Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-09 by therealleeboy

Attachments :

I’m helping the widow of pioneering British electro-acoustic composer Tim Souster with his archive and could do with some help getting the current resale value of his Serge system. This was built by Tim himself around 1980. It’s six panels in a powered flight case. I’ve attached a pic of the whole system and listed the modules below. We haven’t powered it up yet but it was working last time Tim used it in the early 90s.

Here’s a picture of Tim at work on his Serge: http://timsouster.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/TS_Keele_Serge1.jpg

Plenty more info on Tim on the site: http://timsouster.com/

Any ideas what it might be worth now ?

Panel 1

New Timbral Oscialltor

Precision VCO

Triple Waveshaper

Wave Multipliers

Extended Range VCF

Active Processor

Extended ADSR

Dual Transient Generator

Panel 2

Dual Transient Generator

Extended ADSR

Active Processor

Wave Multipliers

Audio Mixer

Resonent EQ

Dual Processor

Custom MIDI / CV interface for use with Kenton

Panel 3

New Timbral Oscialltor

Precision VCO

Dual Analog Shift Register

Variable Q VCF

Dual Universal Slope Generator

Dual Random Generator

Noise Source

Panel 4

Pitch & Envelope Follower

Audio Mixer

Variable Bandwidth Filter

Dual Phaser

Quad Channel

Adapter

Panel 5

New Timbral Oscialltor

Precision VCO

Ring

VCA

Variable Slope VCF

Quad VCA

Smooth Function Generator

Panel 6

Touch Activated Keyboard Sequencer

Attachments

TimSouster_SergeSystem.jpeg

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system [1 Attachment]

2016-09-09 by Prosper Prodaniuk

Id place max value at about 8-9k USD. Some servicing mostly likely will need to be done, Serge sales are a little slow right now and a lot of these modules are available DIY now.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Sep 9, 2016 13:29, "tim@... [SergeModular]" <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from tim@... [SergeModular] included below]
I’m helping the widow of pioneering British electro-acoustic composer Tim Souster with his archive and could do with some help getting the current resale value of his Serge system. This was built by Tim himself around 1980. It’s six panels in a powered flight case. I’ve attached a pic of the whole system and listed the modules below. We haven’t powered it up yet but it was working last time Tim used it in the early 90s.

Here’s a picture of Tim at work on his Serge: http://timsouster.com/wp- content/uploads/2013/01/TS_ Keele_Serge1.jpg

Plenty more info on Tim on the site: http://timsouster.com/

Any ideas what it might be worth now ?

Panel 1
New Timbral Oscialltor
Precision VCO
Triple Waveshaper
Wave Multipliers
Extended Range VCF
Active Processor
Extended ADSR
Dual Transient Generator

Panel 2
Dual Transient Generator
Extended ADSR
Active Processor
Wave Multipliers
Audio Mixer
Resonent EQ
Dual Processor
Custom MIDI / CV interface for use with Kenton

Panel 3
New Timbral Oscialltor
Precision VCO
Dual Analog Shift Register
Variable Q VCF
Dual Universal Slope Generator
Dual Random Generator
Noise Source

Panel 4
Pitch & Envelope Follower
Audio Mixer
Variable Bandwidth Filter
Dual Phaser
Quad Channel
Adapter

Panel 5
New Timbral Oscialltor
Precision VCO
Ring
VCA
Variable Slope VCF
Quad VCA
Smooth Function Generator

Panel 6
Touch Activated Keyboard Sequencer

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-09 by freq63

6 full panels of original serge design (to be serviced or not) for 8-9k?
Makes 1 panel for 1.3k.

I agree that there are more modules or panels called "serge" on the market today, but these are original panels.
Sure it will depend on how the boards look like, the corrosion etc, but this seems to me like very very low, no matter how. Mostly for all panels with NTO, PCO, the TKB panel...

Why not try with 1 panel on ebay for 2k minimum bid, with "needs service" in the comment, to see what happens. I can imagine it sells for more.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-09 by Prosper Prodaniuk

You might get more but its hard to say without it being tested. Other than a WAD and Freq Shift everything Serge seems to be there.

Are there some dead jacks, pots? You dont really know. If I was asked to help with this the first thing Id do is power it up, get some cables going so you could give a potential idea to any buyer of how much maintenance might be needed. I bought a panel from this era for 1k USD a couple of years ago on Ebay and it took another 600 USD to Kevin Lightner plus shipping both ways to get it working proper but it still has some scratchy pots and jacks that I have to twist the cable in sometimes to make a proper connection. To get Kevin to fix all of those would have cost a lot more money.

9k USD is 1500 per panel. Thats pretty darn good with one of the panels being a TKB and all of this being built DIY by the original owner. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing when it comes to vintage Serge. Some pics of the inside would help. On Ebay/Paypal 9k becomes 7800 after Ebay and paypal fees. Would a buyer even be had on Ebay for 9k USD. I dont think so. Its hard to sell complete systems.

A few years ago this could have sold for more but with all the clones everywhere now and eurorack mania the market for something like this is very small as a whole. Slightly larger seperately. Are there bud boxes for every panel or are they custom fitted. These are the kinds of questions that need to be answered.

Being in the UK/Europe is an advantage though. Might find a buyer not wanting to deal with customs/shipping etc. Looks great though. Try locally in the UK first for awhile then online internationally if no one bites. Worst case scenario you have to break it up and ship a little piece here and there. Maybe consider trading it for more sellable gear. I have done that before with more obscure things with much success.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 3:17 PM, freq63@... [SergeModular] <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

6 full panels of original serge design (to be serviced or not) for 8-9k?
Makes 1 panel for 1.3k.

I agree that there are more modules or panels called "serge" on the market today, but these are original panels.
Sure it will depend on how the boards look like, the corrosion etc, but this seems to me like very very low, no matter how. Mostly for all panels with NTO, PCO, the TKB panel...

Why not try with 1 panel on ebay for 2k minimum bid, with "needs service" in the comment, to see what happens. I can imagine it sells for more.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-10 by freq63

Afaik all Serge "kits" were made and tested at Serge. The PCBs were populated and tested. Not DIY. The DIY part was "only" making and mounting to the panels, pots, knobs etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

We see here that opinions about value differe.
I know that I'd offer much more than 9k if I did not have my Paperface from '78.

$1500/panel being "pretty damn good" is your opinion. Mine is different, even if, as mentionned the market changed. But as we know so is ebay too, or auctions would not even exist (+ I said 2$ at in bid rate cause you have to include the fees to this price anyway!).
I'd sell them separately.

There's the historical value and the rarity that in my humble opinion cannot be ignored.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-10 by freq63

You could ask people at http://www.tonetweakers.com/used/serge_modular.1.htm

how much they're selling this unserviced 4 panels system and you'll get an more precise idea.

It depends of course of the exact build year of your system.

They should be stickers on the pcbs with dates I guess.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-10 by Gavin Pykerman

How about advertising it on Muffwiggler? A lot of wigglers are into DIY and wouldn’t feel daunted by having to replace pots/carry out servicing etc. The only problem is that you need to have 100 posts to advertise in the for sale/trade sub-forum.

From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 10 September 2016 00:37
To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

You might get more but its hard to say without it being tested. Other than a WAD and Freq Shift everything Serge seems to be there.

Are there some dead jacks, pots? You dont really know. If I was asked to help with this the first thing Id do is power it up, get some cables going so you could give a potential idea to any buyer of how much maintenance might be needed. I bought a panel from this era for 1k USD a couple of years ago on Ebay and it took another 600 USD to Kevin Lightner plus shipping both ways to get it working proper but it still has some scratchy pots and jacks that I have to twist the cable in sometimes to make a proper connection. To get Kevin to fix all of those would have cost a lot more money.

9k USD is 1500 per panel. Thats pretty darn good with one of the panels being a TKB and all of this being built DIY by the original owner. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing when it comes to vintage Serge. Some pics of the inside would help. On Ebay/Paypal 9k becomes 7800 after Ebay and paypal fees. Would a buyer even be had on Ebay for 9k USD. I dont think so. Its hard to sell complete systems.

A few years ago this could have sold for more but with all the clones everywhere now and eurorack mania the market for something like this is very small as a whole. Slightly larger seperately. Are there bud boxes for every panel or are they custom fitted. These are the kinds of questions that need to be answered.

Being in the UK/Europe is an advantage though. Might find a buyer not wanting to deal with customs/shipping etc. Looks great though. Try locally in the UK first for awhile then online internationally if no one bites. Worst case scenario you have to break it up and ship a little piece here and there. Maybe consider trading it for more sellable gear. I have done that before with more obscure things with much success.

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 3:17 PM, freq63@... [SergeModular] <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

6 full panels of original serge design (to be serviced or not) for 8-9k?
Makes 1 panel for 1.3k.

I agree that there are more modules or panels called "serge" on the market today, but these are original panels.
Sure it will depend on how the boards look like, the corrosion etc, but this seems to me like very very low, no matter how. Mostly for all panels with NTO, PCO, the TKB panel...

Why not try with 1 panel on ebay for 2k minimum bid, with "needs service" in the comment, to see what happens. I can imagine it sells for more.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-10 by buchla300

I sold my 6 panel in need of full service for $12k a few years ago.

I'd pay that for this ( if I could) anyday.

But I would suggest muffwigglers forum too.

Re: Help with valuation of Tim Souster's Serge system

2016-09-10 by cg_synth

You can't use Rex's elevated prices as any sort of guide.

A couple years back, a 12 panel system of similar vintage including WADs 9 panels of Serge and 3 of Driscoll from a known musician/composer sold for about AU$15000.
I picked up two panels from another significant player at US$1500 a piece, and that included two WADs and two Frequency shifters, and they had been given a partial service by KBF.
Despite my love of Paperface Serges, those are worth even less.
The DIY ones, as mentioned, had the PCBs built and tested at Serge, but the wiring is very variable and can have a significant effect. On several occasions I have found unsoldered wires in completed Serges.
So, how much is it worth?
Famous User premium $???? Will you find a fan that cares and will pay extra for it?
General worth of an old 6 panel system. The 8-9k US$ sounds about right to me, assuming it hasn't been serviced.

And most of the new Serge "DIY" stuff is just as genuine as anything else being produced nowadays. Serge is directly involved, which isn't the case with STS.