Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2010-09-03 by Steve Maietta
Colin, I think the best solution would be allowing the 24 analog connections to be user configurable in software. In/Out/Gate/CV/Clock/LFO/etc..
Of course this would be best, how feasible it is is another story..
On another note, when you lay out the demux board, make sure they're 1: well buffered and 2: protected against over voltage/reverse voltage..!!!
~Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2010-09-06 by Sound Engineer
Hi Colin & all on the group. As more & more varied suggestions come in i think this one from Steve would be a great way to go- I.E. all 24 analog connections user assignable in software, if possible. That way you could please everyone it seems... Perhaps you could easily switched from the drum mode to user assigned? However, if not possible and appreciating that it's very rare & hard (if not impossible) to please all people, then i'm another that is looking to use the Cirklon as part of a modular system (alongside a MIDI polysynth & VSTs) at the heart of my studio, so at least a pair of CV inputs would be very much desirable & appreciated. Cheers, Kev. --- On Fri, 3/9/10, Steve Maietta <srmaietta@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Steve Maietta <srmaietta@yahoo.com>
Subject: [analogue-sequencer] CV ins/outs
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 3 September, 2010, 16:25
Colin, I think the best solution would be allowing the 24 analog connections to be user configurable in software. In/Out/Gate/CV/Clock/LFO/etc..
Of course this would be best, how feasible it is is another story..
On another note, when you lay out the demux board, make sure they're 1: well buffered and 2: protected against over voltage/reverse voltage..!!!
~Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2010-09-06 by Colin Fraser
> As more & more varied suggestions come in i think this one > from Steve would be a great way to go- I.E. all 24 analog > connections user assignable in software, if possible. Having input/output assignable in software means having 24 outputs and 24 inputs in hardware, plus the ability to selectively disable any output driver to make that pin an input. That would be the most expensive option, and least likely to fit in the available board space. For people who want a more than healthy number of inputs, bear in mind that I can always do an over-the-top modular i/o panel to connect externally. That could run over USB - the Cirklon CPU has a slave-mode USB inteface only, but an external high-spec CV I/O board could use one of the newer CPUs with USB-OTG support to interface with Cirklon at 12 mbps. Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com
2010-09-06 by Sound Engineer
Yeah fair enough Colin. I appreciate the user assignable option is not the way to go then. As an alternataive as i said i would be happy with a couple of CV i/p's but it's not as if i won't be buying a Cirklon even if it didn't have that feature as standard & was all o/p's. However, the option of an external modular i/o panel in additon is one that i'm sure would keep all those/us modular fans vary happy indeed. Cheers, Kev. --- On Mon, 6/9/10, Colin Fraser <colin@sequentix.com> wrote:
From: Colin Fraser <colin@sequentix.com>
Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] CV ins/outs
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 18:33
> As more & more varied suggestions come in i think this one
> from Steve would be a great way to go- I.E. all 24 analog
> connections user assignable in software, if possible.
Having input/output assignable in software means having 24 outputs and 24
inputs in hardware, plus the ability to selectively disable any output
driver to make that pin an input.
That would be the most expensive option, and least likely to fit in the
available board space.
For people who want a more than healthy number of inputs, bear in mind that
I can always do an over-the-top modular i/o panel to connect externally.
That could run over USB - the Cirklon CPU has a slave-mode USB inteface
only, but an external high-spec CV I/O board could use one of the newer CPUs
with USB-OTG support to interface with Cirklon at 12 mbps.
Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2010-09-18 by colinfraser_com
--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Sound Engineer <synthmusicstudio@...> wrote: > > > As more & more varied suggestions come in i think this one from > Steve would be a great way to go- I.E. all 24 analog connections > user assignable in software, if possible. Just to briefly come back to this topic... In the process of laying out a CV driver board with a PIC CPU, I was reminded that the PIC itself has software configurable I/O pins which can either be digital outs (0/5v) or analogue ins (0 - 5v range). With the addition of potential dividers to allow for a 10v input range, and some over/under-voltage protection that means I should be able to have 16 CV output only pins, with the remaining 8 pins assignable between gate outputs and CV or gate inputs. Got a prototype on the bench now... Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com
2010-09-18 by companyofquail@gmail.com
This sounds awesome!! Not to bog you down as this is already great but will we be able to use this as a midi to cv converter also? If so that would be really really useful Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message----- From: "colinfraser_com" <colin@colinfraser.com> Sender: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 13:25:15 To: <analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com Subject: [analogue-sequencer] Re: CV ins/outs --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Sound Engineer <synthmusicstudio@...> wrote: > > > As more & more varied suggestions come in i think this one from > Steve would be a great way to go- I.E. all 24 analog connections > user assignable in software, if possible. Just to briefly come back to this topic... In the process of laying out a CV driver board with a PIC CPU, I was reminded that the PIC itself has software configurable I/O pins which can either be digital outs (0/5v) or analogue ins (0 - 5v range). With the addition of potential dividers to allow for a 10v input range, and some over/under-voltage protection that means I should be able to have 16 CV output only pins, with the remaining 8 pins assignable between gate outputs and CV or gate inputs. Got a prototype on the bench now... Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-09-18 by Colin Fraser
> Not to bog you down as this is already > great but will we be able to use this as a midi to cv > converter also? Yes, you can already route incoming MIDI to any destination, including the CV output. I have plans to enhance that functionality, I just haven't decided how best to approach it. There are 5 hardware MIDI INs, plus 4 ports on the USB interface. I suppose the conversion of the analogue inputs to MIDI streams should be routable back out too. I'm just not sure if making Cirklon into a sophisticated MIDI router as well might be getting too far away from the original purpose. I'm also not sure why you'd want to bugger up your timing by feeding it sloppy MIDI from a PC sequencer ;-), but if you're just looking to play an analogue synth live from a master MIDI keyboard, that's cool. Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com
2010-09-18 by companyofquail@gmail.com
I have an octopus and p3, if I could use the octopus and the cirklon with my modular it will be awesome. I don't use sloppy pcs ;) lol Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message----- From: "Colin Fraser" <colin@sequentix.com> Sender: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:05:50 To: <analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re: CV ins/outs > Not to bog you down as this is already > great but will we be able to use this as a midi to cv > converter also? Yes, you can already route incoming MIDI to any destination, including the CV output. I have plans to enhance that functionality, I just haven't decided how best to approach it. There are 5 hardware MIDI INs, plus 4 ports on the USB interface. I suppose the conversion of the analogue inputs to MIDI streams should be routable back out too. I'm just not sure if making Cirklon into a sophisticated MIDI router as well might be getting too far away from the original purpose. I'm also not sure why you'd want to bugger up your timing by feeding it sloppy MIDI from a PC sequencer ;-), but if you're just looking to play an analogue synth live from a master MIDI keyboard, that's cool. Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-09-18 by James R. Coplin
I understand your point but it is essential the Cirklon gracefully handle timing data from a PC regardless of how sloppy you think it is. If nothing else, it would be nice if the Cirklon could act as a clock filter of sorts, ignoring the jitter like the P3 and passing a cleaned version upstream. Even if this introduces slight latency, that is more easily fixed in the DAW than timing that is all over the place. James R. Coplin
> -----Original Message----- > From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com [mailto:analogue- > sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of companyofquail@gmail.com > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 9:25 AM > To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: CV ins/outs > > I have an octopus and p3, if I could use the octopus and the cirklon > with my modular it will be awesome. I don't use sloppy pcs ;) lol > > Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Colin Fraser" <colin@sequentix.com> > > Sender: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:05:50 > > To: <analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re: CV ins/outs > > > > > > > Not to bog you down as this is already > > > great but will we be able to use this as a midi to cv > > > converter also? > > > > Yes, you can already route incoming MIDI to any destination, including > the > > CV output. > > I have plans to enhance that functionality, I just haven't decided how > best > > to approach it. > > There are 5 hardware MIDI INs, plus 4 ports on the USB interface. > > I suppose the conversion of the analogue inputs to MIDI streams should > be > > routable back out too. > > I'm just not sure if making Cirklon into a sophisticated MIDI router as > well > > might be getting too far away from the original purpose. > > I'm also not sure why you'd want to bugger up your timing by feeding it > > sloppy MIDI from a PC sequencer ;-), but if you're just looking to play > an > > analogue synth live from a master MIDI keyboard, that's cool. > > > > Best regards, > > Colin Fraser > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > http://www.sequentix.com > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2010-09-18 by Colin Fraser
> I understand your point but it is essential the Cirklon > gracefully handle timing data from a PC regardless of how > sloppy you think it is. If nothing else, it would be nice if > the Cirklon could act as a clock filter of sorts, ignoring > the jitter like the P3 and passing a cleaned version upstream. > Even if this introduces slight latency, that is more easily > fixed in the DAW than timing that is all over the place. Cirklon already does this for MTC. Unfortunately it's not practical for MIDI clock, because you don't have any prior knowledge of when the ticks are supposed to be arriving. The instantaneous tempo conveyed by MIDI clock is the reciprocal of the period between the last two clock ticks. Each clock tick defines the instant of each 24th of a quarter note. The inevitable timing jitter imposed on MIDI clock bytes can therefore be considered a 'noise' signal, overlaid on the tempo information. You can't filter it out without then having a slow step response to a change in tempo. If you have a sudden change to a higher or lower tempo at the start of a bar, the notes coming from a slaved device that is smoothing out the tempo will be obviously out of time. It may be possible to work around that using a window around the expected time of a clock tick for the current tempo, and defeating the smoothing if a significant change in the tick period is detected. But given the level of jitter you get from a PC MIDI interface (2 to 3 ms is not atypical), you don't have much leeway when the tick period at 120bpm is only 20ms. For MIDI timecode the situation is much better - the quarter frame ticks run at a permanently fixed rate. When Cirklon slaves to MIDI timecode, it generates its own internal timecode and synchronises by comparing both the phase and frequency of its internal tick to a heavily filtered version of the incoming MTC ticks. The result is a timebase with far less jitter than the master source. This image shows what I mean: http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon/cirklon-mtc-filt.jpg The upper trace shows a 100Hz square wave on an audio track (cyan/yellow), along with a pulse indicating the end of a MTC quarter frame tick at 25fps (= 100Hz tick) from Cubase on a quad core PC with a USB MIDI interface. You can see that the QF ticks are spread over a range of roughly 1 to 4ms late (it's a persistent scope trace over a long period). The lower trace shows the same audio signal, along with a pulse being generated by Cirklon from its internal timecode tick, synchronised to the filtered version of the PCs tick. Jitter on that pulse is down to about +/- 500us. I made these traces before I implemented a linear offset, which allows the average latency of the regenerated ticks to be tuned out, lining the centre of Cirklon's tick precisely in line with the audio reference. Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com