Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Do any of you boffins out there know if it would be possible to rope the BCR2k into sequencing duties without hooking it up to a computer? I know such software as 'BCR Steps' can do the job but I just had this crazy idea:

Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.

I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?

Of course I'm just looking at this question with regard to the drum machine I happen to have. Maybe there is a more generic model that can harness the pattern programming and midi clock aspects of any drum machine. When you consider the cost of your average hardware step sequencer this, if it's possible, could be an amazing low cost alternative.

Any takers?

Hi Alan

> Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.
>

> I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
>

You can put a sysex message onto a button.
I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the info you need.

You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you change the things you want to change.

Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages

All the best
Royce

Hi Royce,

I didn't want to ask you directly as I realise I've already had a lot of help from you, but thanks for chipping in here.

I'll have a go at retrieving sysex messages from the buttons. I'm slightly stumped by the same old problem of being a Mac user and not being able to run MidiOx. I can't remember if I sent you sysex info previously. If so, I must have managed with other software. I'll see what I can come up with.

I hope there are a few other members interested in this thread, as it really does sound like a valuable extension of the BCR's utilities.

Cheers for now,
Alan

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Alan
> 
> > Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.
> >
> 
> > I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
> >
> 
> You can put a sysex message onto a button.
> I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the info you need.
> 
> You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you change the things you want to change.
> 
> Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages
> 
> All the best
> Royce
>

Lol, we need a Royce Mac user version..............





________________________________

From: Royce <rpcfender@...>
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 8:02:21 AM
Subject: [bc2000] Re: BCR2000 with TR-626 as step sequencer

  
Hi Alan

> Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It 
>sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can 
>be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the 
>assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious 
>programming task that cannot be performed live.
>

> I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note 
>assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could 
>it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as 
>gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
>

You can put a sysex message onto a button.
I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the 
info you need.

You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you 
change the things you want to change.

Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages

All the best
Royce

Hi Royce,

Hmmm,... I just tried with sysex librarian the prog I used before to record sysex messages. Neither the drum pads nor the editing buttons seem to generate any sysex info as far as I can see. I fear that this machine may be a little too early for such sophisticated functions. Does this mean we're onto a complete non starter with this idea?

Cheers,
Alan

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Alan
> 
> > Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.
> >
> 
> > I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
> >
> 
> You can put a sysex message onto a button.
> I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the info you need.
> 
> You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you change the things you want to change.
> 
> Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages
> 
> All the best
> Royce
>

Alan

> Lol, we need a Royce Mac user version..............

I'm not sure the world is ready for a Scottish me.

All the best

Royce

Alan, 

I had a quick look on the web for a manual and there was a badly scanned version from RolandUS.

At the back it had the start of the sysex info, giving the header details, but just stopped after the bulk data transfer.
I don't know if there are missing pages or that is all it can do.

If you have an original manual perhaps you could compare it to the downloaded version - towards the back, around pp114 - and let me know.
If they are the same you could do a more detailed search on the  web to see if the sysex info is out there.

Is there an PC/Mac editor for the thing. If there is and you could use the editors output

You need the parameter sysex details.


All the best

Royce

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Royce,
> 
> Hmmm,... I just tried with sysex librarian the prog I used before to record sysex messages. Neither the drum pads nor the editing buttons seem to generate any sysex info as far as I can see. I fear that this machine may be a little too early for such sophisticated functions. Does this mean we're onto a complete non starter with this idea?
> 
> Cheers,
> Alan
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan
> > 
> > > Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.
> > >
> > 
> > > I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
> > >
> > 
> > You can put a sysex message onto a button.
> > I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the info you need.
> > 
> > You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you change the things you want to change.
> > 
> > Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages
> > 
> > All the best
> > Royce
> >
>

Hi Royce,

I'm afraid to say this is the same manual as mine. I fear that this is the limit of this machine's sysex abilities - it is rather ancient - and I don't think it's the kind of thing that editing software was ever developed for.

This may then be the end of the road for this far-flung idea. Unless of course...

Is there a way in which the TR-626 (or any other drum machine for that matter) can be used to simply generate a midi trigger and tempo and the BCR is just used to control the sequencer specific messages in relation to the sysex of whatever synth is being sequenced?

For example, when you made the preset for the K3m you assigned a note, at an octave apart, to each of the buttons along the top. Now, if there is a way of allowing a midi signal from a drum machine to trigger an arbitrary midi note event from the K3m, the note value of which is determined by an encoder of the BCR, then there might still be a way of making this work. Or am I just making this all up from my position of relative ignorance?

Ever hopeful,
Alan

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> Alan, 
> 
> I had a quick look on the web for a manual and there was a badly scanned version from RolandUS.
> 
> At the back it had the start of the sysex info, giving the header details, but just stopped after the bulk data transfer.
> I don't know if there are missing pages or that is all it can do.
> 
> If you have an original manual perhaps you could compare it to the downloaded version - towards the back, around pp114 - and let me know.
> If they are the same you could do a more detailed search on the  web to see if the sysex info is out there.
> 
> Is there an PC/Mac editor for the thing. If there is and you could use the editors output
> 
> You need the parameter sysex details.
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <alan@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Royce,
> > 
> > Hmmm,... I just tried with sysex librarian the prog I used before to record sysex messages. Neither the drum pads nor the editing buttons seem to generate any sysex info as far as I can see. I fear that this machine may be a little too early for such sophisticated functions. Does this mean we're onto a complete non starter with this idea?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Alan
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alan
> > > 
> > > > Now and again I use a Roland TR-626 as a kind of low tech step sequencer. It sends out a separate midi note number for each drum sound and it's patterns can be tweaked, on the fly, in a live context. The only trouble is that the assignment of midi note numbers to drum sounds is a mind-numbingly tedious programming task that cannot be performed live.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > I wondered what the chances are of getting the BCR to change the note assignment, and therefore alter pitch, whilst a sequence is running. Also could it be given the task of controlling other sequencer related midi events such as gate time, accent/velocity, etc.?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > You can put a sysex message onto a button.
> > > I tried to look for sysex info online but the manuals I found don't have the info you need.
> > > 
> > > You might like to hook it up to MidiOx and see if it puts out sysex when you change the things you want to change.
> > > 
> > > Use an editor to build a preset with thoes sysex messages
> > > 
> > > All the best
> > > Royce
> > >
> >
>

Hi Alan,

> I'm afraid to say this is the same manual as mine. I fear that this is the limit of this machine's sysex abilities - it is rather ancient - and I don't think it's the kind of thing that editing software was ever developed for.

I thought this might be the case.
There are some ancient machines that to change one parameter you have to send a whole preset.

Unfortunately I couldn't find a break down of the preset bulk dump so I can't do that either. If you can find the details this might be an option.


> Is there a way in which the TR-626 (or any other drum machine for that matter) can be used to simply generate a midi trigger and tempo 

Yes, from the Midi spec it shows that the 626 will put out Midi clock

>and the BCR is just used to control the sequencer specific messages in relation to the sysex of whatever synth is being sequenced?
> 
> For example, when you made the preset for the K3m you assigned a note, at an octave apart, to each of the buttons along the top. Now, if there is a way of allowing a midi signal from a drum machine to trigger an arbitrary midi note event from the K3m, the note value of which is determined by an encoder of the BCR, then there might still be a way of making this work. Or am I just making this all up from my position of relative ignorance?

Hopeful but not ignorant, I think.

The BC will only send out data when you do something physical to it, except in one case (as far as I know)

You can attach a Midi message to each of the 32 presets and when the preset is selected the message is output.
As far as I know when you change a preset remotely (PC message send to the BC) this message will be output. PC message not Note message so you are out of luck I think.

What you need is a Midi map that you can change in real time.
Notes coming in from the 626 are mapped to other notes and are then sent out.
Very easy to do on a PC (Mac OS9 was the last Mac OS I wrote for.) and you could use the BC to change the map.

I think Bomes Miditranslater might do the job.
Here is the app for the Mac Os10
http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator/overview/osx

You could build some hardware. It would be fairly straight forward to implement it in an 8bit micro-controller. 

As far as the BC by it self I think you are out of luck.

All the best
Royce

Hi Royce

> There are some ancient machines that to change one parameter you have to send a whole preset.
> 
> Unfortunately I couldn't find a break down of the preset bulk dump so I can't do that either. If you can find the details this might be an option.
> 

I'll see if I can extract a bulk dump. (I can't believe how scatological that sounds!)

> Yes, from the Midi spec it shows that the 626 will put out Midi clock
> 

Mm, I thought so.

> 
> Hopeful but not ignorant, I think.
> 

Ever hopeful

> The BC will only send out data when you do something physical to it, except in one case (as far as I know)
> 

Ah!

> You can attach a Midi message to each of the 32 presets and when the preset is selected the message is output.
> As far as I know when you change a preset remotely (PC message send to the BC) this message will be output. PC message not Note message so you are out of luck I think.
> 

Oh...

> What you need is a Midi map that you can change in real time.
> Notes coming in from the 626 are mapped to other notes and are then sent out.
> Very easy to do on a PC (Mac OS9 was the last Mac OS I wrote for.) and you could use the BC to change the map.
> 
> I think Bomes Miditranslater might do the job.
> Here is the app for the Mac Os10
> http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator/overview/osx
> 
> You could build some hardware. It would be fairly straight forward to implement it in an 8bit micro-controller. 
> 
> As far as the BC by it self I think you are out of luck.

Ah, hmm. Sounds like I may have met my ability limit!

Oh well, it was worth the speculation. I'm always on the lookout for new uses to put things to. I'm just not always technically capable following through. Thanks for putting you mind to it Royce.

All the best,
Alan