Analogue-sequencer

hi Colin, 
i've just noticed something about the playlist-edit mode and part 
selection: in play mode, say part# 9 is playing and global bar is set 
to 32. if i hit the key for another part, this key's LED lights up 
orange, indicating the part that will be switched to when the end of 
the global bar is reached, as usual. but if i then enter playlist-
edit by hitting FUNC+(1-8) before the end of the global bar the 
switch to the next part is suspended until the end of the global bar 
is reached after i leave playlist-edit...this doesn't happen when i 
do the same, but enter pattern-edit mode instead of playlist-edit. 
although it offers some nice possibilities for live use it struck me 
as kinda weird, but when i think about it now it's probably because 
memory-wise the playlists are linked to the parts, whereas the 
patterns aren't...
it also gave me the idea that i'd like to be able to edit playlists 
for other parts than the one playing, and that i'd also like to be 
able to switch to playlists for other tracks directly from playlist-
edit...probably not really in the realm of the possible though, is it?

o and btw i've got the problem with the tempo setting sorted. when 
trying to set the BTempo the setting kept jumping back to "off" after 
i'd turned the pot to the value i want. turns out you need to set the 
value using the DATA-pot, not the TEMPO-pot. it's kind of confusing, 
as the display reads "Init tempo = xxx" when you're setting the 
BTempo and just "Tempo = xxx" when turning the TEMPO-pot, with the 
word "tempo" in the exact same spot in both readouts. only difference 
is the capital T. my bad...i'm blaming typically dutch "agricultural" 
produce. :-)

grtz Chiel

> Well, when you edit a pattern, you can choose to save the results 
> to a different pattern before you exit. Perhaps if there were an 
> equivalent for playlists it would be logical - you could then save  
> a playlist to a different part when you exit playlist edit - even  
> if that part was not yet playing. 
> OK, I know that isn't exactly what you just suggested but, hey, it
> might feel consistent, who knows?


ah..this sounds like a good suggestion. and indeed consistent with 
the pattern-edit 'save-to' possibility. maybe this could be tied in 
with the "page" playlist-edit (editting steps in the playlist thatare 
not currently playing), so when you exit that edit-mode to return to 
the current playlist you have the option to save, save-to or lose the 
edits.. i'd also like to be able to switch to playlists for different 
tracks though. and another thing i believe we've talked about before 
but hasn't been mentioned since: saving track/midi-channel 
assignments per bank...would be nice, but not a biggie for me anymore 
though; i've got 16 tracks..:-)

grtz Chiel

> i've just noticed something about the playlist-edit mode and part 
> selection: in play mode, say part# 9 is playing and global bar is set 
> to 32. if i hit the key for another part, this key's LED lights up 
> orange, indicating the part that will be switched to when the end of 
> the global bar is reached, as usual. but if i then enter playlist-
> edit by hitting FUNC+(1-8) before the end of the global bar the 
> switch to the next part is suspended until the end of the global bar 
> is reached after i leave playlist-edit...this doesn't happen when i 
> do the same, but enter pattern-edit mode instead of playlist-edit. 

That's by design...

> although it offers some nice possibilities for live use it struck me 
> as kinda weird, but when i think about it now it's probably because 
> memory-wise the playlists are linked to the parts, whereas the 
> patterns aren't...

Sort of. I always thought it was important to be able to edit a pattern
that wasn't active so you could set up a pattern in the background
before making it play. There are a couple of pointers used by the
pattern edit code to select which pattern in memory you are editing.
For playlist edit, the code just uses the current part and track
numbers.
When you enter playlist edit, a part_hold flag is set to prevent the
part changing. This was to prevent the playlist being edited switching
to another one.
IIRC the aux event for select part doesn't check the part_hold flag, so
there could be strangeness if a new part is selected by a pattern while
you're in playlist edit - I'll need to check that out.

> it also gave me the idea that i'd like to be able to edit playlists 
> for other parts than the one playing, and that i'd also like to be 
> able to switch to playlists for other tracks directly from playlist-
> edit...probably not really in the realm of the possible though, is it?

It is entirely possible - I'd just need to set up a separate pointer to
capture what the current part was at the time you enter playlist edit.
The reason I didn't do this is because I thought it would probably be
hellishly confusing.
Maybe not - what does anyone else thing ?

> o and btw i've got the problem with the tempo setting sorted. when 
> trying to set the BTempo the setting kept jumping back to "off" after 
> i'd turned the pot to the value i want. turns out you need to set the 
> value using the DATA-pot, not the TEMPO-pot. it's kind of confusing, 
> as the display reads "Init tempo = xxx" when you're setting the 
> BTempo and just "Tempo = xxx" when turning the TEMPO-pot, with the 
> word "tempo" in the exact same spot in both readouts. only difference 
> is the capital T. my bad...i'm blaming typically dutch "agricultural" 
> produce. :-)

I blame not R'ing The FM ;-)
I appreciate it may seem a little confusing, but imagine if you had
selected the new initial tempo and hit enter - the tempo woudl
immediately jump to the new position of the knob. I used the data knob
so that the tempo knob could remain dedicated to setting the current
tempo only.

Cheers,
Colin f

> > it also gave me the idea that i'd like to be able to edit playlists
> > for other parts than the one playing, and that i'd also like to be
> > able to switch to playlists for other tracks directly from playlist-
> > edit...probably not really in the realm of the possible though, is it?
>
> It is entirely possible - I'd just need to set up a separate pointer to
> capture what the current part was at the time you enter playlist edit.
> The reason I didn't do this is because I thought it would probably be
> hellishly confusing.
> Maybe not - what does anyone else thing ?

weeeeellll... following what i can of this conversation, it seems like
something that could be useful. i do think editing a different part would
be confusing, but i also think that being able to switch tracks from
directly within playlist edit would be a huge boon... it would smooth the
part-creation/modification process i think...

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:13:28 +0100, "Colin f" <colin@colinfraser.com>
wrote:

>It is entirely possible - I'd just need to set up a separate pointer to
>capture what the current part was at the time you enter playlist edit.
>The reason I didn't do this is because I thought it would probably be
>hellishly confusing.
>Maybe not - what does anyone else thing ?

Well, when you edit a pattern, you can choose to save the results to a
different pattern before you exit. Perhaps if there were an equivalent
for playlists it would be logical - you could then save a playlist to
a different part when you exit playlist edit - even if that part was
not yet playing. 
OK, I know that isn't exactly what you just suggested but, hey, it
might feel consistent, who knows?

Paul 
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

> > Well, when you edit a pattern, you can choose to save the 
results 
> > to a different pattern before you exit. Perhaps if there were an 
> > equivalent for playlists it would be logical - you could then 
save  
> > a playlist to a different part when you exit playlist edit - 
even  
> > if that part was not yet playing. 

> ah..this sounds like a good suggestion. and indeed consistent with 
> the pattern-edit 'save-to' possibility.

It would seem to have a certain logic to it.
I suppose when you hit FUNC in playlist edit to get the 
save/back/lose options, the step keys 1 to 8 could let you save the 
playlist to a different track on the current part, and 9 to 16 could 
let you save the playlist to the same track but on a different part.

But what logical combination of keys in play mode would allow you to 
select a playlist to edit from outwith the current part ?
Possibly the PLAY/EDIT key could be used along with a part key, but 
that could be confusing when FUNC is normally used to reach playlist 
edit. I rather wish I'd thought of the playlists sooner, so I could 
have put a dedicated 'list edit' key on there.

Cheers,
Colin f

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:29:20 -0000, "colinfraser_com"
<colin@colinfraser.com> wrote:

>It would seem to have a certain logic to it.
>I suppose when you hit FUNC in playlist edit to get the 
>save/back/lose options, the step keys 1 to 8 could let you save the 
>playlist to a different track on the current part, and 9 to 16 could 
>let you save the playlist to the same track but on a different part.

Wow, I never thought of the first of those options but that would be
amazing. Think about it maaaan, if you created a complex playlist with
lots of changes of transpose, pattern, repeat and p/b settings - you
could then effectively copy this to any or all other tracks. Would get
strange when set to p rather than b and the individual patterns are of
different lengths. But coollll

>But what logical combination of keys in play mode would allow you to 
>select a playlist to edit from outwith the current part ?

I dunno if my head can cope with editing a playlist in a different
part before you select the part. Or is that not what you are saying. I
am a bit stoned, but the video is in the bag. Innit Phil?

>Possibly the PLAY/EDIT key could be used along with a part key, but 
>that could be confusing when FUNC is normally used to reach playlist 
>edit. I rather wish I'd thought of the playlists sooner, so I could 
>have put a dedicated 'list edit' key on there.

PeeFourPeeFourPeeFourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Pauol
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

On Friday 18 June 2004 19:29, colinfraser_com wrote:
> I rather wish I'd thought of the playlists sooner, so I
> could have put a dedicated 'list edit' key on there.

Would it be possible to add one?

- Robert

> I suppose when you hit FUNC in playlist edit to get the 
> save/back/lose options, the step keys 1 to 8 could let you save the 
> playlist to a different track on the current part, and 9 to 16 
> could let you save the playlist to the same track but on a 
> different part.

so... by what i think i understand of P3's way of handling patterns & 
playlists, saving a playlist to a different track on the current part 
would only change the sequence in which the patterns are played, but 
not the patterns for the track that's 'saved-to' themselves, right? 
that seems pretty strange to me. the way i usually go about editing 
both playlists & patterns is by entering playlist-edit, and from 
there i use the PLAY/EDIT+step[1-8] combination to edit the patterns, 
also editing patterns other than the one currently playing and 'save-
to'-ing along the way to get variations on a theme. i then exit back 
to playlist-edit and adjust the playlist as needed. but i use 
playlists on all tracks in all parts all the time, so in my case the 
playlist- & pattern-edit modes are closely linked, and it would feel 
weird to adjust a playlist for a track in which you're not also 
editing patterns.
saving a playlist to the same track in a different part would make a 
lot more sense to me. that way there'd be several ways to adjust the 
playlist in the 'free'-mode, then 'save-to' another part, adjust the 
length just before hitting the FUNC-key to exit playlist-edit. sounds 
good!

> But what logical combination of keys in play mode would allow you 
> to select a playlist to edit from outwith the current part ?
> Possibly the PLAY/EDIT key could be used along with a part key, but 
> that could be confusing when FUNC is normally used to reach 
> playlist edit.

how about if you select the playlist to edit from outwith the current 
part from inside playlist-edit? if i'm not mistaken the PLAY/EDIT+step
[9-16] combination is still available from there, and i think it'd be 
pretty logical; you'd first select the track to edit, then use 
PLAY/EDIT+step[1-8] to edit pattern[1-8] or PLAY/EDIT+step[9-16] to 
edit the playlist for part[1-8]. you could use the third unblinking 
colour to indicate the part being edited. to select a playlist to 
edit from outwith the current part directly from play-mode you'd need 
to select the track to edit as well as the part and hit the 
combination keys at the same time, which seems like quite a task to 
me..

> I rather wish I'd thought of the playlists sooner, 
> so I could have put a dedicated 'list edit' key on there.

for me, the playlists are a large part of what makes the P3 THE most 
kickass sequencer in this world..

grtz Chiel

> Unfortunately it's not available if you're memory layout is set up 
> for 3 banks of 16 patterns - PLAY/EDIT + 9 to 16 are used to enter 
> pattern edit for those patterns. 

oh that's right there's different memory layouts..maybe i should give 
them a try someday..;-)
then how about PAGE+step[9-16]? that would still make sense to me; in 
playlist-edit, just PAGE gives you 'free'-mode for the current 
playlist and PAGE+step[9-16] gives you 'free'-mode for another part's 
playlist...

> > I rather wish I'd thought of the playlists sooner, so I
> > could have put a dedicated 'list edit' key on there.
> 
> Would it be possible to add one?

In theory it's easy to add one - there are 5 'spaces' in the key
scanning matrix that could be used.
But it might not go down well with existing P3 owners if they had to
retro-fit a new key.

Cheers,
Colin f

> so... by what i think i understand of P3's way of handling patterns & 
> playlists, saving a playlist to a different track on the current part 
> would only change the sequence in which the patterns are played, but 
> not the patterns for the track that's 'saved-to' themselves, right? 
> that seems pretty strange to me.

I take your point. Saving a playlist to another track would give you a
shortcut if you were going to set up similar playlists (for the
different patterns) on two or more tracks. I do this if I'm going to use
4 or 8 bar groups of patterns, so it's not completely useless ;-)

> how about if you select the playlist to edit from outwith the current 
> part from inside playlist-edit? if i'm not mistaken the PLAY/EDIT+step
> [9-16] combination is still available from there, and i think it'd be 
> pretty logical;

Unfortunately it's not available if you're memory layout is set up for 3
banks of 16 patterns - PLAY/EDIT + 9 to 16 are used to enter pattern
edit for those patterns. 

Cheers,
Colin f

On Saturday 19 June 2004 01:15, Colin f wrote:
> In theory it's easy to add one - there are 5 'spaces' in
> the key scanning matrix that could be used.
> But it might not go down well with existing P3 owners if
> they had to retro-fit a new key.

No no, sorry. I was thinking about an *optional* extra key 
for this. You would still have to support a key-chord for 
the standard machine, but you could also accept the new 
single-key event for the same thing.

- Robert

> No no, sorry. I was thinking about an *optional* extra key 
> for this. You would still have to support a key-chord for 
> the standard machine, but you could also accept the new 
> single-key event for the same thing.

That's a possibility, but without the extra key, there still isn't a
sensible combination of keys to spare.
Chiel's idea of PAGE+part from playlist edit could work, but I prefer
not to have a key with an instantaneous function have a different
function in combination with another key. I'd also rather provide a
direct route to editing playlists outside the current part if at all. If
you have to 'pass through' playlist edit for the current part on your
way to editing a playlist on another part, what happens to any changes
you made in playlist edit before selecting the different part ? And
should an exit from the inactive part playlist edit take you back to
play mode, or to the previous level of playlist edit ? Plenty scope for
confusion...

Cheers,
Colin f

> I am a bit stoned, but the video is in the bag. Innit Phil?

The video is err.. yes! still in the bag! 
Lol.. I'd forgotten i've not got the capture card fitted in PC at 
moment, it'll get sorted in next day or so.. just been distracted a 
little by playing a Moog Taurus Bass layered with a Xt pad on the E
(6) string, a sampled Virus kit on the A(5) string, A Pulse arpeg on 
the D(4) string, a female choir on the G string (sic!) and a 
bosendorfer grand layered with strings on the B(2) and E(1) strings. 
So yeah... when (if?) I've managed to extract my head from my arse 
i'll get back on a video editing tip! 

regards, 
Phil (in a twisted plank spanking styleee).