Analogue systems

Hello all, i have been waiting for ages to get my AS integrator as i 
couldnt wait to get started on creating some chunky sounds.  i have 
been accomplishing this to some degree but am constantly frustrated 
by lack of PATCH diagrams specifically for the AS modules.  Is there 
a book or something i can buy that would help me here? especially 
with creating kicks etc (this was one of the things i was most 
looking forward to).  I have tried but failed miserably and the only 
diagrams i can find are with regards to doepfer and i can never get 
them to sound correct.  Does Bob Williams offer any patching books, 
etc etc. i know i am probably being a pain, but its so frustrating 
having this great piece of kit sitting in my studio and not being 
able to get the primary sounds from it that it was intended for, any 
help for this desperate n00b will be appreciated.


P.S whoever it was that send the korgms50 manual to my friends e-
mail for me, thanks again, its much appreciated. (sorry forgot who 
it was and cant find link here :()

Hi there,

A good text to read, i think, would be the sound on sound series "synth secrets".

if you look on their website, you can download all the back issues (except the last 6 months)

These cover all sorts of issues, like, for instance, how to create a bass drum sound on an sh-101.

In my own experience, i have had no success at all with recording patches on my modular.   Everything is so interdependent, that the errors of the dial positions just get multiplied up (butterfly beating its wings and all that...) to the point where the result is no longer like the sound that i tried to write down the settings of at all.

I have far more success remembering the technique involved, rather then the actual settings.  This is why id recommend the sos articles.  If you know the reasoning behind getting a bass drum on a sh-101, then you could get one on pretty much any modular also, wether it be doepfer, analogue solutions or whatever.

But, in answer to your question, no, i dont know any analogue solutions specific pages :/

Julian

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lightmagus2004 
  To: analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:55 AM
  Subject: [analogue_systems] frustrated by analogue/modular


  Hello all, i have been waiting for ages to get my AS integrator as i 
  couldnt wait to get started on creating some chunky sounds.  i have 
  been accomplishing this to some degree but am constantly frustrated 
  by lack of PATCH diagrams specifically for the AS modules.  Is there 
  a book or something i can buy that would help me here? especially 
  with creating kicks etc (this was one of the things i was most 
  looking forward to).  I have tried but failed miserably and the only 
  diagrams i can find are with regards to doepfer and i can never get 
  them to sound correct.  Does Bob Williams offer any patching books, 
  etc etc. i know i am probably being a pain, but its so frustrating 
  having this great piece of kit sitting in my studio and not being 
  able to get the primary sounds from it that it was intended for, any 
  help for this desperate n00b will be appreciated.


  P.S whoever it was that send the korgms50 manual to my friends e-
  mail for me, thanks again, its much appreciated. (sorry forgot who 
  it was and cant find link here :()




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yahoo! Groups Links

    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/analogue_systems/
      
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    analogue_systems-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes i agree, i have tried to take note of patches and failed, much better 
to work out why what you do makes a certain sound, then a bass drum for 
example would be easy if you get the pitch env settings right...

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Julian wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> A good text to read, i think, would be the sound on sound series "synth
> secrets".
> 
> if you look on their website, you can download all the back issues
> (except the last 6 months)
> 
> These cover all sorts of issues, like, for instance, how to create a bass
> drum sound on an sh-101.
> 
> In my own experience, i have had no success at all with recording patches
> on my modular.   Everything is so interdependent, that the errors of the
> dial positions just get multiplied up (butterfly beating its wings and
> all that...) to the point where the result is no longer like the sound
> that i tried to write down the settings of at all.
> 
> I have far more success remembering the technique involved, rather then
> the actual settings.  This is why id recommend the sos articles.  If you
> know the reasoning behind getting a bass drum on a sh-101, then you could
> get one on pretty much any modular also, wether it be doepfer, analogue
> solutions or whatever.
> 
> But, in answer to your question, no, i dont know any analogue solutions
> specific pages :/
> 
> Julian
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: lightmagus2004
>   To: analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:55 AM
>   Subject: [analogue_systems] frustrated by analogue/modular
> 
> 
>   Hello all, i have been waiting for ages to get my AS integrator as i
>   couldnt wait to get started on creating some chunky sounds.  i have
>   been accomplishing this to some degree but am constantly frustrated
>   by lack of PATCH diagrams specifically for the AS modules.  Is there
>   a book or something i can buy that would help me here? especially
>   with creating kicks etc (this was one of the things i was most
>   looking forward to).  I have tried but failed miserably and the only
>   diagrams i can find are with regards to doepfer and i can never get
>   them to sound correct.  Does Bob Williams offer any patching books,
>   etc etc. i know i am probably being a pain, but its so frustrating
>   having this great piece of kit sitting in my studio and not being
>   able to get the primary sounds from it that it was intended for, any
>   help for this desperate n00b will be appreciated.
> 
> 
>   P.S whoever it was that send the korgms50 manual to my friends e-
>   mail for me, thanks again, its much appreciated. (sorry forgot who
>   it was and cant find link here :()
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/analogue_systems/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     analogue_systems-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>  *  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/analogue_systems/
>      
>  *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     analogue_systems-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>  *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 

-- 
bobule@partyvibe.com | www.partyvibe.com/bobule
mobile: 07976 570284 | www.streetbeats.co.uk

<< I have far more success remembering the technique involved, rather then
the actual settings>>

BINGO!

There lies the secret.  Ultimately, understanding the patch will allow you
to recall it later on.  There are many who say that patches can't be
recalled.  I've never agreed with this.  If you understand what's going on,
you won't have any problem.

I remember Subotnick telling us back in school that he does a lot of his
sound design on the plane trips back and forth from California (where Cal
Arts is) to New York (where is actual home was).  The caveat here was HIS
SYSTEM WAS IN THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT OF THE PLANE WHEN HE DID THS DESIGN.
His knowledge of synthesis however was such that he didn't need to be
tinkering to get what he wanted.  He knew what to expect, he knew what he
needed for a certain instance and could design it virtually.

At the time I thought this was impossible and in time, I realized it's quite
easy once you have a thorough understanding of your instrument.

Sometimes however patches get huge and some sort of notation is required and
for those instances what I usually do, which I've had success with,  is jot
down a flowchart indicative of the patch itself which notates all critical
pot settings as a reference. Admittedly, this is a little bit more
challenging on A. Sys modules because the tick marks around the pots are
few.   They are though, WORLDS better than Wiard that have no ticks marks
whatsoever around the pots.This is where a digital camera can REALLY come in
handy.

Over and above that, along with recording a short snippet of the finished
sound in digital audio, I also record critical settings, such as set limits
of VC inputs substituting static voltage levels in place the VC generator
that actually is connected into a given VC Input.

Let me explain:

Let's say you have a LFO controlling the frequency of a filter, and the
setting of which are so critical to that over sound that slight variations
of the filter's VC attenuator will send it into a completely different
situation.  At that point I would remove the LFO and replace it with a fixed
voltage source, such as a sequencer's stage pot.

 I would then intentionally send the filter into self ocillation and record
a sample of the filter's  frequency with the sequencer pot at full clockwise
and CCW to give an indication and record a tuning standard of the range of
the VC attenuation.  So, when the patch was recalled I would repeat this
self osc and tune the VC input against what was recorded before.

Another thing to think about - how much of the patch do you *really* have to
write down?  For me this usually involves the actual voice architecture
only.  The fact that it's being controlled by a sequencer is secondary and
can substituted later with something else anyway, so why take the time to
write the control path down unless that's part of its uniqueness?

Another secret:  If you have the ability to record midi information, using
an RS300 CV to midi converter is an excellent way to actually RECORD the
control path which can be replayed later back into your synth be means of a
MIDI to CV converter.  It works, splendidly.

hope this helps,

Peter

hello lightmagus,
here is the link to the analogue solutions ARTICLES
page that includes an article on "creating analogue
drums with monosynths".
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~concuss/articles.htm


it is a detailed article and i hope you'll find what
you need.
bakis.





--- Julian <julian@22host24.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> A good text to read, i think, would be the sound on
> sound series "synth secrets".
> 
> if you look on their website, you can download all
> the back issues (except the last 6 months)
> 
> These cover all sorts of issues, like, for instance,
> how to create a bass drum sound on an sh-101.
> 
> In my own experience, i have had no success at all
> with recording patches on my modular.   Everything
> is so interdependent, that the errors of the dial
> positions just get multiplied up (butterfly beating
> its wings and all that...) to the point where the
> result is no longer like the sound that i tried to
> write down the settings of at all.
> 
> I have far more success remembering the technique
> involved, rather then the actual settings.  This is
> why id recommend the sos articles.  If you know the
> reasoning behind getting a bass drum on a sh-101,
> then you could get one on pretty much any modular
> also, wether it be doepfer, analogue solutions or
> whatever.
> 
> But, in answer to your question, no, i dont know any
> analogue solutions specific pages :/
> 
> Julian
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: lightmagus2004 
>   To: analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:55 AM
>   Subject: [analogue_systems] frustrated by
> analogue/modular
> 
> 
>   Hello all, i have been waiting for ages to get my
> AS integrator as i 
>   couldnt wait to get started on creating some
> chunky sounds.  i have 
>   been accomplishing this to some degree but am
> constantly frustrated 
>   by lack of PATCH diagrams specifically for the AS
> modules.  Is there 
>   a book or something i can buy that would help me
> here? especially 
>   with creating kicks etc (this was one of the
> things i was most 
>   looking forward to).  I have tried but failed
> miserably and the only 
>   diagrams i can find are with regards to doepfer
> and i can never get 
>   them to sound correct.  Does Bob Williams offer
> any patching books, 
>   etc etc. i know i am probably being a pain, but
> its so frustrating 
>   having this great piece of kit sitting in my
> studio and not being 
>   able to get the primary sounds from it that it was
> intended for, any 
>   help for this desperate n00b will be appreciated.
> 
> 
>   P.S whoever it was that send the korgms50 manual
> to my friends e-
>   mail for me, thanks again, its much appreciated.
> (sorry forgot who 
>   it was and cant find link here :()
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/analogue_systems/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>     analogue_systems-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


=====
Bakis Siros
Parallel Worlds / Polariton
Athens-Greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.rubber.gr
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.ward12.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Julian wrote:

> I have far more success remembering the technique involved, rather then the actual settings.  This is why id recommend the sos articles.  If you know the reasoning behind getting a bass drum on a sh-101, then you could get one on pretty much any modular also, wether it be doepfer, analogue solutions or whatever.

I agree completely, the only time I bother notating my programmed patches
is when I'm trying to explain to other people how I did something so that
they could give it a try later.

For my own purposes, it's much easier just to remember techniques and how
individual synthesizers respond in various ways to things. I keep it all
(taps head) up there.

-Brandon
_______________________________________________
///////////////////////////////////////////////
///Misty on the glass now, Rusty on the door//
//Here for years now, Click-click drone//////
////////////////////////////////////////////
-------------------------------------------

I agree totaly with Peter when he says that understanding these principles
is essential, but I think that some examples can help.
A great source of information is, full of examples is :
  http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manuals/ms50/5001.html

You'll find a lot of diagram that will help you to understand main
principles of sound synthesis.
Regards,


Arnauld

Yes it's good that Korg made information like that available to 'the masses' - the MS-
50 (like any modular or near-modular) is virtually inpenetrable without a user guide.

Understanding the principles means that I can go up to a modular and know what to 
plug where to make a meaningful noise, so I'd agree - learning the essentials is really 
important.

And I'd agree Arnauld, www.korganalogue.net is a great website!! ;-)

Ben
www.korganalogue.net

--- In analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com, Arnauld Michelizza <am@z...> wrote:

> 
> I agree totaly with Peter when he says that understanding these principles
> is essential, but I think that some examples can help.
> A great source of information is, full of examples is :
>   http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/manuals/ms50/5001.html
> 
> You'll find a lot of diagram that will help you to understand main
> principles of sound synthesis.
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Arnauld