Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi,

I bought the R1800 because I do mostly, if not all, color.  I went 
after the b&W as part of the profiling process because it was 
something I could measure easily and from a consistent patch on a 
test print.  I assumed that making the B&W good it would improve the 
shadow and light colors. This may not be a good assumption.  BTW,I 
think the B&W is quite acceptable at this point.

If you don't mind I think I will post my experience in the DPReview 
forum.  I think it is a positive experience.  Who knows, I may be 
able to tweak David Miller and Andrew Rodney again.
:-)


Thanks again,

Bob Schoner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 5/12/08 2:18:00 PM, rschoner@... writes:
> 
> 
> > Thanks again for the follow up.
> > 
> > First, the easy question: What Printer?  This is an Epson R1800 
with
> > an InkRepublic Continuous Ink System and Image Specialists inks.
> > Although it has two black inks, Photo Black and Matte Black, I 
think
> > it only uses one ink at a time depending on the paper/media 
setting.
> > So, I guess that makes it a "one black" printer. It has Cyan, 
Yellow,
> > Magenta, Red and Blue for the colors. No more Photo Cyan or Photo
> > Magenta.
> > 
> Okay, the R1800 is a great color printer, but absolutely not a 
black and 
> white printer. It has no gray inks at all, and all of its grays are 
generated from 
> color inks... and not evey light tone inks, full density color 
inks. That 
> would explain your issues...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > One observation from this process--the measurements change with 
time
> > and location. The largest variations come just after the chart is
> > printed; a drying effect I guess.
> > 
> Yes, there are drying effects, but even with great patience and 
great care, 
> the R1800 is just not going to print great black and white images; 
any change 
> in the light source will cause significant changes is the percieved 
tone of 
> grays formed from color inks; so your B&W images will be green in 
one light and 
> pink in another.
> 
> >   But, I do notice a change
> > overnight. One example: 47.57, 4.39, 0.54 went to 48.77, 3.69, 
1.60. 
> > Do you have a feel for what acceptable measurement variation is? 
> > 
> While its still changing whole numbers, its not dry yet; but as I 
note above, 
> the R1800 is not going to produce gallery quality B&W no matter how 
exacting 
> you are.
> 
> > Your suggestion to back up the measurement charts with extra 
paper is
> > very good. I notice a variation if I do not back up the paper. I 
also
> > notice some variation within the measurement patch, I guess that's
> > the printer/ink.
> > 
> > I tried the PhotoShop ACV curve correction process but did not 
have
> > good luck. I used the R channel since the image had a pinkish cast
> > but the error was so slight a small adjustment fixes the SoftProof
> > but the print is not correct. I tried assigning the printer 
profile
> > to the test image and then "auto correct" with the curves layer 
but
> > that's disastrous. I guess that's why I asked about a LAB 
correction
> > option in Spyder.  BTW, I find the SpyderProof "exagerates" the
> > errors/correction compared to PhotoShop or QImage soft Proof.
> > 
> Probably because it factors in ink black and paper white. If you 
check those 
> boxes in Photoshop, results should be equivalent.
> > 
> > Sorry for the long post but, in spite of the effort involved, it 
is
> > still fun.  Just wish I knew more.
> > 
> > Well, you may know something now that you didn't previously. An 
R2400 would 
> produce gallery quality, visually stable B&W prints (as would a 
3800, a Canon 
> iPF5000 or a Pro9500) but the R1800 is aimed very much in the other 
direction: 
> glossy color prints. Which is not to say you can't improve your B&W 
results, 
> just that they won't ever be stable enough to do gallery quality 
B&W.
> 
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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