The Cyndustries List

OK, I pulled out my ZO and recalibrated to get the following much much
better results.  I would say there is a five octave range that is very good
by analog VCO standards.  I estimate the scale trimmer per the factory
settings was off by 1.5 to 2 revolutions.

After final recalibration. ZO High Bias, Medium Range, Tuning in mid range,
base at 239.97	
Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
Cents	
-1	-1.0006	15	14.641	-0.359	-2.39%	-3398.25	-3440.19
-41.94	
0	-0.0033	30	29.638	-0.362	-1.21%	-2198.25	-2219.27
-21.02	
1	0.9941	60	59.627	-0.373	-0.62%	-998.25	-1009.05
-10.80	
2	1.9916	120	119.710	-0.29	-0.24%	201.75	197.56	-4.19	
3	2.9888	240	239.970	-0.03	-0.01%	1401.75	1401.53	-0.22	
4	3.9863	480	480.530	0.53	0.11%	2601.75	2603.66	1.91	
5	4.9837	960	960.140	0.14	0.01%	3801.75	3802.00	0.25	
6	5.9820	1920	1911.000	-9	-0.47%	5001.75	4993.61
-8.13	

Compared to my MOTM results from yesterday:

MOTM VCO	
Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
Cents	
-1	-1.0007	15	14.965	-0.035	-0.23%	-3398.25	-3402.30
-4.04	
0	-0.0034	30	29.958	-0.042	-0.14%	-2198.25	-2200.68
-2.43	
1	0.9940	60	59.954	-0.046	-0.08%	-998.25	-999.58	-1.33	
2	1.9915	120	119.96	-0.040	-0.03%	201.75	201.17	-0.58	
3	2.9887	240	239.89	-0.110	-0.05%	1401.75	1400.95	-0.79	
4	3.9862	480	479.68	-0.320	-0.07%	2601.75	2600.59	-1.15	
5	4.9837	960	958.23	-1.770	-0.18%	3801.75	3798.55	-3.19	
6	5.9820	1,920	1912.1	-7.900	-0.41%	5001.75	4994.61	-7.14	

I can get slightly better results for the ZO in the bass registers, to -5.98
cents at 60 Hertz.  But that occurs at the expense of the higher registers,
and it is the higher registers that are more sensitive to tuning errors.  I
doubt that tuning at 15 or 30 Hertz is relevant.  The ZO is now calibrated
to track the MOTM to within about 3 cents over a five octave range.  You
can't expect much better than that.

The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.  This
is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat frequency
is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed FM that I
described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to understand
other causes for this.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

That's encouraging news - thanks for yours and Mark's hard work on this!

Moe
http://www.stoogeindustries.com

--- In The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink"
<jloffink@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I pulled out my ZO and recalibrated to get the following much much
> better results.  I would say there is a five octave range that is
very good
> by analog VCO standards.  I estimate the scale trimmer per the factory
> settings was off by 1.5 to 2 revolutions.
> 
> After final recalibration. ZO High Bias, Medium Range, Tuning in mid
range,
> base at 239.97	
> Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
> Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
> Cents	
> -1	-1.0006	15	14.641	-0.359	-2.39%	-3398.25	-3440.19
> -41.94	
> 0	-0.0033	30	29.638	-0.362	-1.21%	-2198.25	-2219.27
> -21.02	
> 1	0.9941	60	59.627	-0.373	-0.62%	-998.25	-1009.05
> -10.80	
> 2	1.9916	120	119.710	-0.29	-0.24%	201.75	197.56	-4.19	
> 3	2.9888	240	239.970	-0.03	-0.01%	1401.75	1401.53	-0.22	
> 4	3.9863	480	480.530	0.53	0.11%	2601.75	2603.66	1.91	
> 5	4.9837	960	960.140	0.14	0.01%	3801.75	3802.00	0.25	
> 6	5.9820	1920	1911.000	-9	-0.47%	5001.75	4993.61
> -8.13	
> 
> Compared to my MOTM results from yesterday:
> 
> MOTM VCO	
> Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
> Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
> Cents	
> -1	-1.0007	15	14.965	-0.035	-0.23%	-3398.25	-3402.30
> -4.04	
> 0	-0.0034	30	29.958	-0.042	-0.14%	-2198.25	-2200.68
> -2.43	
> 1	0.9940	60	59.954	-0.046	-0.08%	-998.25	-999.58	-1.33	
> 2	1.9915	120	119.96	-0.040	-0.03%	201.75	201.17	-0.58	
> 3	2.9887	240	239.89	-0.110	-0.05%	1401.75	1400.95	-0.79	
> 4	3.9862	480	479.68	-0.320	-0.07%	2601.75	2600.59	-1.15	
> 5	4.9837	960	958.23	-1.770	-0.18%	3801.75	3798.55	-3.19	
> 6	5.9820	1,920	1912.1	-7.900	-0.41%	5001.75	4994.61	-7.14	
> 
> I can get slightly better results for the ZO in the bass registers,
to -5.98
> cents at 60 Hertz.  But that occurs at the expense of the higher
registers,
> and it is the higher registers that are more sensitive to tuning
errors.  I
> doubt that tuning at 15 or 30 Hertz is relevant.  The ZO is now
calibrated
> to track the MOTM to within about 3 cents over a five octave range.  You
> can't expect much better than that.
> 
> The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.
 This
> is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat
frequency
> is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed
FM that I
> described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to
understand

> other causes for this.
> 
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>

Thanks for reporting this, John.  I will go through the calibration 
process again, although I am not sure it will help because I saw too 
much sensitivity on the low end (greater than one octave per volt) and 
not enough on the high end.   I would expect the trimpot only to shift 
the center of the accurate tracking range.  But my procedure was 
different from yours in that I used the Tuning knob to set the initial 
frequency and then applied one volt to the 1V/Oct input.  Then I would 
adjust the Tuning pot up an octave and repeat.  I will instead try 
increasing the CV input one volt at a time while leaving the Tuning 
alone and see if that has different results.

-Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

John Loffink wrote:

>OK, I pulled out my ZO and recalibrated to get the following much much
>better results.  I would say there is a five octave range that is very good
>by analog VCO standards.  I estimate the scale trimmer per the factory
>settings was off by 1.5 to 2 revolutions.
>
>After final recalibration. ZO High Bias, Medium Range, Tuning in mid range,
>base at 239.97	
>Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
>Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
>Cents	
>-1	-1.0006	15	14.641	-0.359	-2.39%	-3398.25	-3440.19
>-41.94	
>0	-0.0033	30	29.638	-0.362	-1.21%	-2198.25	-2219.27
>-21.02	
>1	0.9941	60	59.627	-0.373	-0.62%	-998.25	-1009.05
>-10.80	
>2	1.9916	120	119.710	-0.29	-0.24%	201.75	197.56	-4.19	
>3	2.9888	240	239.970	-0.03	-0.01%	1401.75	1401.53	-0.22	
>4	3.9863	480	480.530	0.53	0.11%	2601.75	2603.66	1.91	
>5	4.9837	960	960.140	0.14	0.01%	3801.75	3802.00	0.25	
>6	5.9820	1920	1911.000	-9	-0.47%	5001.75	4993.61
>-8.13	
>
>Compared to my MOTM results from yesterday:
>
>MOTM VCO	
>Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
>Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
>Cents	
>-1	-1.0007	15	14.965	-0.035	-0.23%	-3398.25	-3402.30
>-4.04	
>0	-0.0034	30	29.958	-0.042	-0.14%	-2198.25	-2200.68
>-2.43	
>1	0.9940	60	59.954	-0.046	-0.08%	-998.25	-999.58	-1.33	
>2	1.9915	120	119.96	-0.040	-0.03%	201.75	201.17	-0.58	
>3	2.9887	240	239.89	-0.110	-0.05%	1401.75	1400.95	-0.79	
>4	3.9862	480	479.68	-0.320	-0.07%	2601.75	2600.59	-1.15	
>5	4.9837	960	958.23	-1.770	-0.18%	3801.75	3798.55	-3.19	
>6	5.9820	1,920	1912.1	-7.900	-0.41%	5001.75	4994.61	-7.14	
>
>I can get slightly better results for the ZO in the bass registers, to -5.98
>cents at 60 Hertz.  But that occurs at the expense of the higher registers,
>and it is the higher registers that are more sensitive to tuning errors.  I
>doubt that tuning at 15 or 30 Hertz is relevant.  The ZO is now calibrated
>to track the MOTM to within about 3 cents over a five octave range.  You
>can't expect much better than that.
>
>The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.  This
>is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat frequency
>is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed FM that I
>described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to understand
>other causes for this.
>
>John Loffink
>The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
>http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
>http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>  
>

Richard,

That's the hard way to tune it.  You might try a 3 volt shift to the 1V/oct
input.  Set ZO to 240 Hz.  Tune the 3 volt shift to nearly 1920, but not
quite.  The two missing octaves in between will tend to fall into place.

The bass tuning is far less important, in my opinion.  Better to prioritize
the high end.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Brewster
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:57 PM
> To: The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [The_Cyndustries_List] Recalibrated ZO results
> 
> Thanks for reporting this, John.  I will go through the calibration
> process again, although I am not sure it will help because I saw too
> much sensitivity on the low end (greater than one octave per volt) and
> not enough on the high end.   I would expect the trimpot only to shift
> the center of the accurate tracking range.  But my procedure was
> different from yours in that I used the Tuning knob to set the initial
> frequency and then applied one volt to the 1V/Oct input.  Then I would
> adjust the Tuning pot up an octave and repeat.  I will instead try
> increasing the CV input one volt at a time while leaving the Tuning
> alone and see if that has different results.
> 
> -Richard Brewster
> http://www.pugix.com
> 
> John Loffink wrote:
> 
> >OK, I pulled out my ZO and recalibrated to get the following much much
> >better results.  I would say there is a five octave range that is very
> good
> >by analog VCO standards.  I estimate the scale trimmer per the factory
> >settings was off by 1.5 to 2 revolutions.
> >
> >After final recalibration. ZO High Bias, Medium Range, Tuning in mid
> range,
> >base at 239.97
> >Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual
Frequency
> >Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents
> 	Difference
> >Cents
> >-1	-1.0006	15	14.641	-0.359	-2.39%	-3398.25	-
> 3440.19
> >-41.94
> >0	-0.0033	30	29.638	-0.362	-1.21%	-2198.25	-
> 2219.27
> >-21.02
> >1	0.9941	60	59.627	-0.373	-0.62%	-998.25	-
> 1009.05
> >-10.80
> >2	1.9916	120	119.710	-0.29	-0.24%	201.75	197.56
> 	-4.19
> >3	2.9888	240	239.970	-0.03	-0.01%	1401.75	1401.53
> 	-0.22
> >4	3.9863	480	480.530	0.53	0.11%	2601.75	2603.66
> 	1.91
> >5	4.9837	960	960.140	0.14	0.01%	3801.75	3802.00
> 	0.25
> >6	5.9820	1920	1911.000	-9	-0.47%	5001.75	4993.61
> >-8.13
> >
> >Compared to my MOTM results from yesterday:
> >
> >MOTM VCO
> >Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual
Frequency

> >Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents
> 	Difference
> >Cents
> >-1	-1.0007	15	14.965	-0.035	-0.23%	-3398.25	-
> 3402.30
> >-4.04
> >0	-0.0034	30	29.958	-0.042	-0.14%	-2198.25	-
> 2200.68
> >-2.43
> >1	0.9940	60	59.954	-0.046	-0.08%	-998.25	-
> 999.58	-1.33
> >2	1.9915	120	119.96	-0.040	-0.03%	201.75
> 	201.17	-0.58
> >3	2.9887	240	239.89	-0.110	-0.05%	1401.75
> 	1400.95	-0.79
> >4	3.9862	480	479.68	-0.320	-0.07%	2601.75
> 	2600.59	-1.15
> >5	4.9837	960	958.23	-1.770	-0.18%	3801.75
> 	3798.55	-3.19
> >6	5.9820	1,920	1912.1	-7.900	-0.41%	5001.75
> 	4994.61	-7.14
> >
> >I can get slightly better results for the ZO in the bass registers, to -
> 5.98
> >cents at 60 Hertz.  But that occurs at the expense of the higher
> registers,
> >and it is the higher registers that are more sensitive to tuning errors.
> I
> >doubt that tuning at 15 or 30 Hertz is relevant.  The ZO is now
> calibrated
> >to track the MOTM to within about 3 cents over a five octave range.  You
> >can't expect much better than that.
> >
> >The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.
> This
> >is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat
> frequency
> >is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed FM
> that I
> >described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to
> understand
> >other causes for this.
> >
> >John Loffink
> >The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> >http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> >The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> >http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

Under further examination the beats and clangorous tones are heard only from
the morph outputs, at morph settings over 1.5 or so.  It is probably some
function of the squaring of the output.  I hear no beating from the sine
wave output, or when morph is less than 1 and sine/trianglish in shape.

Also, just to be clear, I feel the ZO is a great addition to my modular
setup.  I'm quite happy with the purchase and the new sonic territory
enabled with the module.  I guarantee you'll hear sounds you've never heard
before from your modular.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

-----Original Message-----
From: The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:43 PM


The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.  This
is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat frequency
is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed FM that I
described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to understand
other causes for this.

Hi all,

I want to thank John Loffink for his observations and help with the
Zeroscillator.  We have had and are still having fruitful discussions
off-list that will better enable us to help you with your ZO.

The volts/oct trimmer on any VCO is always up for grabs as far as its
fine adjustment is concerned.  I'm sure many people have to adjust the
VCOs they purchase to match their keyboard or the other oscillators in
their system(s).  If any of you notice tracking problems against your
other VCOs and you believe the ZO is being operated correctly, don't
hesitate to try a v/oct calibration to bring things in line.  Please
attempt only if you have done this sort of thing before.  I suspect
I'm speaking to a savvy crowd here and most of you should have no
trouble with this.

--Mark Barton




--- In The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink"
<jloffink@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I pulled out my ZO and recalibrated to get the following much much
> better results.  I would say there is a five octave range that is
very good
> by analog VCO standards.  I estimate the scale trimmer per the factory
> settings was off by 1.5 to 2 revolutions.
> 
> After final recalibration. ZO High Bias, Medium Range, Tuning in mid
range,
> base at 239.97	
> Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
> Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
> Cents	
> -1	-1.0006	15	14.641	-0.359	-2.39%	-3398.25	-3440.19
> -41.94	
> 0	-0.0033	30	29.638	-0.362	-1.21%	-2198.25	-2219.27
> -21.02	
> 1	0.9941	60	59.627	-0.373	-0.62%	-998.25	-1009.05
> -10.80	
> 2	1.9916	120	119.710	-0.29	-0.24%	201.75	197.56	-4.19	
> 3	2.9888	240	239.970	-0.03	-0.01%	1401.75	1401.53	-0.22	
> 4	3.9863	480	480.530	0.53	0.11%	2601.75	2603.66	1.91	
> 5	4.9837	960	960.140	0.14	0.01%	3801.75	3802.00	0.25	
> 6	5.9820	1920	1911.000	-9	-0.47%	5001.75	4993.61
> -8.13	
> 
> Compared to my MOTM results from yesterday:
> 
> MOTM VCO	
> Desired Voltage	Input Voltage	Desired Frequency	Actual Frequency
> Error (Hertz)	Error (percent)	Desired Cents	Actual Cents	Difference
> Cents	
> -1	-1.0007	15	14.965	-0.035	-0.23%	-3398.25	-3402.30
> -4.04	
> 0	-0.0034	30	29.958	-0.042	-0.14%	-2198.25	-2200.68
> -2.43	
> 1	0.9940	60	59.954	-0.046	-0.08%	-998.25	-999.58	-1.33	
> 2	1.9915	120	119.96	-0.040	-0.03%	201.75	201.17	-0.58	
> 3	2.9887	240	239.89	-0.110	-0.05%	1401.75	1400.95	-0.79	
> 4	3.9862	480	479.68	-0.320	-0.07%	2601.75	2600.59	-1.15	
> 5	4.9837	960	958.23	-1.770	-0.18%	3801.75	3798.55	-3.19	
> 6	5.9820	1,920	1912.1	-7.900	-0.41%	5001.75	4994.61	-7.14	
> 
> I can get slightly better results for the ZO in the bass registers,
to -5.98
> cents at 60 Hertz.  But that occurs at the expense of the higher
registers,
> and it is the higher registers that are more sensitive to tuning
errors.  I
> doubt that tuning at 15 or 30 Hertz is relevant.  The ZO is now
calibrated
> to track the MOTM to within about 3 cents over a five octave range.  You
> can't expect much better than that.
> 
> The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.
 This
> is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat
frequency
> is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed
FM that I
> described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to
understand

> other causes for this.
> 
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>

Ah, that explains it!  I tried your test and did not get any
clangorous stuff out of the regular outputs so I was puzzled.  My ZO
tracks well as a 'regular' oscillator as well as an FM osc, though I
haven't measured anything.

Mike

--- In The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink"
<jloffink@...> wrote:
>
> Under further examination the beats and clangorous tones are heard
only from
> the morph outputs, at morph settings over 1.5 or so.  It is probably
some
> function of the squaring of the output.  I hear no beating from the sine
> wave output, or when morph is less than 1 and sine/trianglish in shape.
> 
> Also, just to be clear, I feel the ZO is a great addition to my modular
> setup.  I'm quite happy with the purchase and the new sonic territory
> enabled with the module.  I guarantee you'll hear sounds you've
never heard
> before from your modular.
> 
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:The_Cyndustries_List@yahoogroups.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:43 PM
> 
> 
> The error (Hertz) difference shows what would be the beat frequency.
 This
> is what might cause beats and clangorous tones.  Worst case beat
frequency
> is about 2 Hertz, which shouldn't cause the artifacts with indexed
FM that I
> described in previous posts.  Mark is working with me offline to
understand
> other causes for this.
>