Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

What is the difference between owning 32 BCR2000 and using only a 
single preset on each simultaneously and owning just a single BCR2000 
and using 32 presets (almost) simultaneously?

I am wondering how many BC users are using multiple presets at the 
same time?

Kind regards,
Tony

Hi Tony

> What is the difference between owning 32 BCR2000 and using only a 
> single preset on each simultaneously and owning just a single BCR2000 
> and using 32 presets (almost) simultaneously?
Con - cost, space, power (15watts x 32) 
Pro - lots of controls accessible an one time. You can label each control


> 
> I am wondering how many BC users are using multiple presets at the 
> same time?

I have a BCF and a BCR
The BCF I mainly use for Sonar and will shift in groups of 8 channels
by using the preset keys 

The BCR can have 2 (or more) presets in place so you can flick between
them
I have my Fantom X8 in mixer mode and flick between chan 1 -8 and Chan
9 - 16 on preset 1 and 2. Works really well.


Royce

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "sexontony" <sexontony@...> wrote:
>
> What is the difference between owning 32 BCR2000 and using only a 
> single preset on each simultaneously and owning just a single BCR2000 
> and using 32 presets (almost) simultaneously?

Primary the neccessary amount of money... ;-)

My girlfriend sometimes would like to have a second BCR to play around
with two instances of Stylus RMX simultaneously. Maybe if I get
another cheap one at eBay...

> I am wondering how many BC users are using multiple presets at the 
> same time?

Well, actually nobody at all, because the BCs are no multitasking
devices... ;-) You still have to switch between different presets and
can use only one at the same time.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "ivaasura" <Sunrider7@...> wrote:
>> I am wondering how many BC users are using multiple presets at the 
>> same time?
> 
> Well, actually nobody at all, because the BCs are no multitasking
> devices... ;-) You still have to switch between different presets
> and can use only one at the same time.

I don't want to seem to be nitpicking, but depending on what you mean
exactly, this may cause a bit of confusion for some people:

The point to realize is that ALL the current settings for the 32
presets are retained throughout the time the BC remains switched on.
In particular this concerns the current controller values for the
buttons, encoders and faders. So all you have to do to switch between
these semi-permanent preset settings is press the PRESET </> buttons:
upon a switch to another preset, the LEDs and faders jump immediately
to the remembered values of the preset being selected. With this in
mind, you can program a "super-preset" spanning several actual
presets. (This issue is discussed in some detail in "BC MIDI
Implementation.pdf" vs. 1.0, in section 12.4, "Current value".)

So in a sense you CAN use the BC in multitasking mode. (After all, in
modern-day computer operating systems like Windows, you ALSO have to
manually switch between programs by selecting their open windows, and
we call THAT "multi-tasking".)

Mark.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

> So in a sense you CAN use the BC in multitasking mode. (After all, in
> modern-day computer operating systems like Windows, you ALSO have to
> manually switch between programs by selecting their open windows, and
> we call THAT "multi-tasking".)

Well, by that definiton my old JUNO 106 was also able of multi-tasking
- I could manually (or by MIDI program change) switch to a completely
different sound! Maybe we should call this phenomenon "virtual
multi-tasking"... ;-)

Of course you are right, you can use the preset button the same way
you use the encoder groups buttons, so using more than one unit just
make sense, if you want to have access to 16 channels simultaneously
or something like that (for example two instances of Stylus RMX or
even just one of UVI Workstation...).

A BNC44 is also a good sidekick to a BCR or a BCF. I use one as a kind
of "poor man's Alphatrack". ;-)

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 01:20:43PM -0000, Mark van den Berg wrote:
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "ivaasura" <Sunrider7@...> wrote:
> >> I am wondering how many BC users are using multiple presets at the 
> >> same time?
> > 
> > Well, actually nobody at all, because the BCs are no multitasking
> > devices... ;-) You still have to switch between different presets
> > and can use only one at the same time.
> 
> I don't want to seem to be nitpicking, but depending on what you mean
> exactly, this may cause a bit of confusion for some people:
> 
> The point to realize is that ALL the current settings for the 32
> presets are retained throughout the time the BC remains switched on.

I did not realize this.  Are the "switched away" presets still
sensitive to incomming (via midi) changes as well?  

My chief application of my BCR is remote control of a digital mixer
(Panasonic DA7), where I can see the changes happen if there's someone
at the console itself.  I could put much more info on separate "pages"
if I could trust that any changes to the main page would be shown when
I get back to it.

> (After all, in modern-day computer operating systems like Windows,
> you ALSO have to manually switch between programs by selecting their
> open windows, and we call THAT "multi-tasking".)

It's the computer that's multitasking, not the user.  A limit of the
current paradigm is that the keyboard and mouse are directed at only
one program at a time.  (It is certainly a limit that reduces
confusion, though!)

It's multitasking because you can start a web page loading, switch to
a word processor window and start typing, while the web page continues
to load.  Or because you start a song playing and it keeps playing
when you switch to some other program.

--> Steve

-- 
Steve Wahl    steve@...

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "ivaasura" <Sunrider7@...> wrote:

> Maybe if I get another cheap one at eBay...

Gotcha! I just got another BCR2000 for 56,- Euro at eBay! My patience
finally got paid. :-)))

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Steve Wahl <steve@...> wrote:
>> The point to realize is that ALL the current settings for the 32
>> presets are retained throughout the time the BC remains switched on.
> 
> I did not realize this.  Are the "switched away" presets still
> sensitive to incomming (via midi) changes as well?  

Good question! I thought I had tested pretty much everything when I
wrote "BC MIDI Implementation.pdf", but apparently not...

I've now tested this on my BCR with the following pair of presets:

$rev R1 ; Firmware 1.10; BC Manager 1.5.1
$preset
  .name 'Test 1                  '
  .snapshot off
  .request off
  .egroups 4
  .fkeys on
  .lock off
  .init
$encoder 1
  .easypar CC 1 1 0 127 absolute
  .showvalue on
  .mode 1dot
  .resolution 96 96 96 96
  .default 0
$store 1
$preset
  .name 'Test 2                  '
  .snapshot off
  .request off
  .egroups 4
  .fkeys on
  .lock off
  .init
$encoder 2
  .easypar CC 2 2 0 127 absolute
  .showvalue on
  .mode 1dot
  .resolution 96 96 96 96
  .default 0
$store 2
$end

So preset 1 links encoder 1 to CC 1 on ch. 1, preset 2 links encoder 2
to CC 2 on ch. 2.

Note first of all, as I stated before, that you CAN use these presets
as one "super-preset":
E.g. I first selected preset 1 and physically moved encoder 1.
Then I switched to preset 2 (via "PRESET >"): the LED for encoder 1
went out ("obviously"), and I fiddled with encoder 2.
Then I went back to preset 1 (via "< PRESET"), and the LED for encoder
1 went on again at the position I left it at.

However, the BCF and BCR only accept incoming MIDI CC data for the
CURRENT preset (the "temporary preset" or "preset 0" in BC Manager's
terminology).
E.g. when I sent CC data (i.e. CC #2 on ch. 2) for preset 2's encoder
2 (from BC Manager's MIDI controllers window), the BCR only updated
preset 2's encoder 2 whenever preset 2 was actually selected. If
preset 1 was selected when I sent data for preset 2, and I then
selected preset 2, it turned out that the BCR had NOT accepted the
previously sent data for preset 2.

So one could argue that the BCF and BCR are a bit inconsistent: a
"super-preset" only works "fully" in one direction (namely FROM the BC).
So it depends on the situation whether super-presets are feasible: as
long as you don't change parameters from the connected MIDI software
or hardware device, it's very feasible. In other words: the BC must
basically be the master.

>> (After all, in modern-day computer operating systems like Windows,
>> you ALSO have to manually switch between programs by selecting their
>> open windows, and we call THAT "multi-tasking".)
> 
> It's the computer that's multitasking, not the user.  A limit of the
> current paradigm is that the keyboard and mouse are directed at only
> one program at a time.

Actually there are things like "global hotkeys" (e.g. in Winamp) that
map particular keyboard keys to specific running programs,
irrespective of the currently selected program.

> It's multitasking because you can start a web page loading, switch to
> a word processor window and start typing, while the web page continues
> to load.  Or because you start a song playing and it keeps playing
> when you switch to some other program.

Yes, of course - so maybe we could say that the BCF and BCR provide
"unidirectional multitasking" - but no doubt someone will take offense
at that term too, so perhaps we shouldn't get into semantical
discussions (or rather: end the current one!). I merely wanted to
point out the option of programming super-presets. (I'd almost said
"multi-presets", but I'm done with the word "multi" for the moment...)

One related point (to complicate the overall picture):
At the other end of the spectrum as it were, Propellerhead Reason only
ever uses a SINGLE BCF/BCR preset (i.e. the temporary preset), but
makes it SEEM like there are many presets involved: when you switch
between Reason devices (synth, effect, mixer, etc.), Reason keeps the
BCF/BCR's CC assignments the same but "fakes" a switch to another
"preset" by simply sending the correct CC messages (for the new Reason
device) to the BC, so that the BC's LEDs/faders are updated
accordingly. In fact, this also happens WITHIN Reason's 14-channel
Mixer device when you press PRESET < or >, thereby switching between
channels 1-7 and 8-14.

Mark.