SynthModules

at the risk of being naive, would it be worth while to create a download site for PSIM programs in their original form, with whatever licensing/legalese the author is most comfortable with?  I'd be willing to host such a site, or create a new yahoo group specifically for the purpose, if folks feel that files posted to the SynthModules site are at risk.

andrew, i'll definately take you up on the tutorial offer at AHMW, if you're willing.

bbob

Hi
  I have wanted a psim-1 for a long time now.
 I missed the first offering(a bit of luck?) 
 Does anyone have any info on the design that
 they would be willing to share with me?
 I think a new yahoo group would be a good idea.
 Jeri

-----Original Message-----
From: rdrake <rdrake@data2action.com>
To: SynthModules@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:49:11 -0500
Subject: RE: [SynthModules] Now what?


at the risk of being naive, would it be worth while to create a download site 
for PSIM programs in their original form, with whatever licensing/legalese the 
author is most comfortable with?  I'd be willing to host such a site, or create 
a new yahoo group specifically for the purpose, if folks feel that files posted 
to the SynthModules site are at risk.

andrew, i'll definately take you up on the tutorial offer at AHMW, if you're 
willing.

bbob


Be sure to check out the primary Web site at:
http://www.SynthModules.com
  
Yahoo! Groups Links



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone.  The files posted here are *not* at risk.  Has anyone
even read the GPL I proposed?  The files are FREE to use and use parts
of, expand on, create new works based on it, etc... but this protects
your code from *commercial* use.  I contacted everyone who had
contributed code before I put it under the GPL.  Please read it and
let me know if you are misunderstanding something.

Yes, I'm working on the modules and am trying to get at least two
shipped per week.  If you have any questions regarding your module,
email me privately.  I do answer my emails.

All these messages the last two days have been really upsetting.  I
shipped a LOT of modules and haven't heard a word from most of those
folks.  The majority of the private emails I'm receiving are very
positive.  It seems all the negativity is spawning here and I need to
know what to do to put an end to the bashing.

*** I am trying to wrap this up as quickly as possible and WILL have
ALL the remaining modules shipped within the next 30 days.  That is a
PROMISE. ***

I haven't gone away.  Those of you waiting on modules... your module
is safe and sound right now on my kitchen table.  I'll upload a photo
of the remaining modules in their current state as soon as I can.  I
went home for lunch today (first time in almost two years) and spent
that time (all 30 minutes of it I had) working on the modules.  Yes, I
am working a LOT of hours but I am committed to finishing this run of
PSIM-1 modules and getting back into the swing of things.

So, the issues currently:

Shipping status: currently about two per week.

GPL on the code: Please read the license.  I've had almost a dozen
people contact me now regarding using the code for commercial
industrial designs they are working on.  This is not what I intended.
 I'm trying to PROTECT our code by using the GPL.  Does anyone have a
better solution?  How about the Creative Commons licensing?  Thoughts?
 I've spent a LOT of hours reworking the programs (adding the GPL
header, contributing coders, cleaning up mistakes, making them more
consistant, etc.).  This has taken a lot of time (something I honestly
do not have a lot of) and if I need to rework it again for a CC
license or ??? I can.  Let's hear your thoughts.  But please, *first*
read the GPL.  

Grant, I spoke to you about adding the GPL *before* I did so. 
Remember?  It does NOT in any way make it so the code isn't FREE.  If
code is placed into the "Public Domain", it is FREE to use in
commercial products and I do *not* want to see people start SELLING
PSIM-1 programs like ROMs for the Mini-Wave.  That is totally against
everyting I intended from the beginning.  I want the PSIM-1 community
to work together to develop new ideas and programs (virtual modules).
 Also, Grant... you have my phone number.  Why haven't you called if
you have issues with this or emailed me privately?  Let's talk soon.

I hope this clears up some things...

Best regards,

Brice
http://www.SynthModules.com

> GPL on the code: Please read the license.  I've had almost a dozen
> people contact me now regarding using the code for commercial
> industrial designs they are working on.  This is not what I intended.

But it is what the people who wrote most of it intended.

>  I'm trying to PROTECT our code by using the GPL.  Does anyone have a
> better solution?  How about the Creative Commons licensing?  Thoughts?
>  I've spent a LOT of hours reworking the programs (adding the GPL
> header, contributing coders, cleaning up mistakes, making them more
> consistant, etc.).  This has taken a lot of time (something I honestly
> do not have a lot of) and if I need to rework it again for a CC
> license or ??? I can.  Let's hear your thoughts.  But please, *first*
> read the GPL.  
> 

I do not care if it gets used commercially. Your tried to use it commercially.

You have no intellectual property regarding the PSIM electrical design or any software not 
written by you personally.

> Grant, I spoke to you about adding the GPL *before* I did so. 
> Remember?  It does NOT in any way make it so the code isn't FREE.  If
> code is placed into the "Public Domain", it is FREE to use in
> commercial products and I do *not* want to see people start SELLING
> PSIM-1 programs like ROMs for the Mini-Wave.  That is totally against
> everyting I intended from the beginning.  I want the PSIM-1 community
> to work together to develop new ideas and programs (virtual modules).
>  Also, Grant... you have my phone number.  Why haven't you called if
> you have issues with this or emailed me privately?  Let's talk soon.
> 

GPL is fine, what is not fine is your claiming what other people donated for free as YOUR 
property. You are trying to do the exact thing you claim to be protecting us from.

To clarify.

You seem to think we donated all our time and effort for YOUR benefit.

We did not.

We donated it for the benefit of the general public including other businesses.

Who cares if we save some other poor schmuck, who is just like us, a few hours writing a 
speech chip driver or something.

--- In SynthModules@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@...> wrote:
>
> > GPL on the code: Please read the license.  I've had almost a dozen
> > people contact me now regarding using the code for commercial
> > industrial designs they are working on.  This is not what I intended.
> 
> But it is what the people who wrote most of it intended.
> 
> >  I'm trying to PROTECT our code by using the GPL.  Does anyone have a
> > better solution?  How about the Creative Commons licensing?  Thoughts?
> >  I've spent a LOT of hours reworking the programs (adding the GPL
> > header, contributing coders, cleaning up mistakes, making them more
> > consistant, etc.).  This has taken a lot of time (something I honestly
> > do not have a lot of) and if I need to rework it again for a CC
> > license or ??? I can.  Let's hear your thoughts.  But please, *first*
> > read the GPL.  
> > 
> 
> I do not care if it gets used commercially. Your tried to use it commercially.
> 
> You have no intellectual property regarding the PSIM electrical design or any software 
not 

> written by you personally.
> 
> > Grant, I spoke to you about adding the GPL *before* I did so. 
> > Remember?  It does NOT in any way make it so the code isn't FREE.  If
> > code is placed into the "Public Domain", it is FREE to use in
> > commercial products and I do *not* want to see people start SELLING
> > PSIM-1 programs like ROMs for the Mini-Wave.  That is totally against
> > everyting I intended from the beginning.  I want the PSIM-1 community
> > to work together to develop new ideas and programs (virtual modules).
> >  Also, Grant... you have my phone number.  Why haven't you called if
> > you have issues with this or emailed me privately?  Let's talk soon.
> > 
> 
> GPL is fine, what is not fine is your claiming what other people donated for free as YOUR 
> property. You are trying to do the exact thing you claim to be protecting us from.
>

hey brice - good to hear from you
sometimes we have to cause a bit of a stink to make sure you're still  
there
it has been a long time, and panic on our part can set in

cheers
paul

On 28 Feb 2006, at 19:18, synthmodules wrote:

> Hello everyone.  The files posted here are *not* at risk.  Has anyone
> even read the GPL I proposed?  The files are FREE to use and use parts
> of, expand on, create new works based on it, etc... but this protects
> your code from *commercial* use.  I contacted everyone who had
> contributed code before I put it under the GPL.  Please read it and
> let me know if you are misunderstanding something.
>
> Yes, I'm working on the modules and am trying to get at least two
> shipped per week.  If you have any questions regarding your module,
> email me privately.  I do answer my emails.
>
> All these messages the last two days have been really upsetting.  I
> shipped a LOT of modules and haven't heard a word from most of those
> folks.  The majority of the private emails I'm receiving are very
> positive.  It seems all the negativity is spawning here and I need to
> know what to do to put an end to the bashing.
>
> *** I am trying to wrap this up as quickly as possible and WILL have
> ALL the remaining modules shipped within the next 30 days.  That is a
> PROMISE. ***
>
> I haven't gone away.  Those of you waiting on modules... your module
> is safe and sound right now on my kitchen table.  I'll upload a photo
> of the remaining modules in their current state as soon as I can.  I
> went home for lunch today (first time in almost two years) and spent
> that time (all 30 minutes of it I had) working on the modules.  Yes, I
> am working a LOT of hours but I am committed to finishing this run of
> PSIM-1 modules and getting back into the swing of things.
>
> So, the issues currently:
>
> Shipping status: currently about two per week.
>
> GPL on the code: Please read the license.  I've had almost a dozen
> people contact me now regarding using the code for commercial
> industrial designs they are working on.  This is not what I intended.
>  I'm trying to PROTECT our code by using the GPL.  Does anyone have a
> better solution?  How about the Creative Commons licensing?  Thoughts?
>  I've spent a LOT of hours reworking the programs (adding the GPL
> header, contributing coders, cleaning up mistakes, making them more
> consistant, etc.).  This has taken a lot of time (something I honestly
> do not have a lot of) and if I need to rework it again for a CC
> license or ??? I can.  Let's hear your thoughts.  But please, *first*
> read the GPL.
>
> Grant, I spoke to you about adding the GPL *before* I did so.
> Remember?  It does NOT in any way make it so the code isn't FREE.  If
> code is placed into the "Public Domain", it is FREE to use in
> commercial products and I do *not* want to see people start SELLING
> PSIM-1 programs like ROMs for the Mini-Wave.  That is totally against
> everyting I intended from the beginning.  I want the PSIM-1 community
> to work together to develop new ideas and programs (virtual modules).
>  Also, Grant... you have my phone number.  Why haven't you called if
> you have issues with this or emailed me privately?  Let's talk soon.
>
> I hope this clears up some things...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brice
> http://www.SynthModules.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to check out the primary Web site at:
> http://www.SynthModules.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Paul Bower
Label Manager
Awal UK Limited

www.awal.co.uk

John,

It's good to hear from you.  Yes, I can find 5 minutes a week to post.
 I just sometimes get wrapped up in building and sometimes sleeping. 
There are 36 PSIM-1 modules "out in the wild" so that's more than a
handfull.  Where is everyone who has one?

I'm pretty emotional about this too.  I feel like I've let a lot of
people down by taking so long to get them their modules.  I don't want
my delays to reflect on other synth module manufacturers.  Once they
are all shipped, I may write a page on exactly what happened
throughout the entire process.  Not as an excuse... but more for my
own benefit.  Blacet and Wiard can definitely crank out modules.  At
one time, I thought I could too.

One thing about the GPL that Grant seems to be overlooking is that it
DOES protect our code and keep in freely available in the community. 
If all our efforts were put into "Public Domain" someone (anyone)
could come along, copyright it, and claim it as theirs.  It's that
simple.  Besides the actual GPL, here is some great reading:

Frequently Asked Questions about the GNU GPL
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

My interests are also in the community.  That's what this whole
project is about.  I have never SOLD the programs and never will. 
There is nothing "commercial" about the programs written for the PSIM-1. 

I *am* a good guy and everyone who is still waiting for their module
WILL get it.  They are all over 90% completed... so kits at this point
are out of the question.  Besides that, there is the testing.  The
design tolerances are a bit tight in some areas and some parts need
"adjusted/swapped".

By the way, once I get all these shipped... I do have a surprise for
everyone... but that will have to wait for now.  :)

Talk to you again soon...
- Brice



--- In SynthModules@yahoogroups.com, "john mahoney" <jmahoney@...> wrote:
>
> Well, sometimes a fire has to be lit under a person's feet.
> 
> Thanks for speaking up, Brice!
> 
> Certainly you can understand that spending 5 minutes a week posting
a status
> report would have avoided this flare-up of emotions. Even if that
post was
> something like "I had to work lots of overtime this week so I was
not able
> to ship any completed modules, but I did spend 6 hours doing
assembly", most
> folks here would be satisfied that you were talking to us. Please don't
> suggest that you can't find 5 minutes once a week to do so. Please.
Really.
> 
> Everybody here is trying to hold on to the belief that you will
indeed ship
> their modules. We all hold out hope that you are a good guy. But
there's are
> limits to people's patience.
> 
> The funny thing is that I already *have* a PSIM (an early unit), so this
> isn't really about me. My interest is in the community: There should
have
> been over 50 users by now, whereas there is actually a mere handful
of us.

> 
> You might reconsider releasing some units as "kits" to those who are are
> qualified to build them. MOTM and Blacet sell both kits and finished
> modules, and it hasn't harmed their excellent reputations.
> 
> I also hope that we can find a good solution to the GPL issue.
> 
> Good luck.
> --
> john
>

Well, sometimes a fire has to be lit under a person's feet.

Thanks for speaking up, Brice!

Certainly you can understand that spending 5 minutes a week posting a status
report would have avoided this flare-up of emotions. Even if that post was
something like "I had to work lots of overtime this week so I was not able
to ship any completed modules, but I did spend 6 hours doing assembly", most
folks here would be satisfied that you were talking to us. Please don't
suggest that you can't find 5 minutes once a week to do so. Please. Really.

Everybody here is trying to hold on to the belief that you will indeed ship
their modules. We all hold out hope that you are a good guy. But there's are
limits to people's patience.

The funny thing is that I already *have* a PSIM (an early unit), so this
isn't really about me. My interest is in the community: There should have
been over 50 users by now, whereas there is actually a mere handful of us.

You might reconsider releasing some units as "kits" to those who are are
qualified to build them. MOTM and Blacet sell both kits and finished
modules, and it hasn't harmed their excellent reputations.

I also hope that we can find a good solution to the GPL issue.

Good luck.
--
john

Hello everyone again
i'm embarrassed to be emerging from my hole after publicly promising
to return there and stay …but there are a couple of statements
contained here in that are presented calmly as facts that are  not
entirely accurate from where i sit. 
and i decided that this discussion BELONGS in the open forum. 


i've agonized a bit about addressing this in the open forum because i
understand how contradictory challenges can make bystanders feel
uncomfortable. In truth they make ME uncomfortable. Unfortunately that
discomfort with contradiction is too easily exploited by anyone with a
penchant for bluffing and it favors the best poker face. I want to
maintain as much distance between myself and synthmodules as possible.
So i've framed none of this as a question….because i don't want any
answers.
Synthmodules said said what they said. 
i will say what i say.

Y'all judge for yourselves.

All business now…
(adjusts tie)

(A note on format: to show due respect for the principle of context
i've tried to retain sentences that are germane to the statements)

>Hello everyone.  The files posted here are *not* at risk.  Has anyone
>even read the GPL I proposed?  The files are FREE to use and use parts
>of, expand on, create new works based on it, etc... but this protects
>your code from *commercial* use.  

I do not want any such protection and i wrote no request for same.


>I contacted everyone who had
>contributed code before I put it under the GPL.  

I do not recall being contacted, and more importantly: i wrote no
request for any `protection' from commercial use of my code. I posted
my code to this yahoo site. The only understanding that i have ever
held about this action is that i was releasing this code into the
public domain with no expectation of compensation and with a full
understanding that i forfeit all proprietary claims on it. I do not
endorse the GPL nor have i ever endorsed it and i want none of it's 
protections.


>GPL on the code: Please read the license.  I've had almost a dozen
>people contact me now regarding using the code for commercial
>industrial designs they are working on.

 if those commercial concerns contact me at drmabuce@yahoo.com i will
provide them with any of the 14 applications i wrote


>  I'm trying to PROTECT our code by using the GPL.  Does anyone have a
> better solution?  How about the Creative Commons licensing?  Thoughts?

One thought: the author(s) of the code will own the rights to it or
forfeit them at their sole discretion. In the case of my 14
applications that prerogative is not yours to 'protect' or forfeit.

> I've spent a LOT of hours reworking the programs (adding the GPL
>header, contributing coders, cleaning up mistakes, making them more
>consistant, etc.).  

for the record, i cut copies of my applications from the synthmodules
directory and loaded the code into a text comparator. i make no
assertions about any other applications but in all fourteen of my
applications the only text differences detected were the deletion of
some of my heading comments and the insertion of synthmodules "GPL header'


	But please, *first* read the GPL.

I read it carefully today and i have read it in other forms and
versions on many other application programs. i do not want it on my code.

>Grant, I spoke to you about adding the GPL *before* I did so.
>Remember?  It does NOT in any way make it so the code isn't FREE.  If
>code is placed into the "Public Domain", it is FREE to use in
>commercial products 
> and I do *not* want to see people start SELLING
>PSIM-1 programs like ROMs for the Mini-Wave.  That is totally against
>everyting I intended from the beginning.  

(if i may interpose a a relevant comment into your address to Grant)

I respect all of the rights to which  synthmodules is entitled under
the laws that govern intellectual property in the U.S.

Synthmodules usurpation of the rights to my public domain code is an
infringement of my AUTHOR's rights. Synthmodules `intentions' now, or
in the past, have nothing to do with the subject 14 application programs.


a comment;
i realize that this may seem like a tempest in a teapot to many of
you, in the big picture it is. My irish is up over synthmodules claims
 that their SOLE motivation is MY protection. In the context of the
PSIM's backstory. I find such an assertion insulting; intentional
otherwise, the sting is the same.

Mike Murphy
aka dr mabuse of The Modern Implement Company

> It's good to hear from you.  Yes, I can find 5 minutes a week to post.
>  I just sometimes get wrapped up in building and sometimes sleeping. 
> There are 36 PSIM-1 modules "out in the wild" so that's more than a
> handfull.  Where is everyone who has one?

Two years ago, you told me you had shipped 30. You have shipped 6 more in two years.

> 
> One thing about the GPL that Grant seems to be overlooking is that it
> DOES protect our code and keep in freely available in the community. 
> If all our efforts were put into "Public Domain" someone (anyone)
> could come along, copyright it, and claim it as theirs.
> It's that simple.  Besides the actual GPL, here is some great reading:

' The hardware (SynthModules PSIM-1)
' is the intellectual property of Brice D. Hornback and no part of this
' code, hardware design, or any circuitry involved may be used in any
' commercial application without prior written permission. 

You did not design the hardware. It is not your intellectual property.

This is what has everyone upset, adding a header which contains meglomaniacal claims 
which are completely false.

"synthmodules" <synthmodules@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I'm pretty emotional about this too.  I feel like I've let a lot of
> people down by taking so long to get them their modules.
> 
> - Brice

Brice,

Certainly, it is uncomfortable for you to be in your position, being
the receiver of these negative comments.  

But, for a moment, consider the point of view of your critics - you
have had several hundred dollars of their money (me included) for well
over a year.  In fact, you HAVE let us down.  

The fact that you feel bad about this is important to me - not because
I wish to make you feel bad - but because, as a person, I would feel
bad if I let someone down in this way.  

What can correct this?  You know what the answer is to that question.
 It is simply to deliver the goods.

As you know, I, like John, have had PSIMs in my life since the first
production run - and I am thankful for that, but I am concerned about
what damage is done to this special community of contributors that
originally flocked to the PSIM as a meaningful and powerful platform
for new ideas....  

I am sure that you have explanations - legitimate explanations.  But
who will drink from the well when it appears that someone has pissed
in it?  

Needless to say, we cannot address this until you have finally settled
this present issue of the back ordered modules.  I have hopes that
many of the bad feelings present now will fade in time, but at the
moment, I cannot praise you and the PSIM publicly on this list - it
would simply be rude in light of all of those who are angry -
legitimatly angry, who have been politely biting their lip for months
(or years).

So, in a skirmish of a few days, the emotional truth has reared its
ugly head on this list....  

We all hope you will keep you promise on delivery.  I, for one, mean
you no harm - but perhaps this infusion of emotion on this list let's
you know how important what you are doing is for many of us.  We
really want you to do the PSIM, Brice.  If you were painter or a
roofer, I would have been in and out of court with you a year ago. 
You would be history - a distant memory.  The fact that you have a
bunch of angry customers still waiting should give you some
perspective on how important we all think the PSIM is.

But you can't ask for much more, Brice - we are all holding on by a
thread.


Gary


P.S.


As far as the GPL is concerned, I am certain that some time in the
future, I will be hiring someone (like Grant or Doc, for instance) to
write special code for my PSIM - I will pay because I cannot find
anyone who will spend hours of their lives for nothing.  In specific
legal terms, the GPL prohibits that software author from using any of
the existing code - because he is being paid for his time, he is
violating the mandate as stated.  

Obviously no one is disagreeing with the principle of the header - but
the wording is very problematic.


gc