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Some questions from a noobie

Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-01 by jlhelfer

Hi guys

I'm not totally a noobie at this stuff, but I want to make sure I'm thinking about this right and that I can do what I want with the files you guys host.

I want to completely change the way my BCR2000 interacts with Ableton.  I am pretty good at Bomes, but there are some functions that I can't figure out how to change with it.  For example, when I press the first knob down I want it to light up 100% and not go up or down as I move the knob.  Is this possible with Bome, or do I need to edit it with the BCManager?  Or do I need both?

I read through the guide for the BCManager and it still doesn't make total sense to me with where to start.  Can someone give me a crash course in how to get started, assuming I have absolutely no idea how the BCManager is set up, but that I understand how Hexidecimal works with MIDI?

Thanks.  Feel free to tell me to take my noobness elsewhere
Jared

Re: Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-01 by Mark

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jlhelfer" <jlhelfer@...> wrote:
> I want to completely change the way my BCR2000 interacts with Ableton.  I am pretty good at Bomes, but there are some functions that I can't figure out how to change with it.  For example, when I press the first knob down I want it to light up 100% and not go up or down as I move the knob.  Is this possible with Bome, or do I need to edit it with the BCManager?  Or do I need both?

I'm not sure I understand what behavior you're talking about here exactly, so you'd have to explain in more detail.
(I should also mention that I don't use Bome and I'm not an expert on Ableton Live - maybe other people in this forum can help you in this respect.)

In any case, BC Manager allows you to configure the BCR's presets "natively", including the creation of very complicated custom setups for buttons/encoders; this may well suffice for customizing the BCR's interaction with Ableton Live according to your wishes.

However, BC Manager does not get involved in any translation of messages sent when you press/turn the BCR's buttons/encoders.
So if the capabilities of the BCR itself are too limited for your needs, you might need some external translation; but since this requires an "intermediary" (adding complications to the MIDI device setup etc.), my advice is to first try to make the BCR ITSELF do what you want.

> I read through the guide for the BCManager and it still doesn't make total sense to me with where to start.  Can someone give me a crash course in how to get started, assuming I have absolutely no idea how the BCManager is set up, but that I understand how Hexidecimal works with MIDI?

Sorry to hear you're having such problems. I've done my best to make the BC Manager manual as clear as possible, but it's simply very hard to write something that is both easy to understand for novices and contains all the details. And of course different people have different backgrounds and want to do rather different things with their BCF/BCR2000s, largely depending on the hardware/software to which they want to connect their BCF/BCRs.
One tip: the answer (esp. the 2nd part) to question 44 in the FAQ section is rather important concerning the overall way you can work with BC Manager.

For a first introduction to BC Manager, you might try Kip's Flash "videos", which can be found at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/files/Applications/BC%20Manager/

Hope this helps,
Mark.

Re: [bc2000] Re: Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-05 by Jared Helfer

Alright, I think a better way to put this would be...

Is there any way to separate the LED values of the knobs from the messages it sends? Mainly just for the encoders at this stage. So, the first knob would send B0 00 00-127 but it would receive B0 01 00-127? I would like to do the same thing with the buttons. as well.

And don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad about the guide, no need for an apology. I'm pretty damn sure this comes down to my inability to understand it, as I learn better through doing than reading when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks again
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Mark <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jlhelfer" <jlhelfer@...> wrote:
> I want to completely change the way my BCR2000 interacts with Ableton. I am pretty good at Bomes, but there are some functions that I can't figure out how to change with it. For example, when I press the first knob down I want it to light up 100% and not go up or down as I move the knob. Is this possible with Bome, or do I need to edit it with the BCManager? Or do I need both?

I'm not sure I understand what behavior you're talking about here exactly, so you'd have to explain in more detail.
(I should also mention that I don't use Bome and I'm not an expert on Ableton Live - maybe other people in this forum can help you in this respect.)

In any case, BC Manager allows you to configure the BCR's presets "natively", including the creation of very complicated custom setups for buttons/encoders; this may well suffice for customizing the BCR's interaction with Ableton Live according to your wishes.

However, BC Manager does not get involved in any translation of messages sent when you press/turn the BCR's buttons/encoders.
So if the capabilities of the BCR itself are too limited for your needs, you might need some external translation; but since this requires an "intermediary" (adding complications to the MIDI device setup etc.), my advice is to first try to make the BCR ITSELF do what you want.


> I read through the guide for the BCManager and it still doesn't make total sense to me with where to start. Can someone give me a crash course in how to get started, assuming I have absolutely no idea how the BCManager is set up, but that I understand how Hexidecimal works with MIDI?

Sorry to hear you're having such problems. I've done my best to make the BC Manager manual as clear as possible, but it's simply very hard to write something that is both easy to understand for novices and contains all the details. And of course different people have different backgrounds and want to do rather different things with their BCF/BCR2000s, largely depending on the hardware/software to which they want to connect their BCF/BCRs.
One tip: the answer (esp. the 2nd part) to question 44 in the FAQ section is rather important concerning the overall way you can work with BC Manager.

For a first introduction to BC Manager, you might try Kip's Flash "videos", which can be found at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/files/Applications/BC%20Manager/

Hope this helps,
Mark.




--
"And yet ik have alwey a coltes tooth,
As many a yeer as it is passed henne
Sin that my tappe of lyf bigan to renne.
For sikerly, whan I was bore, anon
Deeth drogh the tappe of lyf and leet it gon;
And ever sithe hath so the tappe y-ronne,
Til that almost al empty is the tonne.
The streem of lyf now droppeth on the chimbe.
The sely tonge may wel ringe and chimbe
Of wrecchednesse that passed is ful of yore;
With olde folk, save dotage, is namore."
-The Reeve's prologue, lines 34-44

Re: Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-05 by Mark

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jared Helfer <jlhelfer@...> wrote:
> Is there any way to separate the LED values of the knobs from the messages
> it sends?  Mainly just for the encoders at this stage.  So, the first knob
> would send B0 00 00-127 but it would receive B0 01 00-127?

There are two ways to make an encoder (or button) SEND data:

1. An ".easypar" statement ("standard output" in BC Manager).

2. One ore more ".tx" statements ("custom output" in BC Manager).

In fact, both methods can co-exist: in this case the encoder first sends its standard output, then its custom output.

However, an encoder only RESPONDS to the STANDARD output definition, not to the CUSTOM output definition.

So if you want the encoder to respond to B0 01 0-127, you have to make a "standard output" definition for these messages, but of course this automatically makes the encoder SEND these messages as well.

But you can add a CUSTOM output statement that outputs B0 00 0-127 (namely ".tx $B0 $00 val").
Then the encoder sends both B0 01 0-127 and B0 00 0-127. So it depends on the receiver whether this is feasible. (In particular, the receiver should probably ignore B0 01 0-127.)

Unfortunately the BCR2000 does not allow mathematical operations like addition on its encoder values. For that you need an external intermediary that converts the BCR's input/output messages.

Hope this helps,
Mark.

Re: [bc2000] Re: Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-13 by Jared Helfer

I've finally gotten your instructions figured out. I got an encoder to send both values at once.

However, I want the BCR to send one value (so for this I tried B0 00 val) but I want it to receive B0 01 val separately. So I want the LED ring around the encoder to read out B0 01 val. However, I want it to SEND B0 00 val to my computer. That make sense?

Thanks again for the help. Not trying to be a pain in the ass :)
Jared
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Mark <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jared Helfer wrote:
> Is there any way to separate the LED values of the knobs from the messages
> it sends? Mainly just for the encoders at this stage. So, the first knob
> would send B0 00 00-127 but it would receive B0 01 00-127?

There are two ways to make an encoder (or button) SEND data:

1. An ".easypar" statement ("standard output" in BC Manager).

2. One ore more ".tx" statements ("custom output" in BC Manager).

In fact, both methods can co-exist: in this case the encoder first sends its standard output, then its custom output.

However, an encoder only RESPONDS to the STANDARD output definition, not to the CUSTOM output definition.

So if you want the encoder to respond to B0 01 0-127, you have to make a "standard output" definition for these messages, but of course this automatically makes the encoder SEND these messages as well.

But you can add a CUSTOM output statement that outputs B0 00 0-127 (namely ".tx $B0 $00 val").
Then the encoder sends both B0 01 0-127 and B0 00 0-127. So it depends on the receiver whether this is feasible. (In particular, the receiver should probably ignore B0 01 0-127.)

Unfortunately the BCR2000 does not allow mathematical operations like addition on its encoder values. For that you need an external intermediary that converts the BCR's input/output messages.

Hope this helps,
Mark.




--
"And yet ik have alwey a coltes tooth,
As many a yeer as it is passed henne
Sin that my tappe of lyf bigan to renne.
For sikerly, whan I was bore, anon
Deeth drogh the tappe of lyf and leet it gon;
And ever sithe hath so the tappe y-ronne,
Til that almost al empty is the tonne.
The streem of lyf now droppeth on the chimbe.
The sely tonge may wel ringe and chimbe
Of wrecchednesse that passed is ful of yore;
With olde folk, save dotage, is namore."
-The Reeve's prologue, lines 34-44

Re: Some questions from a noobie

2011-02-15 by Mark v.d. Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jared Helfer <jlhelfer@...> wrote:
> I've finally gotten your instructions figured out.  I got an encoder to send
> both values at once.
> 
> However, I want the BCR to send one value (so for this I tried B0 00 val)
> but I want it to receive B0 01 val separately.  So I want the LED ring
> around the encoder to read out B0 01 val.  However, I want it to SEND B0 00
> val to my computer.  That make sense?

Yes, that's what I understood when I wrote my previous reply, but I think that what you want is not possible: if you set up an encoder to RECEIVE something (which is only possible via ".easypar"), it always SENDS this as well. So I think that the setup I suggested is the closest you can get.

Best wishes,
Mark.

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