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Questions about measuring targets

Questions about measuring targets

2007-04-24 by gene_lugo

Hi All, 

I'm using a Canon i9100 and Printfix Pro Suite, current version. I am 
having some difficulty profiling, but I also have some basic 
questions as to what to expect.

I've printed a 729 patch three page target, making sure there are no 
settings producing any color management in the printer driver, and 
did the test for the best media settings.

The first question. Shouldn't the measured target screen view 
somewhat resemble the colors in the printed target? The colors are 
all off, and in most cases darker than the printed target. For 
example, on the third page, row 14, columns G through I show gray 
patches on the screen view, yet the printed target has very light 
yellow.

The final profile has a distinct red cast, and is darker and more 
contrasty than the on screen view. The gray ramp looks ok as far as 
gray values are concerned, but their is a section that has a very 
light red cast in the lighter area, and further down there is a 
slight yellow cast. How do you get rid of this?

In the test image, the shadows have a reddish cast, and the area 
behind the sunflower also has a red cast. Adding cyan doesn't remove 
it completely. But the question here is shouldn't the image after 
profiling be reasonably close to the screen image? Isn't that the 
whole purpose of profiling the monitor and the printer? 

I hope I am doing something wrong, so I can fix it by improving my 
technique. I have gotten good results with kodak premium plus glossy, 
admittedly not a great paper, and epson premium glossy photo - but I 
feel that it was more by accident than by design. In each case, the 
first printed results after profiling had contrast and color casts, 
which I was able to remove with the tweaks in Printfix Pro.

Any and all advice would be most welcomed.

Thanks.

Re: [colorvision_group] Questions about measuring targets

2007-04-24 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 4/24/07 9:45:21 AM, gene51@... writes:


I'm using a Canon i9100 and Printfix Pro Suite, current version. I am
having some difficulty profiling, but I also have some basic
questions as to what to expect.

I've printed a 729 patch three page target, making sure there are no
settings producing any color management in the printer driver, and
did the test for the best media settings.


Thats certainly the slow way to do your testing. Its most reasonable to work with tthe 225 patch targets, at least until you have everything figured out.

The first question. Shouldn't the measured target screen view
somewhat resemble the colors in the printed target?


Not really, one is raw RGB color on screen, the other is measured print colors from an unknown printer, ink and paper combination... generally speaking printer output will be signficantly darker.

The colors are
all off, and in most cases darker than the printed target.


Sounds right...

For
example, on the third page, row 14, columns G through I show gray
patches on the screen view, yet the printed target has very light
yellow.


I wouldn't worry about this until after I'd built a profile and tested it...

The final profile has a distinct red cast, and is darker and more
contrasty than the on screen view. The gray ramp looks ok as far as
gray values are concerned, but their is a section that has a very
light red cast in the lighter area, and further down there is a
slight yellow cast. How do you get rid of this?


So you are seeing two color casts in grays, and an overall cast? That could mean you are simply doing something wrong in the process, or it could be related to metamerism, but its sounds more like process error...

In the test image, the shadows have a reddish cast, and the area
behind the sunflower also has a red cast. Adding cyan doesn't remove
it completely. But the question here is shouldn't the image after
profiling be reasonably close to the screen image? Isn't that the
whole purpose of profiling the monitor and the printer?


I'd suspect patch reading issues. Start by printing and carefully reading a 225 patch target, using minimal margins to get good big patches. If that target does not produce nearly identical print results, that would indicate that one or the other or both profiles were done incorrectly.

I hope I am doing something wrong, so I can fix it by improving my
technique.


That would be my first guess...

I have gotten good results with kodak premium plus glossy,
admittedly not a great paper, and epson premium glossy photo - but I
feel that it was more by accident than by design. In each case, the
first printed results after profiling had contrast and color casts,
which I was able to remove with the tweaks in Printfix Pro.


Shouldn't have to do that... certainly not to any significant degree. You would need to send me (me, not the list) detailed info about your process, print sizes, copies of your measurement XML files, etc, for me to troubleshoot this.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: Questions about measuring targets

2007-04-25 by northportphoneguy

Just a note which may help.  I have the i9100 also and have profiled 
both the old Epson Colorlife paper and the Ilford Classic Pearl.

I found two things.  One is to measure with a blank paper beneath the 
test paper and the other is to wait, wait, wait.  I let the test page 
dry/stabilize for a week before I measured and I wait hours before I 
judge test images.

I printed the same image a week apart and was astonished at the 
difference in color cast.  In a couple of hours the new one was closer 
to the original.  Within a day or two, they were the same.

Oh, don't forget to adjust to optical brighteners if the paper has it.

RE: [colorvision_group] Re: Questions about measuring targets

2007-04-25 by Gene Lugo

I just redid everything and paid extra attention to media settings, and found the results much closer to the screen view, and instead of a red cast I now have a gentler warmer tone, and a little extra contrast and saturation, all within the adjustment capabilities of the PFP sliders. I will do the same again but waiting a little longer, and see what happens. Thanks for the info.

From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of northportphoneguy
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:37 AM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Questions about measuring targets

Just a note which may help. I have the i9100 also and have profiled
both the old Epson Colorlife paper and the Ilford Classic Pearl.

I found two things. One is to measure with a blank paper beneath the
test paper and the other is to wait, wait, wait. I let the test page
dry/stabilize for a week before I measured and I wait hours before I
judge test images.

I printed the same image a week apart and was astonished at the
difference in color cast. In a couple of hours the new one was closer
to the original. Within a day or two, they were the same.

Oh, don't forget to adjust to optical brighteners if the paper has it.

RE: [colorvision_group] Re: Questions about measuring targets

2007-04-27 by Gene Lugo

You were right - waiting before reading and evaluating makes a difference. Thanks for the info.

From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of northportphoneguy
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:37 AM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Questions about measuring targets

Just a note which may help. I have the i9100 also and have profiled
both the old Epson Colorlife paper and the Ilford Classic Pearl.

I found two things. One is to measure with a blank paper beneath the
test paper and the other is to wait, wait, wait. I let the test page
dry/stabilize for a week before I measured and I wait hours before I
judge test images.

I printed the same image a week apart and was astonished at the
difference in color cast. In a couple of hours the new one was closer
to the original. Within a day or two, they were the same.

Oh, don't forget to adjust to optical brighteners if the paper has it.

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