Analogue-sequencer

i just thought it would be nice to have the delay (shuffle) in negative 
values as well.
and maybe the delay value (0-11) could be displayed in clock divisions, 
i think this would make p3 more groovy.

> i just thought it would be nice to have the delay (shuffle) 
> in negative 
> values as well.

Negative delay values would require a suitable premonition algorithm.
If I had one of those, I'd be writing lottery number calculators, not
sequencers.

> and maybe the delay value (0-11) could be displayed in clock 
> divisions, 

Not sure what you mean - like tbase values ? Might be hard to fit in the
display if we have things like 128T.
I like clock ticks, as it ties in with 909 shuffle values.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, eas <trafo-dab@...> wrote:
>
> i just thought it would be nice to have the delay (shuffle) in negative 
> values as well.

plus one. I'd love to have this one implemented on the p3

one of my favorite things in cubase is the ability to offset tracks by
positive or negative values. makes drum programing really easy.
once you've tried it on snares or hats you'll never come back

Hi;

Sounds cool!


>From: eas <trafo-dab@gmx.de>
>Reply-To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
>To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [analogue-sequencer] negative delay
>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:12:39 +0100
>
>i just thought it would be nice to have the delay (shuffle) in negative
>values as well.
>and maybe the delay value (0-11) could be displayed in clock divisions,
>i think this would make p3 more groovy.
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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> my idea came from the mpc 2000, where you can shift the timing + and -
> wouldnt it be possible to play notes earlier ?

In something like an MPC, patterns are stored as a MIDI event list, with
timestamps on the events.
So moving an event forward or backward in time is just a case of adding or
subtracting a certain value from the timestamp before you get to the time
that event occurs.

P3's pattern data structure is a fixed array of 16 steps by the number of
row values - note, velocity, delay, length, status bits and auxes.
The start time of each step is hardcoded to a certain division of the master
clock, and because things like aux events can modify pattern values
dynamically, P3 doesn't necessarily know what the next step is going to be
until the tick before it gets there.
By which time, if you have a negative delay on that step, you're too late.

Possibly I could just treat the maximum negative delay as zero delay, where
all notes are delayed by a default amount anyway.
But that could potentially add a lot of complexity in the handling of
pattern timing, and cause subtle changes in the way events interact that
would either seem wrong and be complex to fix, or would do strange and un
predicatble things to existing patterns.
In short, it could take a huge amount of effort to see if I could add it,
without any guarantee of success.
While I'm happy to continue adding features to P3, there's a limit to the
amount of effort I can put in.

You can be sure, if I ever get the next generation sequencer into
production, negative delay will be in there...

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, eas <trafo-dab@...> wrote:
>
> my idea came from the mpc 2000, where you can shift the timing + and -
> wouldnt it be possible to play notes earlier ?
>

I think what Collin was saying is that no, this will not be possible.

The P3 reads the parameters written to each step as they happen, so if
you wanted to have a step with negative delay, it would have to
'happen' or trigger before that step was gotten to... predicting a
future action.

if you have a pattern: xxxxyxxxxxxxxxxx
where the 'y' in this pattern is the step you want to set a 'negative
delay'. then it would have to read step y before it gets to that
point. The p3 doesn't work this way (I think?). 
You would just have to program it on the previous step to have it
trigger wherever you want it to before step y.

Does this make sense? Am I correct Collin?
-josh

my idea came from the mpc 2000, where you can shift the timing + and -
wouldnt it be possible to play notes earlier ?

ah, colin answered this much better, and a bit faster than I did :)
of course!

On 1/30/07, josh <notjoshua@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com<analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>,
> eas <trafo-dab@...> wrote:
> >
> > my idea came from the mpc 2000, where you can shift the timing + and -
> > wouldnt it be possible to play notes earlier ?
> >
>
> I think what Collin was saying is that no, this will not be possible.
>
> The P3 reads the parameters written to each step as they happen, so if
> you wanted to have a step with negative delay, it would have to
> 'happen' or trigger before that step was gotten to... predicting a
> future action.
>
> if you have a pattern: xxxxyxxxxxxxxxxx
> where the 'y' in this pattern is the step you want to set a 'negative
> delay'. then it would have to read step y before it gets to that
> point. The p3 doesn't work this way (I think?).
> You would just have to program it on the previous step to have it
> trigger wherever you want it to before step y.
>
> Does this make sense? Am I correct Collin?
> -josh
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i was just imaginating if i would be in your position colin,
every day feature requests that can or canot be fullfilled...
it would annoy me a lot i think.
and its really not usual that there is such a close contact between a 
company and
all its customers.

so i want to clarify that if i have an idea to improve the p3,
there is no frustration or any negative thought if its not gonna be 
implemented,
cause the product was worth its price since ever.


regards
andreas




Colin Fraser schrieb:

>
>
> > my idea came from the mpc 2000, where you can shift the timing + and -
> > wouldnt it be possible to play notes earlier ?
>
> In something like an MPC, patterns are stored as a MIDI event list, with
> timestamps on the events.
> So moving an event forward or backward in time is just a case of adding or
> subtracting a certain value from the timestamp before you get to the time
> that event occurs.
>
> P3's pattern data structure is a fixed array of 16 steps by the number of
> row values - note, velocity, delay, length, status bits and auxes.
> The start time of each step is hardcoded to a certain division of the 
> master
> clock, and because things like aux events can modify pattern values
> dynamically, P3 doesn't necessarily know what the next step is going to be
> until the tick before it gets there.
> By which time, if you have a negative delay on that step, you're too late.
>
> Possibly I could just treat the maximum negative delay as zero delay, 
> where
> all notes are delayed by a default amount anyway.
> But that could potentially add a lot of complexity in the handling of
> pattern timing, and cause subtle changes in the way events interact that
> would either seem wrong and be complex to fix, or would do strange and un
> predicatble things to existing patterns.
> In short, it could take a huge amount of effort to see if I could add it,
> without any guarantee of success.
> While I'm happy to continue adding features to P3, there's a limit to the
> amount of effort I can put in.
>
> You can be sure, if I ever get the next generation sequencer into
> production, negative delay will be in there...
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com>
>
> 
>
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