Rhodes Chroma Polaris

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:58 AM
 
 Bob -
 
 I actually have them here. 
 Section 9 of the service manual has the pairs.  That's
 where I got the info, from the site.  You have a good
 idea, however...  I was looking at these but didn't
 come up with any way to do anything with them.  Your
 example would be "J" and "K", vibrato and pitch pedal, glide
 and rate pedal if you put all the cross overs together.
 
 So, you're saying check out the ribbon
 cables again for anything out of the ordinary?  That I
 can do.  Clean them with alcohol, yes?
 
 I sprayed the connectors with canned
 air and used a little Deoxy D5 on them to clean them up
 already.  Made sure they were in and lined up
 properly.
 
 Unfortunately, I can't check the side
 that is connected to the face plates because they're buried
 under the material.  Also, they're brand new. 
 Sheesh...  I also did the "S" curve as told to by the
 video.   I sure wished they would've spent a few more $
 on real connectors.  You also can't get a swab in there
 to clean the contacts better.  I wonder if an alcohol
 pad would work?
 
 Tracy
 
 **** 
  
  
  If you go to this site, and scroll
 down to the bottom, you
  can see the connections to the front
 panel membrane
  switches.
  
  These are not shown in the service
 manual schematics.
  
  
  
  http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
  
  
  
  If you look at switches A and G you
 will see that one end of
  each is common, and only the other end
 is different.
  
  One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4 and the
 other connects to J9A-4
  SWSTB5.   If something is
 shorting those two
  
  signals together, such as a solder
 splash, or possibly a bit
  of the old membrane flex still in the
 connector, then when
  
  
  you press G, you could get an A. 
  A lot of other pairs of
  switches would also be joined by such
 a short.   I suggest
  
  
  you troubleshoot the front panel issue
 and get it resolved
  before trying to troubleshoot anything
 else.  A DMM
  measuring 
  
  resistance should help to see if there
 is some kind of short
  between those two signals.
  
  
  
  Bob
  
   
  
  
  
      
       
  
      
      
  
  
  
  #yiv2966711545 #yiv2966711545 --

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       What I would suggest is that you use a multimeter
 to see if there is an electrical connection 
 
 between the two signals that I mentioned.   You can measure
 between other SWSTB pairs 
 
 to see what the resistance should be (high).   I would say
 do not unplug the flexes from the 
 
 membranes, or do any cleaning or spraying until you have
 determined if there is a problem.
 
 If you find a connection between those two signals that
 shouldn't be there, then try to figure
 
 out where the short is.   But do your measurements first,
 especially since the flexes are 
 
 somewhat fragile and you don't want to mess with them
 any more than absolutely necessary.
 
 
 
 Ideally, you use a meter and an oscilloscope to make
 measurements that indicate
 
 where problems lie, then you change chips, fix traces, etc
 to fix the problem.
 
 
 
 Bob
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@yahoo.com
 [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And
 They Are Weird
 
  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:58 AM
 
  
 
  Bob -
 
  
 
  I actually have them here. 
 
  Section 9 of the service manual has the pairs. 
 That's
 
  where I got the info, from the site.  You have a good
 
  idea, however...  I was looking at these but didn't
 
  come up with any way to do anything with them.  Your
 
  example would be "J" and "K", vibrato
 and pitch pedal, glide
 
  and rate pedal if you put all the cross overs together.
 
  
 
  So, you're saying check out the ribbon
 
  cables again for anything out of the ordinary?  That I
 
  can do.  Clean them with alcohol, yes?
 
  
 
  I sprayed the connectors with canned
 
  air and used a little Deoxy D5 on them to clean them up
 
  already.  Made sure they were in and lined up
 
  properly.
 
  
 
  Unfortunately, I can't check the side
 
  that is connected to the face plates because they're
 buried
 
  under the material.  Also, they're brand new. 
 
  Sheesh...  I also did the "S" curve as told to
 by the
 
  video.   I sure wished they would've spent a few more
 $
 
  on real connectors.  You also can't get a swab in
 there
 
  to clean the contacts better.  I wonder if an alcohol
 
  pad would work?
 
  
 
  Tracy
 
  
 
  **** 
 
   
 
   
 
   If you go to this site, and scroll
 
  down to the bottom, you
 
   can see the connections to the front
 
  panel membrane
 
   switches.
 
   
 
   These are not shown in the service
 
  manual schematics.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
  
 http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   If you look at switches A and G you
 
  will see that one end of
 
   each is common, and only the other end
 
  is different.
 
   
 
   One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4 and the
 
  other connects to J9A-4
 
   SWSTB5.   If something is
 
  shorting those two
 
   
 
   signals together, such as a solder
 
  splash, or possibly a bit
 
   of the old membrane flex still in the
 
  connector, then when
 
   
 
   
 
   you press G, you could get an A. 
 
   A lot of other pairs of
 
   switches would also be joined by such
 
  a short.   I suggest
 
   
 
   
 
   you troubleshoot the front panel issue
 
  and get it resolved
 
   before trying to troubleshoot anything
 
  else.  A DMM
 
   measuring 
 
   
 
   resistance should help to see if there
 
  is some kind of short
 
   between those two signals.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Bob

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44 PM
 
 So, stick the lack lead on one and the red
 lead on the other?  What Ohms / Volts will I be looking
 for?  Anything above 0?
 
 The membranes are pretty tough now that
 Paul redid them.  I have to watch it though because
 they have been jiggled around a bit.
 
 OK, I see - high resistance. 
 check for high Ohms on the pairs.  Unless I was sold a
 bad brand new set of face "plates", they should be
 fine.  Each line in the ribbons are good, except one
 has a small piece missing.  Still 3/4 there.
 
 Try this with the power on?
 
 Since last message, I have reseated the
 connectors and have done so much with it I should be a whiz,
 but no - just a Dummy for Electronics.  Except for
 computers, which are close but not close enough.
 
 Tracy
 
 --------------------------------------------
 On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
 [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM
  
  
   
  
  
  
    
  
  
      
        
        
        What I would
 suggest is that you use a multimeter
  to see if there is an electrical
 connection 
  
  between the two signals that I
 mentioned.   You can measure
  between other SWSTB pairs 
  
  to see what the resistance should be
 (high).   I would say
  do not unplug the flexes from the 
  
  membranes, or do any cleaning or
 spraying until you have
  determined if there is a problem.
  
  If you find a connection between those
 two signals that
  shouldn't be there, then try to
 figure
  
  out where the short is.   But do
 your measurements first,
  especially since the flexes are 
  
  somewhat fragile and you don't want to
 mess with them
  any more than absolutely necessary.
  
  
  
  Ideally, you use a meter and an
 oscilloscope to make
  measurements that indicate
  
  where problems lie, then you change
 chips, fix traces, etc
  to fix the problem.
  
  
  
  Bob
  
  
  
 
 --------------------------------------------
  
  On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
  wrote:
  
  
  
  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 Have Diagnostics Now And
  They Are Weird
  
   To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  
   Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
 12:58 AM
  
   
  
   Bob -
  
   
  
   I actually have them here. 
  
   Section 9 of the service manual
 has the pairs. 
  That's
  
   where I got the info, from the
 site.  You have a good
  
   idea, however...  I was looking
 at these but didn't
  
   come up with any way to do
 anything with them.  Your
  
   example would be "J" and "K",
 vibrato
  and pitch pedal, glide
  
   and rate pedal if you put all
 the cross overs together.
  
   
  
   So, you're saying check out the
 ribbon
  
   cables again for anything out of
 the ordinary?  That I
  
   can do.  Clean them with
 alcohol, yes?
  
   
  
   I sprayed the connectors with
 canned
  
   air and used a little Deoxy D5
 on them to clean them up
  
   already.  Made sure they were
 in and lined up
  
   properly.
  
   
  
   Unfortunately, I can't check the
 side
  
   that is connected to the face
 plates because they're
  buried
  
   under the material.  Also,
 they're brand new. 
  
   Sheesh...  I also did the "S"
 curve as told to
  by the
  
   video.   I sure wished
 they would've spent a few more
  $
  
   on real connectors.  You also
 can't get a swab in
  there
  
   to clean the contacts better. 
 I wonder if an alcohol
  
   pad would work?
  
   
  
   Tracy
  
   
  
   **** 
  
    
  
    
  
    If you go to this site, and
 scroll
  
   down to the bottom, you
  
    can see the connections to the
 front
  
   panel membrane
  
    switches.
  
    
  
    These are not shown in the
 service
  
   manual schematics.
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
   
  http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
    If you look at switches A and G
 you
  
   will see that one end of
  
    each is common, and only the
 other end
  
   is different.
  
    
  
    One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4
 and the
  
   other connects to J9A-4
  
    SWSTB5.   If something
 is
  
   shorting those two
  
    
  
    signals together, such as a
 solder
  
   splash, or possibly a bit
  
    of the old membrane flex still
 in the
  
   connector, then when
  
    
  
    
  
    you press G, you could get an
 A. 
  
    A lot of other pairs of
  
    switches would also be joined
 by such
  
   a short.   I suggest
  
    
  
    
  
    you troubleshoot the front
 panel issue
  
   and get it resolved
  
    before trying to troubleshoot
 anything
  
   else.  A DMM
  
    measuring 
  
    
  
    resistance should help to see
 if there
  
   is some kind of short
  
    between those two signals.
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
    Bob
  
 
 
 ------------------------------------
 Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
 ------------------------------------
 
 
 ------------------------------------
 
 Yahoo Groups Links
 
 
 
     (Yahoo! ID required)
 
 
     chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:53 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       Resistance is measured in ohms.
 
 
 
 You never measure resistance in a circuit with the power
 on.
 
 The meter uses its own current to measure the resistance.
 
 Any current in the same circuit from the power being on will
 
 
 cause an incorrect reading.
 
 
 
 I don't think there is anything wrong with the new
 panels.
 
 More likely something else could be causing a short between
 those 
 
 two signals.   But we haven't even determined that a
 short exists,
 
 it's just a theory at this point.
 
 
 
 As I said before, measure the resistance between other pairs
 of SWSTB signals
 
 to see what the resistance measures (should be high)   then
 compare that with 
 
 the two signals I mentioned.
 
 
 
 Maybe you should download the manual for the meter that you
 are using and 
 
 review how to use it for simple measurements?
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@yahoo.com
 [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And
 They Are Weird
 
  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44 PM
 
  
 
  So, stick the lack lead on one and the red
 
  lead on the other?  What Ohms / Volts will I be looking
 
  for?  Anything above 0?
 
  
 
  The membranes are pretty tough now that
 
  Paul redid them.  I have to watch it though because
 
  they have been jiggled around a bit.
 
  
 
  OK, I see - high resistance. 
 
  check for high Ohms on the pairs.  Unless I was sold a
 
  bad brand new set of face "plates", they should
 be
 
  fine.  Each line in the ribbons are good, except one
 
  has a small piece missing.  Still 3/4 there.
 
  
 
  Try this with the power on?
 
  
 
  Since last message, I have reseated the
 
  connectors and have done so much with it I should be a
 whiz,
 
  but no - just a Dummy for Electronics.  Except for
 
  computers, which are close but not close enough.
 
  
 
  Tracy
 
  
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
  On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
 
  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
  wrote:
 
  
 
   Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 
  Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 
   To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
   Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM
 
   
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
   
 
       
 
         
 
         
 
         What I would
 
  suggest is that you use a multimeter
 
   to see if there is an electrical
 
  connection 
 
   
 
   between the two signals that I
 
  mentioned.   You can measure
 
   between other SWSTB pairs 
 
   
 
   to see what the resistance should be
 
  (high).   I would say
 
   do not unplug the flexes from the 
 
   
 
   membranes, or do any cleaning or
 
  spraying until you have
 
   determined if there is a problem.
 
   
 
   If you find a connection between those
 
  two signals that
 
   shouldn't be there, then try to
 
  figure
 
   
 
   out where the short is.   But do
 
  your measurements first,
 
   especially since the flexes are 
 
   
 
   somewhat fragile and you don't want to
 
  mess with them
 
   any more than absolutely necessary.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Ideally, you use a meter and an
 
  oscilloscope to make
 
   measurements that indicate
 
   
 
   where problems lie, then you change
 
  chips, fix traces, etc
 
   to fix the problem.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Bob
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
  
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
   
 
   On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
 
   [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
   wrote:
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 
  Have Diagnostics Now And
 
   They Are Weird
 
   
 
    To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
   
 
    Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
 
  12:58 AM
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Bob -
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    I actually have them here. 
 
   
 
    Section 9 of the service manual
 
  has the pairs. 
 
   That's
 
   
 
    where I got the info, from the
 
  site.  You have a good
 
   
 
    idea, however...  I was looking
 
  at these but didn't
 
   
 
    come up with any way to do
 
  anything with them.  Your
 
   
 
    example would be "J" and "K",
 
  vibrato
 
   and pitch pedal, glide
 
   
 
    and rate pedal if you put all
 
  the cross overs together.
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    So, you're saying check out the
 
  ribbon
 
   
 
    cables again for anything out of
 
  the ordinary?  That I
 
   
 
    can do.  Clean them with
 
  alcohol, yes?
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    I sprayed the connectors with
 
  canned
 
   
 
    air and used a little Deoxy D5
 
  on them to clean them up
 
   
 
    already.  Made sure they were
 
  in and lined up
 
   
 
    properly.
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Unfortunately, I can't check the
 
  side
 
   
 
    that is connected to the face
 
  plates because they're
 
   buried
 
   
 
    under the material.  Also,
 
  they're brand new. 
 
   
 
    Sheesh...  I also did the "S"
 
  curve as told to
 
   by the
 
   
 
    video.   I sure wished
 
  they would've spent a few more
 
   $
 
   
 
    on real connectors.  You also
 
  can't get a swab in
 
   there
 
   
 
    to clean the contacts better. 
 
  I wonder if an alcohol
 
   
 
    pad would work?
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Tracy
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    **** 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     If you go to this site, and
 
  scroll
 
   
 
    down to the bottom, you
 
   
 
     can see the connections to the
 
  front
 
   
 
    panel membrane
 
   
 
     switches.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     These are not shown in the
 
  service
 
   
 
    manual schematics.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
    
 
  
 http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     If you look at switches A and G
 
  you
 
   
 
    will see that one end of
 
   
 
     each is common, and only the
 
  other end
 
   
 
    is different.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4
 
  and the
 
   
 
    other connects to J9A-4
 
   
 
     SWSTB5.   If something
 
  is
 
   
 
    shorting those two
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     signals together, such as a
 
  solder
 
   
 
    splash, or possibly a bit
 
   
 
     of the old membrane flex still
 
  in the
 
   
 
    connector, then when
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     you press G, you could get an
 
  A. 
 
   
 
     A lot of other pairs of
 
   
 
     switches would also be joined
 
  by such
 
   
 
    a short.   I suggest
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     you troubleshoot the front
 
  panel issue
 
   
 
    and get it resolved
 
   
 
     before trying to troubleshoot
 
  anything
 
   
 
    else.  A DMM
 
   
 
     measuring 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     resistance should help to see
 
  if there
 
   
 
    is some kind of short
 
   
 
     between those two signals.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     Bob
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  ------------------------------------
 
  Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
 
  ------------------------------------
 
  
 
  
 
  ------------------------------------
 
  
 
  Yahoo Groups Links
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
      (Yahoo! ID required)
 
  
 
  
 
      chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv5419244632 #yiv5419244632 --

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:42 AM
 
 I checked all of the matrix with the
 Fluke.  Positive results!  After a fashion...
 
 The right top board measured in the
 3.7x M Ohms range - all of them.  The left top board
 had some crap in the connector or something.  I used
 canned air first and then some Deoxy D5.  Used the
 leads in a consistent fashion and they ranged from 306 - 363
 M Ohms.  So, this is a good thing.
 
 I had to trim the ribbon cables a
 smidgeon and checked if they were even across.  After
 the Deoxy, they went in a little more than before. 
 This was the replacement board for the one in it when I
 bought it.  I think there may have been some Q.A.
 issues sending that board out but I won't get into it here.
 
 Further, broke a key but trusty old
 gorilla glue to the rescue!  
 
 Reseated EVERY DAMN chip and jumper in
 that beast and lost 1 chip.  A non-CEM, good
 thing...   $2.95 for a replacement.
 
 So, the ribbon cables check out so far,
 the key is fixed and playable and I've reseated the entire
 mutha...  I'll get that chip ASAP because it may not
 work otherwise, unless it simply cuts off one of my 6
 channels.  Z207 clan...
 
 Now what, boss?  Anything I can do
 with the chip missing or should I wait?
 
 Tracy
 
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
 [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:53 PM
  
  
   
  
  
  
    
  
  
      
        
        
        Resistance is
 measured in ohms.
  
  
  
  You never measure resistance in a
 circuit with the power
  on.
  
  The meter uses its own current to
 measure the resistance.
  
  Any current in the same circuit from
 the power being on will
  
  
  cause an incorrect reading.
  
  
  
  I don't think there is anything wrong
 with the new
  panels.
  
  More likely something else could be
 causing a short between
  those 
  
  two signals.   But we haven't
 even determined that a
  short exists,
  
  it's just a theory at this point.
  
  
  
  As I said before, measure the
 resistance between other pairs
  of SWSTB signals
  
  to see what the resistance measures
 (should be high)   then
  compare that with 
  
  the two signals I mentioned.
  
  
  
  Maybe you should download the manual
 for the meter that you
  are using and 
  
  review how to use it for simple
 measurements?
  
  
  
 
 --------------------------------------------
  
  On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
  wrote:
  
  
  
  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 Have Diagnostics Now And
  They Are Weird
  
   To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  
   Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44
 PM
  
   
  
   So, stick the lack lead on one
 and the red
  
   lead on the other?  What Ohms /
 Volts will I be looking
  
   for?  Anything above 0?
  
   
  
   The membranes are pretty tough
 now that
  
   Paul redid them.  I have to
 watch it though because
  
   they have been jiggled around a
 bit.
  
   
  
   OK, I see - high resistance. 
  
   check for high Ohms on the
 pairs.  Unless I was sold a
  
   bad brand new set of face
 "plates", they should
  be
  
   fine.  Each line in the ribbons
 are good, except one
  
   has a small piece missing. 
 Still 3/4 there.
  
   
  
   Try this with the power on?
  
   
  
   Since last message, I have
 reseated the
  
   connectors and have done so much
 with it I should be a
  whiz,
  
   but no - just a Dummy for
 Electronics.  Except for
  
   computers, which are close but
 not close enough.
  
   
  
   Tracy
  
   
  
  
 --------------------------------------------
  
   On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
  
   [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@...m>
  
   wrote:
  
   
  
    Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
 - I
  
   Have Diagnostics Now And They
 Are Weird
  
    To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  
    Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
 8:50 AM
  
    
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
    
  
        
  
          
  
          
  
          What I would
  
   suggest is that you use a
 multimeter
  
    to see if there is an
 electrical
  
   connection 
  
    
  
    between the two signals that I
  
   mentioned.   You can
 measure
  
    between other SWSTB pairs 
  
    
  
    to see what the resistance
 should be
  
   (high).   I would say
  
    do not unplug the flexes from
 the 
  
    
  
    membranes, or do any cleaning
 or
  
   spraying until you have
  
    determined if there is a
 problem.
  
    
  
    If you find a connection
 between those
  
   two signals that
  
    shouldn't be there, then try
 to
  
   figure
  
    
  
    out where the short is.  
 But do
  
   your measurements first,
  
    especially since the flexes are
 
  
    
  
    somewhat fragile and you don't
 want to
  
   mess with them
  
    any more than absolutely
 necessary.
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
    Ideally, you use a meter and
 an
  
   oscilloscope to make
  
    measurements that indicate
  
    
  
    where problems lie, then you
 change
  
   chips, fix traces, etc
  
    to fix the problem.
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
    Bob
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
   
  
  
 --------------------------------------------
  
    
  
    On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
  
    [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
  
    wrote:
  
    
  
    
  
    
  
    Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
 - I
  
   Have Diagnostics Now And
  
    They Are Weird
  
    
  
     To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
  
    
  
     Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
  
   12:58 AM
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     Bob -
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     I actually have them here. 
  
    
  
     Section 9 of the service
 manual
  
   has the pairs. 
  
    That's
  
    
  
     where I got the info, from
 the
  
   site.  You have a good
  
    
  
     idea, however...  I was
 looking
  
   at these but didn't
  
    
  
     come up with any way to do
  
   anything with them.  Your
  
    
  
     example would be "J" and
 "K",
  
   vibrato
  
    and pitch pedal, glide
  
    
  
     and rate pedal if you put
 all
  
   the cross overs together.
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     So, you're saying check out
 the
  
   ribbon
  
    
  
     cables again for anything out
 of
  
   the ordinary?  That I
  
    
  
     can do.  Clean them with
  
   alcohol, yes?
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     I sprayed the connectors
 with
  
   canned
  
    
  
     air and used a little Deoxy
 D5
  
   on them to clean them up
  
    
  
     already.  Made sure they
 were
  
   in and lined up
  
    
  
     properly.
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     Unfortunately, I can't check
 the
  
   side
  
    
  
     that is connected to the
 face
  
   plates because they're
  
    buried
  
    
  
     under the material.  Also,
  
   they're brand new. 
  
    
  
     Sheesh...  I also did the
 "S"
  
   curve as told to
  
    by the
  
    
  
     video.   I sure wished
  
   they would've spent a few more
  
    $
  
    
  
     on real connectors.  You
 also
  
   can't get a swab in
  
    there
  
    
  
     to clean the contacts
 better. 
  
   I wonder if an alcohol
  
    
  
     pad would work?
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     Tracy
  
    
  
     
  
    
  
     **** 
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      If you go to this site,
 and
  
   scroll
  
    
  
     down to the bottom, you
  
    
  
      can see the connections
 to the
  
   front
  
    
  
     panel membrane
  
    
  
      switches.
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      These are not shown in
 the
  
   service
  
    
  
     manual schematics.
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
     
  
   
  http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      If you look at switches
 A and G
  
   you
  
    
  
     will see that one end of
  
    
  
      each is common, and
 only the
  
   other end
  
    
  
     is different.
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      One connects to J9A-3
 SWSTB4
  
   and the
  
    
  
     other connects to J9A-4
  
    
  
      SWSTB5.   If
 something
  
   is
  
    
  
     shorting those two
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      signals together, such
 as a
  
   solder
  
    
  
     splash, or possibly a bit
  
    
  
      of the old membrane
 flex still
  
   in the
  
    
  
     connector, then when
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      you press G, you could
 get an
  
   A. 
  
    
  
      A lot of other pairs
 of
  
    
  
      switches would also be
 joined
  
   by such
  
    
  
     a short.   I suggest
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      you troubleshoot the
 front
  
   panel issue
  
    
  
     and get it resolved
  
    
  
      before trying to
 troubleshoot
  
   anything
  
    
  
     else.  A DMM
  
    
  
      measuring 
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      resistance should help
 to see
  
   if there
  
    
  
     is some kind of short
  
    
  
      between those two
 signals.
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      
  
    
  
      Bob
  
    
  
   
  
   
  
  
 ------------------------------------
  
   Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
  
  
 ------------------------------------
  
   
  
   
  
  
 ------------------------------------
  
   
  
   Yahoo Groups Links
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
       (Yahoo! ID required)
  
   
  
   
  
       chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
  
  
      
       
  
      
      
  
  
  
  #yiv5419244632 #yiv5419244632 --

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And
 They Are Weird
 
  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
  Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:42 AM
 
  
 
  I checked all of the matrix with the
 
  Fluke.  Positive results!  After a fashion...
 
  
 
  The right top board measured in the
 
  3.7x M Ohms range - all of them.  The left top board
 
  had some crap in the connector or something.  I used
 
  canned air first and then some Deoxy D5.  Used the
 
  leads in a consistent fashion and they ranged from 306 -
 363
 
  M Ohms.  So, this is a good thing.
 
  
 
  I had to trim the ribbon cables a
 
  smidgeon and checked if they were even across.  After
 
  the Deoxy, they went in a little more than before. 
 
  This was the replacement board for the one in it when I
 
  bought it.  I think there may have been some Q.A.
 
  issues sending that board out but I won't get into it
 here.
 
  
 
  Further, broke a key but trusty old
 
  gorilla glue to the rescue!  
 
  
 
  Reseated EVERY DAMN chip and jumper in
 
  that beast and lost 1 chip.  A non-CEM, good
 
  thing...   $2.95 for a replacement.
 
  
 
  So, the ribbon cables check out so far,
 
  the key is fixed and playable and I've reseated the
 entire
 
  mutha...  I'll get that chip ASAP because it may
 not
 
  work otherwise, unless it simply cuts off one of my 6
 
  channels.  Z207 clan...
 
  
 
  Now what, boss?  Anything I can do
 
  with the chip missing or should I wait?
 
  
 
  Tracy
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
  On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
 
  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
  wrote:
 
  
 
   Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 
  Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 
   To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
   Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:53 PM
 
   
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
   
 
       
 
         
 
         
 
         Resistance is
 
  measured in ohms.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   You never measure resistance in a
 
  circuit with the power
 
   on.
 
   
 
   The meter uses its own current to
 
  measure the resistance.
 
   
 
   Any current in the same circuit from
 
  the power being on will
 
   
 
   
 
   cause an incorrect reading.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   I don't think there is anything wrong
 
  with the new
 
   panels.
 
   
 
   More likely something else could be
 
  causing a short between
 
   those 
 
   
 
   two signals.   But we haven't
 
  even determined that a
 
   short exists,
 
   
 
   it's just a theory at this point.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   As I said before, measure the
 
  resistance between other pairs
 
   of SWSTB signals
 
   
 
   to see what the resistance measures
 
  (should be high)   then
 
   compare that with 
 
   
 
   the two signals I mentioned.
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Maybe you should download the manual
 
  for the meter that you
 
   are using and 
 
   
 
   review how to use it for simple
 
  measurements?
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
  
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
   
 
   On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
 
   [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
   wrote:
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
 
  Have Diagnostics Now And
 
   They Are Weird
 
   
 
    To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
   
 
    Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44
 
  PM
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    So, stick the lack lead on one
 
  and the red
 
   
 
    lead on the other?  What Ohms /
 
  Volts will I be looking
 
   
 
    for?  Anything above 0?
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    The membranes are pretty tough
 
  now that
 
   
 
    Paul redid them.  I have to
 
  watch it though because
 
   
 
    they have been jiggled around a
 
  bit.
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    OK, I see - high resistance. 
 
   
 
    check for high Ohms on the
 
  pairs.  Unless I was sold a
 
   
 
    bad brand new set of face
 
  "plates", they should
 
   be
 
   
 
    fine.  Each line in the ribbons
 
  are good, except one
 
   
 
    has a small piece missing. 
 
  Still 3/4 there.
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Try this with the power on?
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Since last message, I have
 
  reseated the
 
   
 
    connectors and have done so much
 
  with it I should be a
 
   whiz,
 
   
 
    but no - just a Dummy for
 
  Electronics.  Except for
 
   
 
    computers, which are close but
 
  not close enough.
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Tracy
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
   
 
    On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
 
   
 
    [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
   
 
    wrote:
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
     Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
 
  - I
 
   
 
    Have Diagnostics Now And They
 
  Are Weird
 
   
 
     To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 
   
 
     Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
 
  8:50 AM
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
         
 
   
 
           
 
   
 
           
 
   
 
           What I would
 
   
 
    suggest is that you use a
 
  multimeter
 
   
 
     to see if there is an
 
  electrical
 
   
 
    connection 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     between the two signals that I
 
   
 
    mentioned.   You can
 
  measure
 
   
 
     between other SWSTB pairs 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     to see what the resistance
 
  should be
 
   
 
    (high).   I would say
 
   
 
     do not unplug the flexes from
 
  the 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     membranes, or do any cleaning
 
  or
 
   
 
    spraying until you have
 
   
 
     determined if there is a
 
  problem.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     If you find a connection
 
  between those
 
   
 
    two signals that
 
   
 
     shouldn't be there, then try
 
  to
 
   
 
    figure
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     out where the short is.  
 
  But do
 
   
 
    your measurements first,
 
   
 
     especially since the flexes are
 
  
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     somewhat fragile and you don't
 
  want to
 
   
 
    mess with them
 
   
 
     any more than absolutely
 
  necessary.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     Ideally, you use a meter and
 
  an
 
   
 
    oscilloscope to make
 
   
 
     measurements that indicate
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     where problems lie, then you
 
  change
 
   
 
    chips, fix traces, etc
 
   
 
     to fix the problem.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     Bob
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
 
   
 
     [chromapolaris]
 <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
 
   
 
     wrote:
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
     Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
 
  - I
 
   
 
    Have Diagnostics Now And
 
   
 
     They Are Weird
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      To: chromapolaris@...m
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
 
   
 
    12:58 AM
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Bob -
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      I actually have them here. 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Section 9 of the service
 
  manual
 
   
 
    has the pairs. 
 
   
 
     That's
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      where I got the info, from
 
  the
 
   
 
    site.  You have a good
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      idea, however...  I was
 
  looking
 
   
 
    at these but didn't
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      come up with any way to do
 
   
 
    anything with them.  Your
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      example would be "J" and
 
  "K",
 
   
 
    vibrato
 
   
 
     and pitch pedal, glide
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      and rate pedal if you put
 
  all
 
   
 
    the cross overs together.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      So, you're saying check out
 
  the
 
   
 
    ribbon
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      cables again for anything out
 
  of
 
   
 
    the ordinary?  That I
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      can do.  Clean them with
 
   
 
    alcohol, yes?
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      I sprayed the connectors
 
  with
 
   
 
    canned
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      air and used a little Deoxy
 
  D5
 
   
 
    on them to clean them up
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      already.  Made sure they
 
  were
 
   
 
    in and lined up
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      properly.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Unfortunately, I can't check
 
  the
 
   
 
    side
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      that is connected to the
 
  face
 
   
 
    plates because they're
 
   
 
     buried
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      under the material.  Also,
 
   
 
    they're brand new. 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Sheesh...  I also did the
 
  "S"
 
   
 
    curve as told to
 
   
 
     by the
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      video.   I sure wished
 
   
 
    they would've spent a few more
 
   
 
     $
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      on real connectors.  You
 
  also
 
   
 
    can't get a swab in
 
   
 
     there
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      to clean the contacts
 
  better. 
 
   
 
    I wonder if an alcohol
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      pad would work?
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      Tracy
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      **** 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       If you go to this site,
 
  and
 
   
 
    scroll
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      down to the bottom, you
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       can see the connections
 
  to the
 
   
 
    front
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      panel membrane
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       switches.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       These are not shown in
 
  the
 
   
 
    service
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      manual schematics.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      
 
   
 
    
 
  
 http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       If you look at switches
 
  A and G
 
   
 
    you
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      will see that one end of
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       each is common, and
 
  only the
 
   
 
    other end
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      is different.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       One connects to J9A-3
 
  SWSTB4
 
   
 
    and the
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      other connects to J9A-4
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       SWSTB5.   If
 
  something
 
   
 
    is
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      shorting those two
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       signals together, such
 
  as a
 
   
 
    solder
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      splash, or possibly a bit
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       of the old membrane
 
  flex still
 
   
 
    in the
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      connector, then when
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       you press G, you could
 
  get an
 
   
 
    A. 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       A lot of other pairs
 
  of
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       switches would also be
 
  joined
 
   
 
    by such
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      a short.   I suggest
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       you troubleshoot the
 
  front
 
   
 
    panel issue
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      and get it resolved
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       before trying to
 
  troubleshoot
 
   
 
    anything
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      else.  A DMM
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       measuring 
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       resistance should help
 
  to see
 
   
 
    if there
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
      is some kind of short
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       between those two
 
  signals.
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
       Bob
 
   
 
     
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
  ------------------------------------
 
   
 
    Posted by: Tracy Barber
 <adirondack_pc@...>
 
   
 
   
 
  ------------------------------------
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
  ------------------------------------
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    Yahoo Groups Links
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
        (Yahoo! ID required)
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
        chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
    
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
       
 
        
 
   
 
       
 
       
 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   #yiv5419244632 #yiv5419244632 --

 Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
 To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:07 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       Transformers are just wire.  (and a thermal fuse) 
 They sometimes fail, but
 
 have a very low failure rate compared to other
 components.
 
 And they don't fail gradually.   They either work or
 they don't.
 
 
 
 The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply may need
 replacing, and the trimmer
 
 could be dirty, but the trimmer may be fine as well.  
 Replacing perfectly good 
 
 components in the power supply (not the transformer)
 probably makes more sense 
 
 than in other parts of the circuit, as a failure in the
 supply can cause damage
 
 to other sections.   But I don't usually replace
 semiconductors in a supply unless
 
 they are not working.  If a regulator has been run really
 hot for many years, I will 
 
 replace it, even if it seems to be working.
 
 
 
 But I don't understand why you would wait for a chip
 that isn't needed, since it seems
 
 you may have found an issue with a membrane flex cable.  I
 would think you would want 
 
 to see if what you did affects the operation of the front
 panel.
 
 
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv7164156214 #yiv7164156214 --