Analogue-sequencer

Hi all,
With my garage studio starting to come together, I finally begin to persue hardware 
sequencers! I have been doing my sequencing with a lot of different proggiez, most of 
them a bit on the involved side: KCS/Omega on my Atari, and on my old macs mostly Max 
patches and Numerology, as well as OpenMusic, HMSL, and others. The timing is not too 
bad, fine for most music, but I like my beats on the fast and dense side with multiple 
meters and various tunings, etc, etc. My computers (and MIDI!) don't always keep up with 
this kind of thing. Lately it has been occurring to me that I need a real-time dedicated 
sequencer or several to tighten things up a bit. I have built a few analog sequencers and 
am currently trying to finish those and build quantizers.

I love analog(ue!), but I do have some great digital synths here, like my fave TX816. Lately 
I have been thinking along the lines of hybrid circuits, analog sound bit with computer 
controlled switching and patch memory. Too bad I am not very good at designing 
electronics yet!

I only recently heard of Colin's P3 project, and as it is, I think it looks and sounds great, a 
fine instrument. One thing I am wondering about, how is the P3 "analogue"? Can one add 
CV outputs, or is it just that the P3 resembles an analogue sequencer? I have analog and 
digital gear here, so naturally I would not complain if I could output MIDI and CVs. From 
what I have read, though, is this not a MIDI sequencer? I want CVs, but even so, the P3 is 
great just the same. Since the P3 appears to be so tight, it deserves better than MIDI 
timing, I'd rather use it than a CSQ600, MC4 or such thing. 

Much awe and respect for the work (and play) that has gone into this,
CJ

> One thing I am wondering about, how is the 
> P3 "analogue"?

P3 is 'analogue' in the sense that you primarily edit the patterns using
analogue inputs, i.e. knobs.
The internal operation, aside from the multiplexing of the 34 knob voltages
into the analogue to digital convertor, is all digital.
The output is pure midi, unless you plug in a midi to CV convertor.

> Can one add 
> CV outputs, or is it just that the P3 resembles an analogue 
> sequencer? I have analog and 
> digital gear here, so naturally I would not complain if I 
> could output MIDI and CVs. From 
> what I have read, though, is this not a MIDI sequencer? I 
> want CVs, but even so, the P3 is 
> great just the same. Since the P3 appears to be so tight, it 
> deserves better than MIDI 
> timing, I'd rather use it than a CSQ600, MC4 or such thing. 

I chose not to put native CV outputs on P3 to keep the cost down, and
because I find external CV conversion more flexible.

When it was only capable of sending a maximum of 8 midi note meesages at any
one instant, the 8ms maximum midi latency was very hard to detect. Now that
it can send 4 CCs for each track as well as the notes, it is possible to hit
the midi bandwidth pretty hard, so the user needs to be aware of that if
he's really laying it on thick.
A lot of the time though, sloppy timing attributed to midi is really
happening elsewhere - in under-spec'ed synth CPUs, badly written OS driver
layers etc.

Sometime soon I hope to get started on a next-generation main board to use
in a big-brother to P3.
The general plan is to make this board backward compatible with the P3 UI.
It would support multiple midi outputs (potentially able to run one or more
of them using a higher speed proprietary interface to drive a dedicated CV
output module) and be available as an upgrade for exsiting P3 owners who
felt an insatiable need for more sequencing power.
Its release will depend on the commercial success of P3 though...

Cheers,
Colin f

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin f" <colin@c...> wrote:
>   
> > One thing I am wondering about, how is the 
> > P3 "analogue"?
> 
> P3 is 'analogue' in the sense that you primarily edit the patterns using analogue inputs, 
> i.e. knobs. The internal operation, aside from the multiplexing of the 34 knob voltages
> into the analogue to digital convertor, is all digital. The output is pure midi, unless you 
> plug in a midi to CV convertor.

I was guessing as much, but I still had to hope. Still, I do have some MIDI gear here which 
would be very happy about the P3 as it is.

> When it was only capable of sending a maximum of 8 midi note meesages at any one 
> instant, the 8ms maximum midi latency was very hard to detect. Now that it can send 
> 4 CCs for each track as well as the notes, it is possible to hit the midi bandwidth pretty 
> hard, so the user needs to be aware of that if he's really laying it on thick. A lot of the 
> time though, sloppy timing attributed to midi is really happening elsewhere - in under-
> spec'ed synth CPUs, badly written OS driver layers etc.

Yes, and in my clumsy playing! >;]P Now that my garage studio is coming together, and I 
am finishing some analog panels, I worry a little about coordinating sequences on digital 
and analog gear simultaneously.
 
> Sometime soon I hope to get started on a next-generation main board to use in a big-
> brother to P3. The general plan is to make this board backward compatible with the P3 
> UI. It would support multiple midi outputs (potentially able to run one or more of them 
> using a higher speed proprietary interface to drive a dedicated CV output module) and 
> be available as an upgrade for exsiting P3 owners who felt an insatiable need for more 
> sequencing power. Its release will depend on the commercial success of P3 though...

Sounds interesting! Whereas I do wish you every success with the P3 endeavor, I get 
cynical about the effects of commerce on scientific progress. What is typically allowed to 
succeed in the marketplace is not that which is best, but rather that which is easiest. 
Luckily for us, it sounds like the P3 is easy to use! I will certainly be persuing this.

Thank you for your efforts, and your reply!
CJ

So the p3 has a 303 type slide feature? You need a cv converter, though. 
A pro-solo already has a slide feature. So how does this work? Also, Can 
I get 4 cv sequences going from a single track on the p3 w/ cc messages? 
What would be a CV good box for handling this?  Basically, how would I 
mimic a Milton sequencer w/ slide?
Thanks

> So the p3 has a 303 type slide feature?

303 type slide is more commonly known as auto or legato slide.
Kenton call it auto portamento.
Whenever two notes overlap without the gate going low, the slide circuit is
activated.
It's really a feature of the destination synth, but P3 makes it easy to use
it by providing the 'tie' option - for a tied step, the previous note-off is
not sent until after the next note-on.

> You need a cv 
> converter, though. 

Some digital synths implement auto-slide. It only really makes sense in
mono-mode though.

> A pro-solo already has a slide feature. So how does this 
> work?

Set it to 'auto portamento' and tie some notes together in a pattern. You'll
get 303 style slides on tied notes.

> Also, Can 
> I get 4 cv sequences going from a single track on the p3 w/ 
> cc messages? 

If your CV convertor has 4 auxiliary outputs that can be assigned to
controllers, yes.

> What would be a CV good box for handling this?  Basically, 
> how would I 
> mimic a Milton sequencer w/ slide?

Not sure about that, I always build my own...
Maybe somebody else can recommend something.

Cheers,
Colin f