if it was a matter of psu overload, then the ps12 should ALWAYS not work correctly, right?. but my yesterday tests showed that, sometimes, i powered it on and it worked fine and then, some other times, it worked erraticaly (with only the green -12 volts led lighting).
so....? maybe it is a ground connections problem..?

anyway, when i have found any final solution i'll let the group know...

btw, shouldn't the ps12 be able to always power correctly 11 panels?
is there any chance that a ps12 can only power 10 panels, if the panels have specific module combinations?

and one more wierd finding: actually, in detail, the erratic operation of the ps12 was that the green -12volts led was only lighting to the ps12 itself and to 4 of the mboats, But in my two older mboats, only the Orange +12 votls led was lighting!! go figure...

thanks,
best regards,
Bakis.


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Bill Sequeira <bill@axonhillock. com> wrote:

From: Bill Sequeira <bill@axonhillock. com>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:42 PM

Had a similar problem once with a '80s vintage panel, where only one
of the two LEDs would light up in my PS12. Same situation - different
panel combinations would work, but never all at the same time. To
make a long story short, there are two reasons why this may be
happening:

1. Power consumption exceeds capacity of the PS4 (not all panels
consume the same amount and you may be exceeding the power
requirements of the PS4)

2. A rare electrical issue with the panel/module in question - and
those may be very hard to track.

The simplest solution was to isolate the problem panel by assigning a
dedicated PSU to it - in my situation I used a PS2 for said panel -
and then grounded both PS2 and PS12 together. Problem solved.

Re: your new modules, maybe the issue is that you are exceeding the
power specs of the power supply, in which case upgrading the PSU may
be your solution.

Cheers -- Bill
____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Jun 3, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this
> problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are
> some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and
> then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds
> were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new
> mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one
> more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing
> happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three
> mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were
> powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels
> powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my
> ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i
> saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds
> lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them
> on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first
> the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power
> the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working
> only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system
> to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables
> (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them,
> the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of
> them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer
> mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as
> this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts
> wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> hi Bill, :-)
>
> yes, i have 4 80's serge panels. (one of them has a preamp module with a non-working envelope follower section)
> anyway, i decided to get an extra ps4 (to connect two m-boats to it), to get some load of the ps12.
>
> thanks again,
> best regards, :-)
> Bakis.

On Jun 5, 2009, at 1:07 AM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

hi Bill, :-)

yes, i have 4 80's serge panels. (one of them has a preamp module with a non-working envelope follower section)
anyway, i decided to get an extra ps4 (to connect two m-boats to it), to get some load of the ps12.

thanks again,
best regards, :-)
Bakis.


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Fri, 6/5/09, Bill Sequeira <bill@...> wrote:

From: Bill Sequeira <bill@...>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 5:22 AM

No worries! Glad to hear you got it "working".

Using a "panel" as a measure of current draw does not work as a unit of measurement - panels are NOT equal and some panels will draw more current than others - e.g. heavily-laden oscillator panels. So a PS12 will go as far as it can depending on your particular panel configuration. When it comes to power, always *always* over-spec instead of running close to the limits of your PSU.

Re: flipping green vs. orange LEDs, not sure what the issue could be. Do you have older '70s or '80s panels in your system? Know these pre-STS panels had very uneven production standards that could cause random electrical issues. The issue may not be your new M-module but rather the addition of one more panel taxing current draw causing one of the older panels to act up randomly.

Cheers -- Bill

____________ _________ _________ _________ ___

Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Jun 4, 2009, at 6:20 AM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

hi Bill, :-)

thanks for your reply!

i found today a combination of two mboats and one tkb that works fine with my ps4 all the time.

so, i left my ps12 powering 6 mboats, one old tkb, and 4 80's serge panels.

the ps12 also works fine now, But, i noticed that, after connecting all the ground cables one after the other, when i connected one specific groundcable to a patchpanel module, then the ps12 started acting wierd about 50% of the times i powered it up (the -12 volts led only lighting problem...).

so, i removed that specific ground cable (maybe it creates some wierd ground loop hat may be ptutting more load to the ps12...?) and now all my mboats work ok, without the need to buy an extra ps2a.

but, i'm still waiting from reply from Rex to tell me if an extra ps2a would be a simple solution.

we'll see...

another important wierd finding: if it was a matter of psu overload, then the ps12 should ALWAYS not work correctly, right?. but my yesterday tests showed that, sometimes, i powered it on and it worked fine and then, some other times, it worked erraticaly (with only the green -12 volts led lighting).
so....? maybe it is a ground connections problem..?

anyway, when i have found any final solution i'll let the group know...

btw, shouldn't the ps12 be able to always power correctly 11 panels?
is there any chance that a ps12 can only power 10 panels, if the panels have specific module combinations?

and one more wierd finding: actually, in detail, the erratic operation of the ps12 was that the green -12volts led was only lighting to the ps12 itself and to 4 of the mboats, But in my two older mboats, only the Orange +12 votls led was lighting!! go figure...

thanks,
best regards,
Bakis.


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Bill Sequeira <bill@axonhillock. com> wrote:

From: Bill Sequeira <bill@axonhillock. com>
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] PSU wierdness happening in my Serge!
To: SergeModular@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 2:42 PM

Had a similar problem once with a '80s vintage panel, where only one
of the two LEDs would light up in my PS12. Same situation - different
panel combinations would work, but never all at the same time. To
make a long story short, there are two reasons why this may be
happening:

1. Power consumption exceeds capacity of the PS4 (not all panels
consume the same amount and you may be exceeding the power
requirements of the PS4)

2. A rare electrical issue with the panel/module in question - and
those may be very hard to track.

The simplest solution was to isolate the problem panel by assigning a
dedicated PSU to it - in my situation I used a PS2 for said panel -
and then grounded both PS2 and PS12 together. Problem solved.

Re: your new modules, maybe the issue is that you are exceeding the
power specs of the power supply, in which case upgrading the PSU may
be your solution.

Cheers -- Bill
____________ _________ _________ _________ ___
Bill Sequeira, PHD

On Jun 3, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

>
> hello list,
>
> i have already emailed Rex and waiting for his replies about this
> problem of mine, but i thought i could ask here too, as there are
> some really good techs on this list that could also help me:
>
>
> 'i got the 'dual osc', 'stereo mixer' mboat today...
>
> after connecting it (together with two more mboats) to my ps4 and
> then i turned on the ps4, i saw that only the -12volts green leds
> were lighting in all my 3 mboats that were powered from the ps4!
>
> of course i got worried and turned the ps4 off.
> after various experiments with checking the internal psd of the new
> mboat i got today, i saw that the ps4 with the new mboat and one
> more mboat worked fine!
> but when i was connecting the third mboat then that wierd thing
> happened again! ( only the green -12 volts led lighting).
> so, i thought that maybe this specific combination of the three
> mboats did not wokred well with my ps4. (why?)
> so, i decided to take an mboat from the other mboats that were
> powered from the ps12 of mine. (FYI, i have 11 mboats/ older panels
> powered from a ps12)
>
> so, i changed this mboat removed it from the ps12 and put it in my
> ps4 psd.
> so, now my ps4 was powering three mboats and all worked fine!
>
> so, after connecting all grounds and putting all things together, i
> saw that the ps12 had the exact same symptom! (only the green leds
> lighting of the -12votls)!
>
> but, it gets more weird!
> after powering off the ps12 and the ps4, and then re powering them
> on everything worked fine!
>
> so, now i am in a state that sometimes i power on my serge (first
> the ps12 and then the ps4) and it works fine and sometimes i power
> the serge on and does this strange thing (of the -12votls working
> only!)
>
> i really do not know what to do because i want my big serge system
> to always work fine.
>
> i thought that this problem maybe has to do with the ground cables
> (that now i have many of!) but even when unplugging some of them,
> the same thing kept happening sometimes.
>
> it is really crazy... i do not know what to do...
>
> i checked the grounding of some of my power strips (i have a lot of
> them connected in a serial manner!!) and seems fine...
>
> please help anyone?
>
> all these started today, after adding the dual osc, stereo mixer
> mboat to my system. BUT, i do not think that it has any problem, as
> this mboat in its own works fine!
>
> any ideas?
>
> maybe my system is now TOO big and the grounding circuit acts
> wierd...?
>
> help please!
>
> what to check?
>
> many thanks in advance!
> best regards,
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>