Analogue-sequencer

Hello,

This is my first post so I'll tell you a bit about myself first. I am getting back into music making after a long break. The last time I really did anything was about 18 years ago and then I just had a guitar and amp. So my knowledge of midi and other new(ish) niceties is just about nil, so please bear this in mind if I ask what may be a very silly or obvious question.

So here goes, first up is a feature request :-)

If I understand the Tutorial 3 video correctly, an "instrument" is a property of a track and the track in turn has 0-n patterns. If this is correct, I'm pretty sure that I will really miss having the name of the assigned instrument in the top row of the pattern edit screen, maybe between the pattern name and pattern direction. Would it be possible to add that ? Does this make sense ?

I've also got a couple of questions:
- Am I correct in thinking that the copy button will copy either a track or a pattern. Then the insert button would make a new track or pattern (depending on what was copied) before the current track or pattern. I also guess that if nothing has been copied, then the insert button would make a new empty track or pattern (depending on which screen is active). 
- Is it possible (or does this even make any sense) to create a pattern that would contain just midi commands to set up the instruments (meaning the connected hardware, not the "instrument" definitions in the Cirklon) ?
For example can I make a pattern that when played would just tell my Nord Rack to assign programs to each of it's slots ?

Thanks,
Ian

> The last time I really did anything was about 18 years 
> ago and then I just had a guitar and amp. So my knowledge of 
> midi and other new(ish) niceties is just about nil, so please 
> bear this in mind if I ask what may be a very silly or 
> obvious question.

I guess you may not be the typical Cirklon customer !
But still, good to see you haven't gone down the dark path of PC music
making ;-)

> If I understand the Tutorial 3 video correctly, an 
> "instrument" is a property of a track and the track in turn 
> has 0-n patterns.

The instruments are separate objects from the tracks.
You define the set of instruments you have attached to your Cirklon, in
terms of the MIDI port and channel they are connected to, and some other
stuff.
Then when you create a song, you can assign any instrument to a track. You
can assign the same instrument to multiple tracks, if you want to layer
patterns on the same one.

> If this is correct, I'm pretty sure that I 
> will really miss having the name of the assigned instrument 
> in the top row of the pattern edit screen, maybe between the 
> pattern name and pattern direction. Would it be possible to 
> add that ? Does this make sense ?

At the moment, patterns are created with a name of "pattern nn" or "cirklon
nn", where nn is an auto-incrementing number.
You can edit the name to whatever you like afterward.
One feature on the todo list is a optional default pattern name prefix for
each instrument.
With this added, patterns can automatically include the instrument name in
each pattern name.
Which amounts to much the same thing as having the instrument name on the
pattern edit screen, without having to squeeze it in there.
 
> I've also got a couple of questions:
> - Am I correct in thinking that the copy button will copy 
> either a track or a pattern. Then the insert button would 
> make a new track or pattern (depending on what was copied) 
> before the current track or pattern.

The COPY and INSERT keys are only used in pattern edit for now.
Tracks/patterns don't need to be inserted as such - tracks exist even if
they are empty, and a new pattern is created automatically on a track when
you go into edit mode.
It has been suggested that being able to use the COPY key to copy the
settings for one track to another, either to re-arrange the tracks for
clarity, or to double up an existing pattern by assigning it to another
instrument, would be useful. I'll put that in at some point.

> - Is it possible (or does this even make any sense) to create 
> a pattern that would contain just midi commands to set up the 
> instruments (meaning the connected hardware, not the 
> "instrument" definitions in the Cirklon) ?
> For example can I make a pattern that when played would just 
> tell my Nord Rack to assign programs to each of it's slots ?

There are 'values' at the track level that allow you to send a combination
of preset MIDI CC values and program changes to instruments.
These are stored separately from the patterns, either at the song, or
individual scene level (scenes being smaller sections of a whole piece), and
sent when the song or scene containing them is first selected.
I'm not sure what messages the Nord needs to set it up, but I know other
Cirklon users have track values calling up the correct multis, volume
settings, etc. to go with each song.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

On Friday 25 March 2011 at 16:18, Colin Fraser wrote: 
> 
> > The last time I really did anything was about 18 years 
> > ago and then I just had a guitar and amp. So my knowledge of 
> > midi and other new(ish) niceties is just about nil, so please 
> > bear this in mind if I ask what may be a very silly or 
> > obvious question.
> 
>  I guess you may not be the typical Cirklon customer !
>  But still, good to see you haven't gone down the dark path of PC music
>  making ;-)

Thanks Colin, I'll take that as a compliment :-)

Of course at some point a computer (read Mac) will be part of my setup for recording. I need to get an interface and am currently hesitating between a RME Fireface UC and the MOTU 828 MKIII Hybrid. Does anybody here have any experience/thoughts with either of machines ?

> > If this is correct, I'm pretty sure that I 
> > will really miss having the name of the assigned instrument 
> > in the top row of the pattern edit screen, maybe between the 
> > pattern name and pattern direction. Would it be possible to 
> > add that ? Does this make sense ?
> 
>  At the moment, patterns are created with a name of "pattern nn" or "cirklon
>  nn", where nn is an auto-incrementing number.
>  You can edit the name to whatever you like afterward.
>  One feature on the todo list is a optional default pattern name prefix for
>  each instrument.
>  With this added, patterns can automatically include the instrument name in
>  each pattern name.
>  Which amounts to much the same thing as having the instrument name on the
>  pattern edit screen, without having to squeeze it in there.

ok, that works for me ! 
> 
> > - Is it possible (or does this even make any sense) to create 
> > a pattern that would contain just midi commands to set up the 
> > instruments (meaning the connected hardware, not the 
> > "instrument" definitions in the Cirklon) ?
> > For example can I make a pattern that when played would just 
> > tell my Nord Rack to assign programs to each of it's slots ?
> 
>  There are 'values' at the track level that allow you to send a combination
>  of preset MIDI CC values and program changes to instruments.
>  These are stored separately from the patterns, either at the song, or
>  individual scene level (scenes being smaller sections of a whole piece), and
>  sent when the song or scene containing them is first selected.
>  I'm not sure what messages the Nord needs to set it up, but I know other
>  Cirklon users have track values calling up the correct multis, volume
>  settings, etc. to go with each song.

I guess that's what I'm after ! Can these values be recorded or are they input manually ?

Thanks,
Ian




>  Best regards,
>  Colin Fraser
>  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
> 
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 31/03/2011 18:35, Ian Mantripp wrote:

> I guess that's what I'm after ! Can these values be recorded or are they input manually ?

You can record CCs into a Cirklon pattern but I confess I haven't tried 
recording a CC-type patch dump that way, for example.

I tend to save the program changes required for each synth/drum machine 
and effect unit at song level, along with volumes for each. That way I 
don't have to touch a physical mixer or dial up patches before starting 
a song.

regards,

-- 
Paul
---
http://www.softroom.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/WilyEPeyote

>>currently hesitating between a RME Fireface UC and the MOTU 828 MKIII Hybrid. Does anybody here have any experience/thoughts with either of machines ?<<

you want it to do audio as well? the other thing to bear in mind is whether you go USB or f/w; I find that the macbook's scant two USB ports become a nuisance when the mac is at the centre of even a small recording setup. bluetooth mouse became useful.
anyway.
the MOTU midi routers I have (USB express or something) are great, once you figure out how the routing & muting works. solved all sorts of problems for me, & won me some channels back. 4 in 6 out, they are.

I also have a tascam 1641 which has up to 14 analogue inputs, 4 outs & midi i/o. for the money, there was no better way to get this many analogue inputs (drums, you see...). 

if I'm travelling light, I use an echo audiofire f/w interface which has 4 analogue ins & outs, + s/pdif & midi. it's buss-powered, even from a laptop, & has 48V on its mic inputs.

hth-
d.

On Friday 1 April 2011 at 11:52, duncan wrote: 
> >>currently hesitating between a RME Fireface UC and the MOTU 828 MKIII Hybrid. Does anybody here have any experience/thoughts with either of machines ?<<
> 
>  you want it to do audio as well? the other thing to bear in mind is whether you go USB or f/w; I find that the macbook's scant two USB ports become a nuisance when the mac is at the centre of even a small recording setup. bluetooth mouse became useful.

Hello Duncan,

Yes, probably only audio. I had purposely chosen usb units because I had (mistakenly) thought that firewire was on it's way out due to the arrival of Thunderbolt. No right away of course but maybe in a year or two. So my choice is now more open, although I'm not forgetting these two devices as they seem really good.

From reviews and users experiences I've seen many seem to have no problems with the usb on either of these units.

>  anyway.
>  the MOTU midi routers I have (USB express or something) are great, once you figure out how the routing & muting works. solved all sorts of problems for me, & won me some channels back. 4 in 6 out, they are.
> 
>  I also have a tascam 1641 which has up to 14 analogue inputs, 4 outs & midi i/o. for the money, there was no better way to get this many analogue inputs (drums, you see...). 
> 
>  if I'm travelling light, I use an echo audiofire f/w interface which has 4 analogue ins & outs, + s/pdif & midi. it's buss-powered, even from a laptop, & has 48V on its mic inputs.
> 
Glad to see you mention the echo unit. I was reading a sos review of the audiofire 12 today and that seems to fit my bill. 12 analog i/o. No digital i/o, but right now I don't know why I'd need that.

I have seen that they are going to announce a usb unit at Frankfurt next week so I may wait until then. But at the moment it's a battle between the RME and the Echo... with the Echo winning hands down on price :-)

Thanks for your input !
Ian

 hth-
>  d.
> 
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >  There are 'values' at the track level that allow you to send a 
> > combination  of preset MIDI CC values and program changes 
> to instruments.

> I guess that's what I'm after ! Can these values be recorded 
> or are they input manually ?

At present they are input manually using the encoders, or you can assign the
two knobs to a pair of values for each track.
I am going to implement an option whereby if any incoming message carrying a
configured track value is soft-thru'd to an instrument, it will become the
current 'manual' setting for that instrument.
These settings will then be storable with the track.
So if you were to use your master keyboard to select patches on a synth, the
program change message will be captured for each track you select a program
on, making it easy to store that selection with the song.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com