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Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-07 by The Alison Project

Now with the Steiner in the limelight again with the new Euro board, my Synthacon has a scratchy res pot, very noticeable in lowpass mod, i have tried adding a 10uf cap in series with the pot which gets rid of the scratchy pot, but also the sound. I have replaced the pot 4 times..

any ideas..... I love this filter but cringe everytime I touch the res pot...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by Louis van Dompselaar

Same here! There must be something going on here...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hey that happens on my Synthacon too! Kinda strange. I have been planning
> on changing that pot for a while now.

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by Jason Proctor

it happens on charles's synthacon as well, and AFAWCS, it's not a pot issue.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hey that happens on my Synthacon too! Kinda strange. I have been planning
>on changing that pot for a while now.

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by wasubot

Yes same here. I found reference to this in the archives and thats where
'alison projects' idea came from. Not sure who the person was who tried it
but i think they never reported back if it worked or not. It is not the pot
i know that much for sure because other people here tried replacing that,
again its in the archives. Hopefully someone has a tried and tested
solution.

Wasubot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11/8/06, Louis van Dompselaar <louis@...> wrote:
>
> Same here! There must be something going on here...
>
> > Hey that happens on my Synthacon too! Kinda strange. I have been
> planning
> > on changing that pot for a while now.
>
>



--
Wasubot
----------------------------
Notes: Special Sequence Mixed For Dancing


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

Pots with even a slightly dusty surface will cause scratchy sounds when
there is DC running through them, as apparently there is. Takada's variant
has a slightly different resonance circuit, with a 68uF in series with the
pot, and a fixed resistor across both to deal with the DC gain requirements.
Perhaps insert a 100uF cap between the existing 1k/1k pot pair (+ve towards
the pnp), then add a 2k2 resistor in parallel with the lot. Maybe try a
smaller electro too.

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>it happens on charles's synthacon as well, and AFAWCS, it's not a pot issue.
>
>
>
>> Hey that happens on my Synthacon too! Kinda strange. I have been planning
>>on changing that pot for a while now.
>
>
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by Ken Johnston

Isn't the Synthacon res pot is like the boost control on the Dallas
Rangemaster treble boosters for guitar? From the GEOFEX site, regarding
this:

"Another quirk of the original is that there is a DC voltage across the
volume control, which also serves as the collector load resistor. This
means that it will inevitably scratch and crackle whenever the control
is moved even if you use high-collar conductive plastic pots. This was
OK in the time of the original unit, as the designer assumed that a
player would set up this thing and leave it, not twiddling the control
during a number. There are ways to "correct" this, but they complicate
the design unduly, so I have chosen to leave them out, going with the
original circuit. It will crackle when you twist the "boost set"
control."

Alas, the fix is not explained, although I bet one could find it
digging through the myriad Rangemaster clone schemos on the web...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-08 by Charles Stella

Yes indeed. I replaced the pot twice. Glad to hear it's something else.

I'll give the mod a try.

Thanks
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Nov 8, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Jason Proctor wrote:

> it happens on charles's synthacon as well, and AFAWCS, it's not a
> pot issue.
>
> > Hey that happens on my Synthacon too! Kinda strange. I have been
> planning
> >on changing that pot for a while now.
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by Charles Osthelder

The fix is to replace the pot with a resistor or two and then isolate
the pot from the collector current with a cap. That really does
defeat the design, however. The idea was to set up the transistor
gain how you want through the collector (with the pot) rather than
simply throttling the output. I love the Rangemaster! And the
Steiner VCF!!!

If you want to experiment, I do have quite a pile of germanium
transistors. Shipped anywhere, no charge.

Chub - the man who moved junk across the US.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Johnston" <betweenpie@...> wrote:
>
> Isn't the Synthacon res pot is like the boost control on the Dallas
> Rangemaster treble boosters for guitar? From the GEOFEX site, regarding
> this:
>
> "Another quirk of the original is that there is a DC voltage across the
> volume control, which also serves as the collector load resistor. This
> means that it will inevitably scratch and crackle whenever the control
> is moved even if you use high-collar conductive plastic pots. This was
> OK in the time of the original unit, as the designer assumed that a
> player would set up this thing and leave it, not twiddling the control
> during a number. There are ways to "correct" this, but they complicate
> the design unduly, so I have chosen to leave them out, going with the
> original circuit. It will crackle when you twist the "boost set"
> control."
>
> Alas, the fix is not explained, although I bet one could find it
> digging through the myriad Rangemaster clone schemos on the web...
> >
>

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by Gerald Stevens

Do me a favor and watch the output on a scope while you turn the knob. My
problem with my CGS steiner filter sounds like a "scratchy pot" to the ear,
but is pretty obviously due to some kind of DC component when you look at it
on a scope. Could be inherent in the original design.

-gerald
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11/7/06, The Alison Project <alison@...> wrote:
>
> Now with the Steiner in the limelight again with the new Euro board, my
> Synthacon has a scratchy res pot, very noticeable in lowpass mod, i have
> tried adding a 10uf cap in series with the pot which gets rid of the
> scratchy pot, but also the sound. I have replaced the pot 4 times..
>
> any ideas..... I love this filter but cringe everytime I touch the res
> pot...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by bbluthang

>
> If you want to experiment, I do have quite a pile of germanium
> transistors. Shipped anywhere, no charge.
>
Has anybody tried Ge transistors in the steiner??
any difference?

also, with the euro version, could one replace the diode strings with
leds and put them on the panel?

just wondering
Andrew

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

>also, with the euro version, could one replace the diode strings with
>leds and put them on the panel?

No. There simply isn't enough current through them for them to light. Even
high efficiency LEDs (2mA) aren't bright enough for the effort.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by mrboningen

my synthacon filter (purchased pre-built by metalbox in frac rack
format) also does this. i asked michael ford of metalbox if he could
fix it for me, so hopefully he's gonna try. so, what IS the fix?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, Charles Stella <cstella@...> wrote:
>
> Yes indeed. I replaced the pot twice. Glad to hear it's something else.
>
> I'll give the mod a try.
>
> Thanks

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by Ian Maltby

Keeping with the guitar FX theme, the easiest although possibly not the
best way to fix the scratchy pot is to use the gain setup from a fuzzface.
Instead of wiring the resonance pot as variable resistor wire the 2
outer lugs to the board. Then wire a large electolytic cap, I used 22uF,
between one of the outer lugs and the wiper. I put the + side towards
the NPN transister, but it seems to work either way. Here's quick
drawing of what I mean.

http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/resonance_mod.png

This way as far as DC is concerned the pot is always set on full, so
turning it doesn't affect the DC gain of the circuit and because the cap
blocks DC you don't get any scratchy effect. The cap lets AC pass
through it so turning the pot alters the amount of AC gain.

hope this helps :)


Ken Johnston wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Isn't the Synthacon res pot is like the boost control on the Dallas
> Rangemaster treble boosters for guitar? From the GEOFEX site, regarding
> this:
>
> "Another quirk of the original is that there is a DC voltage across the
> volume control, which also serves as the collector load resistor. This
> means that it will inevitably scratch and crackle whenever the control
> is moved even if you use high-collar conductive plastic pots. This was
> OK in the time of the original unit, as the designer assumed that a
> player would set up this thing and leave it, not twiddling the control
> during a number. There are ways to "correct" this, but they complicate
> the design unduly, so I have chosen to leave them out, going with the
> original circuit. It will crackle when you twist the "boost set"
> control."

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-09 by ken johnston

I have. Did not make any difference I could hear, and I have good ears,
I swear.

bbluthang wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> > If you want to experiment, I do have quite a pile of germanium
> > transistors. Shipped anywhere, no charge.
> >
> Has anybody tried Ge transistors in the steiner??
> any difference?
>
> also, with the euro version, could one replace the diode strings with
> leds and put them on the panel?
>
> just wondering
> Andrew
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-10 by ken johnston

I used germanium diodes, I mean, not leds. Actually, I used leaky,
sadly-good-for-nothing-else OC44 germanium transistors as diodes to
replace the 1N4148s in my functioning Synthacon filter. No diff.

That being said...I did use the OC44s as diodes to some effect in
salvaging the circuit of my faulty first attempt at a steiner filter,
where I added switchable feedback loops between the various diode
juncture points (and elsewhere). Kills the thing as a filter per se but
makes a lovely, highly-mutable distortion device that reacts to the
multiple inputs in very interesting ways. Noisy, cross-cancelling
diode-harmonic, squarewave ways. Here I can discern some small
differences between types of diodes but really can't say it is due to
germanium or silicone as there are other factors at play.

ken johnston wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I have. Did not make any difference I could hear, and I have good ears,
> I swear.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Synthacon: The case of the scratchy res pot

2006-11-10 by bbluthang

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, ken johnston <betweenpie@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have. Did not make any difference I could hear, and I have good ears,

cheers, Guess i'll stick to the cheap old trannies i always use :-0
@








> I swear.
>
> bbluthang wrote:
>
> > >
> > > If you want to experiment, I do have quite a pile of germanium
> > > transistors. Shipped anywhere, no charge.
> > >
> > Has anybody tried Ge transistors in the steiner??
> > any difference?
> >
> > also, with the euro version, could one replace the diode strings with
> > leds and put them on the panel?
> >
> > just wondering
> > Andrew
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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