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Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by Rocky Egner

I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but here goes:

I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing the
same with PhotoShop CS 2.

Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated my
Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.

I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
camera) of myself with my grandson.

For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.

This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
green is being printed out.

I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
*The pic original profile is sRGB
*Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
*Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
*Rendering Intent: Perceptual
*Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"

The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a profile.

I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB. 

Can anyone give me suggestions?

Re: [colorvision_group] Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by David Miller

>I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but here goes:
>
>I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing the
>same with PhotoShop CS 2.
>
>Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated my
>Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.
>
>I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
>camera) of myself with my grandson.
>
>For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
>color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
>grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
>
>This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
>green is being printed out.
>
>I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
>*The pic original profile is sRGB
>*Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
>*Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
>*Rendering Intent: Perceptual
>*Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"
>
>The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a profile.
>
>I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
>Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB.
>
>Can anyone give me suggestions?

Sounds like a problem with the measurements to me. If you can email the
measurement .xml file to me at davem@..., I'll have a look!

Best regards,


-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

Re: [colorvision_group] Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 9/21/06 12:33:19 PM, rockyegner@... writes:


For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.


Your general description of your process sounds correct, but the devil's in the details. I recall one ColorVision profile, from an earlier product, that had a bust

Re: [colorvision_group] Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 9/21/06 12:33:19 PM, rockyegner@... writes:


For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.


I recall one ColorVision profile from a previous product that had a bust specifically in the red hair zone, and required editing, but I can't recall the printer/inks/paer involved. Somethings a localized issue has to do with bad patch readings, other times it can be circumvented by using a different rendering intent. But its always most satisfying to eliminate it, not work around it...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...

www.colorvision.com

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by Rocky Egner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 9/21/06 12:33:19 PM, rockyegner@... writes:
> 
> 
> > For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
> > color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
> > grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
> > 
> 
> I recall one ColorVision profile from a previous product that had a
bust 
> specifically in the red hair zone, and required editing, but I can't
recall the 
> printer/inks/paer involved. Somethings a localized issue has to do
with bad 
> patch readings, other times it can be circumvented by using a
different rendering 
> intent. But its always most satisfying to eliminate it, not work
around it...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
Thanks for reply. As per Dave's request, I emailed him my xml file
alond with the picture ;)

I hope he receives it ok. 

I did print it different renderings but the green were still there.

I'm using Canon i9900 printer with Canon brand inks on HP Preium photo
paper.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 9/21/06 1:34:31 PM, rockyegner@... writes:


I'm using Canon i9900 printer with Canon brand inks on HP Preium photo
paper.



A combination (well, except perhaps for the particular HP media) that I've profiled with great success with PrintFIX PRO; so I'll bet on the measurement file, at least until Dave says different...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...

www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by David Miller

>I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but here goes:
>
>I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing the
>same with PhotoShop CS 2.
>
>Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated my
>Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.
>
>I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
>camera) of myself with my grandson.
>
>For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
>color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
>grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
>
>This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
>green is being printed out.
>
>I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
>*The pic original profile is sRGB
>*Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
>*Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
>*Rendering Intent: Perceptual
>*Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"
>
>The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a profile.
>
>I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
>Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB.
>
>Can anyone give me suggestions?
>

Rocky,

It looks to me like you're seeing good results everywhere but in the
shadows with the profile you built.

Looking at your measurements: at first glance, they seem fine. Everything
seems as it should in the main groups of 5x5 evenly spaced RGB colors
(the first 5 rows, and the first two groups in the middle row).

But where I'm seeing some subtle things that might not "fit" with the rest
are in the shadow measurements, in the 11 A-E through 15 A-E group. There
are some "interesting" shifts in color in some of the patches that a) if
printed and measured correctly, may be hard to profile with only 225 patches,
or b) may not be measuring correctly.

To confirm this, I built a profile, looked at in ColorThink, and I can
see some "twisting" going on in the shadows, in the tail of the profile
gamut shape. (Also apparent is that black is pretty far off neutral).

This isn't the kind of "crunched" or "dented" profile shape that's a good
indication of bad things in the measurements (we had an example like this
a few weeks ago, where one incorrectly measured row in a 729 patch target
caused a big problem), but this is still a sign that something's off.

Suggestions:

- I think you're going to want to profile this with 729 patches rather than
225, so first thing to do is print out the 3 page, 729 patch target and let
it start drying.

- In the meantime: go back and try remeasuring the patches in 11 A-E through
15 A-E. I would switch the Target window display from Split to Measured,
then watch carefully as you remeasure patches, 12B and 13B in particular.
Does remeasuring change anything, or do the new measurements look like the
old?


Best regards,

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-21 by Rocky Egner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:
>
> >I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but
here goes:
> >
> >I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing the
> >same with PhotoShop CS 2.
> >
> >Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated my
> >Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.
> >
> >I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
> >camera) of myself with my grandson.
> >
> >For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
> >color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
> >grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
> >
> >This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
> >green is being printed out.
> >
> >I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
> >*The pic original profile is sRGB
> >*Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
> >*Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
> >*Rendering Intent: Perceptual
> >*Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"
> >
> >The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a profile.
> >
> >I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
> >Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB.
> >
> >Can anyone give me suggestions?
> >
> 
> Rocky,
> 
> It looks to me like you're seeing good results everywhere but in the
> shadows with the profile you built.
> 
> Looking at your measurements: at first glance, they seem fine.
Everything
> seems as it should in the main groups of 5x5 evenly spaced RGB colors
> (the first 5 rows, and the first two groups in the middle row).
> 
> But where I'm seeing some subtle things that might not "fit" with
the rest
> are in the shadow measurements, in the 11 A-E through 15 A-E group.
There
> are some "interesting" shifts in color in some of the patches that a) if
> printed and measured correctly, may be hard to profile with only 225
patches,
> or b) may not be measuring correctly.
> 
> To confirm this, I built a profile, looked at in ColorThink, and I can
> see some "twisting" going on in the shadows, in the tail of the profile
> gamut shape. (Also apparent is that black is pretty far off neutral).
> 
> This isn't the kind of "crunched" or "dented" profile shape that's a
good
> indication of bad things in the measurements (we had an example like
this
> a few weeks ago, where one incorrectly measured row in a 729 patch
target
> caused a big problem), but this is still a sign that something's off.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> - I think you're going to want to profile this with 729 patches
rather than
> 225, so first thing to do is print out the 3 page, 729 patch target
and let
> it start drying.
> 
> - In the meantime: go back and try remeasuring the patches in 11 A-E
through
> 15 A-E. I would switch the Target window display from Split to Measured,
> then watch carefully as you remeasure patches, 12B and 13B in
particular.
> Does remeasuring change anything, or do the new measurements look
like the
> old?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
>

Thanks Dave,
I'm letting the 729 patches dry over night, during the mean time I
re-measured the rows as you said, I did not notice any real changes in
the colors.

The pics are still the same, I have a green beard.

I'll meassure the 729 patch tomorrow and let you know.

Thhanks
Rocky

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-22 by Keith R.

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Rocky Egner" 
<rockyegner@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but 
here goes:
> 
> I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing 
the
> same with PhotoShop CS 2.
> 
> Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated 
my
> Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.
> 
> I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
> camera) of myself with my grandson.
> 
> For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a 
green
> color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
> grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
> 
> This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
> green is being printed out.
> 
> I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
> *The pic original profile is sRGB
> *Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
> *Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
> *Rendering Intent: Perceptual
> *Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"
> 
> The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a 
profile.
> 
> I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
> Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB. 
> 
> Can anyone give me suggestions?
>

Hi!

I'm no expert, and the principles of this forum have the answers, but 
I am wondering if, before you began to calibrate and printed your 
patches, did you run a nozzle check. As I stated, I'm not an expert, 
just courious as to if you are sure all your colors are printing.

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-22 by Rocky Egner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:
>
> >I don't know if this is the right place to post by problem, but
here goes:
> >
> >I'm reviewing the PFP Suite during it's 30 day trail and am doing the
> >same with PhotoShop CS 2.
> >
> >Long story short: Calibrated my monitor with Spypro2 and calibrated my
> >Canon i9900 with building a 225 patch to HP Preium Photo Paper.
> >
> >I'm doing a 4x6 print taken from Kodak LS400 (4 magepix digital
> >camera) of myself with my grandson.
> >
> >For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a green
> >color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
> >grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
> >
> >This green doesn't appear in the Photoshop preview window. But the
> >green is being printed out.
> >
> >I'm using the following settings in Photoshop CS2:
> >*The pic original profile is sRGB
> >*Options: Color Handling: "Let Photoshop Determine Colors"
> >*Printer Profile: (profile name I built using PFP)
> >*Rendering Intent: Perceptual
> >*Unchecked "Black Point Compensation"
> >
> >The printer's settings are the same as I used while building a profile.
> >
> >I've tried everything I can think of from converting the pic "Color
> >Management" in Photosho Editing from sRGB to Adobe RGB.
> >
> >Can anyone give me suggestions?
> >
> 
> Rocky,
> 
> It looks to me like you're seeing good results everywhere but in the
> shadows with the profile you built.
> 
> Looking at your measurements: at first glance, they seem fine.
Everything
> seems as it should in the main groups of 5x5 evenly spaced RGB colors
> (the first 5 rows, and the first two groups in the middle row).
> 
> But where I'm seeing some subtle things that might not "fit" with
the rest
> are in the shadow measurements, in the 11 A-E through 15 A-E group.
There
> are some "interesting" shifts in color in some of the patches that a) if
> printed and measured correctly, may be hard to profile with only 225
patches,
> or b) may not be measuring correctly.
> 
> To confirm this, I built a profile, looked at in ColorThink, and I can
> see some "twisting" going on in the shadows, in the tail of the profile
> gamut shape. (Also apparent is that black is pretty far off neutral).
> 
> This isn't the kind of "crunched" or "dented" profile shape that's a
good
> indication of bad things in the measurements (we had an example like
this
> a few weeks ago, where one incorrectly measured row in a 729 patch
target
> caused a big problem), but this is still a sign that something's off.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> - I think you're going to want to profile this with 729 patches
rather than
> 225, so first thing to do is print out the 3 page, 729 patch target
and let
> it start drying.
> 
> - In the meantime: go back and try remeasuring the patches in 11 A-E
through
> 15 A-E. I would switch the Target window display from Split to Measured,
> then watch carefully as you remeasure patches, 12B and 13B in
particular.
> Does remeasuring change anything, or do the new measurements look
like the
> old?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
>


Dave,
I just finished reading the 729 patches.

The difference between the 225 & 729 are very, subtle. I still have
the green cast though?

Have you any suggestions?

Perhaps I'll try the slider bar option giving at the end of measuring
color charts.

Which color and what direction do you suggest?

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-22 by John Vitollo

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Rocky Egner" <rockyegner@...> wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> I just finished reading the 729 patches.
> 
> The difference between the 225 & 729 are very, subtle. I still have
> the green cast though?
> 
> Have you any suggestions?

Keith mentioned a clogged nozzle and that was my first thought also...

Have you done a nozzle check?

Re: Perplexed by PFP and Photoshop CS2 Combination??

2006-09-28 by peter_woelk

Hi Rocky,
HP Premium Paper is of swellable polymer type and absolutely not
recommended for Canon printers and inks. Ink pooling (worm like
structures in darker areas of the printed pfp target) will thwart
correct patch readings. Drying time is extreme long (days even with
the recommended HP printers).
Try nanoporous papers.

Best regards,
Peter

PS
excute my bat english


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Rocky Egner"
<rockyegner@...> wrote:
>
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In a message dated 9/21/06 12:33:19 PM, rockyegner@ writes:
> > 
> > 
> > > For some reason I cannot identify why the print comes out with a
green
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > color on what should be a Reddiseh/Auburn color (my beard,hair & my
> > > grandson hair). My and my grandson's skin tone appears correct.
> > > 
> > 
> > I recall one ColorVision profile from a previous product that had a
> bust 
> > specifically in the red hair zone, and required editing, but I can't
> recall the 
> > printer/inks/paer involved. Somethings a localized issue has to do
> with bad 
> > patch readings, other times it can be circumvented by using a
> different rendering 
> > intent. But its always most satisfying to eliminate it, not work
> around it...
> > 
> > C. David Tobie
> > Product Technology Manager
> > ColorVision Business Unit
> > Datacolor Inc.
> > CDTobie@
> > www.colorvision.com
> >
> Thanks for reply. As per Dave's request, I emailed him my xml file
> alond with the picture ;)
> 
> I hope he receives it ok. 
> 
> I did print it different renderings but the green were still there.
> 
> I'm using Canon i9900 printer with Canon brand inks on HP Preium photo
> paper.
>

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