Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

Hi,

it's an interesting discussion and feel free to continue it in a 
civilized manner. But I want to mention that I know where a lot of the 
hesitation comes from. I have had a lot of help from fellow list members 
and I do my best to share knowledge and/or documents where available.
But, as pointed out, we have had a few "leeches" sucking up what was 
available in the community and then selling it off on Ebay for hefty 
sums. Schematics, eprom images of sounds, OS etc. I can understand that 
pisses quite a few people off. Not because they own the rights to 
anything but that they've spent hard earned cash and a lot of time to 
collect and make it available.
Also, if you happen to own a copy (or original) of a vintage schematic 
that's rare, it's also a great thing to use in trades the one day you 
need a specific service manual or schematic. I have done this myself 
when the Pearl Syncussion schematic was rare as hen's teeth and I 
happened to have it. I traded it for the Yamaha SS-30, which was so rare 
even Yamaha Japan was missing out.
I know the Pearl is out there now, even cleaned up after the re-issue by 
the Human Comparator. I don't know if my SS-30 still is rare... I think 
so. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so. I have helped many 
with Q's regarding the SS-30.
And regarding the name, Dave managed to stop some of the use so he has 
clearly proven he's not uninterested in name nor legacy. I was one of 
those asked to give written testemony in the battle against Guitar Centre.
Patrice's views are his, but I know he has good reason for many of them. 
I bet he'll share them if he wants to...

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se

---

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Den 2017-01-16 kl. 17:20, skrev hr.public@... [Simmons_Drums]:
>
>
> Patrice, reading your text and looking at domain name your mail are sent
> from seems somewhat ironic J
>
>
>
> From collectors point of view one could argue that the original
> schematics are more valuable than the SDX itself, as it most likely are
> more rare. Therefore it should never ever be copied as it could hurt the
> collector value J
>
>
>
> But my serious thoughts on the matter. To my knowledge Dave are no
> longer here to collect on the intellectual property of these schematics.
> Nor do the new brand name owner actively supporting any of the old gear.
> I don\u2019t know if they actually own any rights other than the name? And to
> my knowledge there are no longer any legal patented design luring inside
> these papers. Therefore normal copyrights for printed/ published content
> would apply.
>
>
>
> Which mean that we are not allowed to sell copies of our version of the
> schematics. Which in practical terms means any faulty SDX is a brick if
> one not already have access to the schematic as Dave won\u2019t respond to
> sell you a copy.
>
> However, in most countries in the world we will be allowed to lend our
> copy to anyone of our liking. And they can legally take copies for
> personal use.
>
>
>
> Here in Norway a copy shop settled a case where they tried to help out
> students in a pinch. What they did were to copy a book that were out of
> print and sell it at normal copy price, as if the students met up in the
> shop and copied it them self. What initially gave them trouble where
> they for practical reason had them in stock (this before scan and print
> on demand where available).
>
> Reason they got away with it where that the copy right holder had no
> plans to reprint the book and the university had made the bummer to
> include the book in the students required reading list for that
> semester. Low volume, for education reason only, no danger of repetition
> as university removed the requirement and practical thinking won the case.
>
>
>
> So practical thinking applied. If one where to sell schematics for
> profit one could be in danger of being sued for money from copy right
> holder. If there are no money to be had then documented loss are to be
> taken into consideration. Personally I don\u2019t think SDX have much to
> offer regarding hardware design worth copying these days of low cost DSP
> chips. Not really being a blockbuster movie I really doubt anyone
> interested in this schematic are able to hurt Simmons brand owner or
> Dave in an attempt to copy and sell this design. Interested parties
> either own a unit in need of repair, or are interested for education
> purposes. Both I personally think we should endorse to help keep an
> historic piece of electronic kit alive, and help educating members of
> the world can only make it better place for all of us moving on to an
> enlightening future.
>
>
>
> Now, should we assume everyone have the time or even want to scan and
> upload 140 pages long manual for free? Of course not. Some members here
> and other forums that have access to these schematics make they living
> from repair jobs. Of course they should not work for free. Some of them
> even get so annoyed by these requests they stop they\u2019re membership.
> Other learn to live with it course they benefit from those sharing to
> keep they own cost down and make better profits on the jobs they do get.
>
> How many SDX jobs would a repair shop in 2017 expect to see over the
> next decade? Probably zero, other than the one sitting on the bench
> right now. All documentation cost has to go into this job alone.
>
> Many repair shops would tell the customer schematic are not available,
> but they\u2019re willing to take on the job if customer source it themselves.
> Shortcut to any ethical concern right? And a valid reason for many
> people joining mailing lists and forums with requests they normally
> wouldn\u2019t attend.
>
>
>
> So who are these requester for free Simmons schematics and sounds? Back
> in the day most of them probably where people making partial or all
> their livelihood from expensive tools like the SDS and SDX. Modern
> sounds and schematics had intellectual value that Dave used to put food
> on his table. That is not the case anymore.
>
> These days most requests come from collectors, hobbyist and wannabees in
> a world where musicians rarely can make a living from recording music.
> Any high functional professional musician actually making money these
> days use a sampling library or simulator to create these vintage sounds.
>
>
>
> My impression there are several contributing members on this list that
> have reservation regarding sharing publicly. If they lost business by
> sharing I can understand they hurt, but if that business where selling
> Simmons original sounds they\u2019re morality is somewhat flawed if you ask me.
>
>
>
> My practical take on this. I\u2019ve enjoyed numerus free websites and
> schematics over the past two decades. Admittedly only a few of them had
> they\u2019re Donate button pressed I early on got inspired to share back to
> the community when I could. I guess all of us have benefited from those
> that do share. In some cultures one owes to them to pass on what one
> learned, while others get insulted when one do as they claim
> intellectually property even when its origin are not their own.
>
>
>
> So to you question Patrice, I guess to each his own
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_each_his_own
>
>
>
> I will bluntly take this opportunity to ask if anyone are willing share
> SDS7 original eprom BIN files with me?
>
> I promise never to make a No.1 hit song using these sounds (or any other
> sound for that matter)
>
> I promise I very rarely will use the sounds, they mostly have historic
> value to me, I few hours of fun for recreation purposes
>
> I promise I never Share if not explicit allowed
>
> I promise I never Publicly Share it if not explicit allowed
>
> I promise If sharing is allowed I\u2019ll give Credit Only if explicit
> Requested, else you will be Anonymous
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans