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Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2015-05-11 by fabrizio.aromolo@...

Hi all,

I want to share my last experience.


I've recently had an issue with my BCR2000's encoders; some of them had stopped sending the right value when turning fast, and some other had stopped sending value at all.


I've contacted some Behringer support centers to buy the replacements encoders, but the price was too high for my taste (4 euros each + shipment); so I decided to search on Mouser for some replacement but I've read on this group the encoders may be a custom type made by Alps, with a very high pulses per rotation (found on a thread some numbers like 96 PPR) and I was uncertain what to buy.


So I've decided to open an encoder to find myself the right number of pulses and... I've found the cause of my issue; some months ago I've used a spray contact cleaner (WD-40) on the shafts to soften the rotation, it had melted the grease on the shaft which had dripped till to create a film between the contacts. I've removed all the grease, cleaned with the WD-40, closed and soldered back the encoder.


I've done this for all the encoders and now my BCR2000 is just like new. Each encoder brings from 0 to 127 with a single fast turn of the wrist.




So I found the right number of PPR is 24 (as you can see in the attached photos) for the normal encoders and also for the switch-encoders type.


The encoder that match best on Mouser is the Bourns PEC12R-4030F-S0024 but this is the type with the switch; I've not found the one without the switch (the code is PEC12R-4030F-N0024 ) but you can simply cut the upper 2 pin and use it like the normal ones.


Generally speaking you need a 12mm horizontal mount encoder, 24 PPR, no detents, no bushing, 30mm shaft ; here the datasheet of the Bourns http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/PEC12R-221222.pdf .


I hope this post may help someone!




Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2015-05-11 by Mike M

That's a great result of your investigation... much appreciated.

Often the weakest point of failure is the mechanical moving part(s) of a device.
- or failed capacitors of an electronic circuit !

Michael.

Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2015-05-13 by Bruno

Just a small note from my experience: WD-40 is NOT a contact cleaner. Quite the opposite, it will leave a thin layer of lubricate, which can be good for locks and other mechanical parts, where you want to get rid of the unnecessary friction (but please don't use it for your bike's chain). For cleaning encoders, use Kontakt 60:

http://www.kontaktchemie.com/KOC/KOCproductdetail.csp?product=KONTAKT%2060

Fabrizio - thanks for research, photos and Bourns product numbers!

Cheers,

Bruno
Show quoted textHide quoted text
2015-05-11 2:51 GMT+02:00 Mike M mikemoyeint@gmail.com [bc2000] <bc2000@yahoogroups.com>:


That's a great result of your investigation... much appreciated.

Often the weakest point of failure is the mechanical moving part(s) of a device.
- or failed capacitors of an electronic circuit !

Michael.




Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2015-05-13 by Wrestling Machine

Does anyone use this device with Ableton? 

I'm sorry for being a bit of a noob - but right out of the box Ableton Live 9 understands most of the encoders and buttons on the bc2000 but there are a row of buttons and encoders right at the top which I can't seem to make do anything within Ableton, even when I try to map the buttons like a normal midi controller. Any advice on how to get these top buttons to do anything? Many thanks for reading! :) 

      From: "fabrizio.aromolo@... [bc2000]" <bc2000@yahoogroups.com>
 To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015, 1:11
 Subject: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts
   
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Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-15 by p.rafferty3577@...

My BCR2000 had the same issue with poor response of the top row encoders ever since new.

I solved the problem with 47N caps like so:-

O O


O-||-O-||-O

Hope this is useful...

Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-15 by Stephen Hookings

And for me some Maplin contact spray ... Looks like I the only dirty person with this issue :-)

Thanks for the cap hint.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 15 Feb 2019 9:42 pm, "p.rafferty3577@gmail.com [bc2000]" <bc2000@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

My BCR2000 had the same issue with poor response of the top row encoders ever since new.

I solved the problem with 47N caps like so:-

O O


O-||-O-||-O

Hope this is useful...

Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-16 by sar_kriszti@...

Update. these encoders are ones with detents (not the smooth ones provided by Behringer). I did not change them yet but hope they will do the job as well (or be even better).

Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-16 by man.of.mystery@...

I'm under the impression that the Behringer ones are pots, but with no end stops, so they can keep turning.

Clicky rotary encoders operate two or more switches, as you turn them. The controller software has to keep watching the switches change, to work out the position.

I'm sure I've seen a picture of one of the BCR2000 encoders dismantled, and it looked like a carbon track, like the insides of a pot.

The switch cleaner idea seems like the best approach to me - I'm not sure you'd find the right replacement easily.

- Andy

Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-16 by Stephen Hookings

For me the top row of encoders/combined with push buttons were erratic - as of the solder had cracked. As it goes I bought some contact cleaner and sprayed it around the buttons (there is a small gap) then worked the controller's left right many times. Must have been dirty because once this was done the encoders worked again.

Similar issues with my GEM S2 rotary encoders - done lose the ballbearings

Hope you are only suffering from dirty optical circuit.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 16 Feb 2019 10:57 am, "sar_kriszti@yahoo.com [bc2000]" <bc2000@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

ugh, could you please elaborate on this method? I'm totally not getting it :D Thanks in advance!


Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-16 by Stephen Hookings

From what I understand for replacement they would need to fit in the same physical size and then the number of rotations per quadrature cycle needs to be compatible - but Mark's BCR software lets you set the so called resolution.

What I found, and why I think cleaner is worth a go, is if dirt gets in the optical path then the countering mechanism gets garbled. The Arduino libraries were instructive in testing a couple of encoders.

Typically Bourns make many of the components but they are super costly. Hence I chose to get some Chinese encoders and with Arduino I could use them to build control surfaces for various synths.

My synths live in my garage and they get dusty - even with covers ... Working the switches and encoders once in a while seems to reduce issue.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 16 Feb 2019 11:14 pm, "man.of.mystery@ntlworld.com [bc2000]" <bc2000@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm under the impression that the Behringer ones are pots, but with no end stops, so they can keep turning.

Clicky rotary encoders operate two or more switches, as you turn them. The controller software has to keep watching the switches change, to work out the position.

I'm sure I've seen a picture of one of the BCR2000 encoders dismantled, and it looked like a carbon track, like the insides of a pot.

The switch cleaner idea seems like the best approach to me - I'm not sure you'd find the right replacement easily.

- Andy


Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by rpcfender@...

Hi Andy
The Behringer rotary controls are encoders and don't have a carbon track like a pot. These are the Bournes 24ppr encoders.
Could be PEC11 or PEC12

They don't have a 'detent', which is a mechanical spring loaded ball shaped thing that 'falls' in and out of a hole to provide the 'lumps' you feel when turning other encoders like on E-mu, Roland, Yamaha, etc synths.

I think encoder feel is why many people think the BCRs are fragile. It's not any more fragile as far as the encoders are concerned.

The encoders are the same as in many synths just without the detent.

All the best
Royce

Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by rpcfender@...

Hi
It could also be a Bourns PEC11


From the data sheet...
PEC11- 4 0 20 F - S 0012

PEC11 = Model
4 = PC Pin Horizontal/ Rear facing

0 = Detent option
0 No Detents
1 28 Detents (18 pulses)
2 24 Detents (12, 24)
3 12 Detents (12)

20= Shaft length mm 15,20,25,30

F= Shaft style (F for Flattened, K for Knurled)

S = switch , N = no switch
0012 = Resolution (number of pulses. 0012, 0018, 0024)

Hope this helps
Royce

Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by Stefan Åberg

Are you searching for pushencoders? I have the right bourns encoders and quite a few spare, bought from mouser.
PEC12R-4030F-S0024
These Bourns push encoders work well for the upper row. A bit less resistance than the original, feels great.

17 feb. 2019 kl. 01:21 skrev rpcfender@yahoo.com.au [bc2000] <bc2000@yahoogroups.com>:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

Hi

It could also be a Bourns PEC11


From the data sheet...
PEC11- 4 0 20 F - S 0012

PEC11 = Model
4 = PC Pin Horizontal/ Rear facing

0 = Detent option
0 No Detents
1 28 Detents (18 pulses)
2 24 Detents (12, 24)
3 12 Detents (12)

20= Shaft length mm 15,20,25,30

F= Shaft style (F for Flattened, K for Knurled)

S = switch , N = no switch
0012 = Resolution (number of pulses. 0012, 0018, 0024)

Hope this helps
Royce

Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by sar_kriszti@...

Hmm, now these replies kind of make me think that i bought the wrong encoders. Would the ones with the detent function the same way as the original ones? I cant mount them yet, cause i dont have the right tool around atm. Anyways, did anyone try the detented encoders?

Re: [bc2000] Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by Boniforti Flavio

Hi all.
If you need encoders, just let me know. I've once sourced them from TRIPLEX (Germany) and should have some spares lying around as well.

BR,
Flavio.

PS: you can refer to this thread --> https://zaqaudio.com/forums/topic/knobs-replacement
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Am So., 17. Feb. 2019 um 09:41 Uhr schrieb Stefan Åberg steffolino@hotmail.com [bc2000] <bc2000@yahoogroups.com>:

Are you searching for pushencoders? I have the right bourns encoders and quite a few spare, bought from mouser.
PEC12R-4030F-S0024
These Bourns push encoders work well for the upper row. A bit less resistance than the original, feels great.

17 feb. 2019 kl. 01:21 skrev rpcfender@... [bc2000] <bc2000@yahoogroups.com>:

Hi

It could also be a Bourns PEC11


From the data sheet...
PEC11- 4 0 20 F - S 0012

PEC11 = Model
4 = PC Pin Horizontal/ Rear facing

0 = Detent option
0 No Detents
1 28 Detents (18 pulses)
2 24 Detents (12, 24)
3 12 Detents (12)

20= Shaft length mm 15,20,25,30

F= Shaft style (F for Flattened, K for Knurled)

S = switch , N = no switch
0012 = Resolution (number of pulses. 0012, 0018, 0024)

Hope this helps
Royce

Re: Cleaning "slow" encoders and replacement parts

2019-02-17 by rpcfender@...

Yes, but it is possible that the detent may push the encoder past the value you want

You can always set the number of Midi output values per revolution in the BC encoder with the '.resolution' parameter to overcome this.

Royce

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