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High quality target for CD/DVD printing

High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-07 by Antonio Bayma Jr

Does anyone have prepared high quality target (225 patches) for CD/DVD profiling? I would like give it a try as I suspect fast target would be insufficient to produce good blues (without purpleing) and some saturated tones. Or maybe I don't know how to force Vista to work only with saturation intent. Generally speaking, unprofiled CD/DVD printing is currently archiving more tone/saturation matching than the 150-patch profiled one. The printer is a Canon IP4300 with non-OEM inks.
By the way, what would be the smallest patch size that would still be correctly readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer?
Thanks in advance,
Antonio

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by Antonio Bayma Jr

Hi all,
I'd like to inform people that I managed to put those 225 patches along 4 CD surface targets, and that I would be glad to share them with anyone who might be interested in (please, contact me privately). Regarding to the 225-patch generated profile, it didn't solve the problem I reported on previous message, so I had to investigate further. I found an inconsistency with the drivers for the Canon IP4300 (at least those brazilian/portuguese ones). Unlike it occurs when I select matte or professional papers on printing configuration panel, the drivers ignore the profile chose as default on the Vista color management panel (necessary to apply a given profile to printing jobs made by non-native color profiling support applications) when the printer is configured to None as Color Correction and media type is "Normal paper" or "Printable disc". Someone may argue that this should be the expected behavior. It might be, but the fact is that the drivers behave differently with other kind of selected media types. I had reprinted the targets for normal paper and CD surface using the Manual/ICM option. The result was a totally beautiful printing, with correct blues and an adequate saturation for what it should be expected for normal papers and disc surfaces -- although it seems, by comparison, Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on color management panel.
One question remains: what's the mininum printed size for a patch to be still correct readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer? I would like to construct a 729 patch set of targets for CD profiling, feasable along 6 or a maximum of 7 discs, or to implement the grey target into the same quantity of disc targets.
Regards,
Antonio
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:02 AM
Subject: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

Does anyone have prepared high quality target (225 patches) for CD/DVD profiling? I would like give it a try as I suspect fast target would be insufficient to produce good blues (without purpleing) and some saturated tones. Or maybe I don't know how to force Vista to work only with saturation intent. Generally speaking, unprofiled CD/DVD printing is currently archiving more tone/saturation matching than the 150-patch profiled one. The printer is a Canon IP4300 with non-OEM inks.
;
By the way, what would be the smallest patch size that would still be correctly readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer?
Thanks in advance,
Antonio

RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by LAURIE

>Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite
of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on >color management
panel.

 

I am not sure what has led you to this conclusion.  I opened up the Color
Management item in the Vista Control panel and saw that while perceptual was
the default rendering other rendering intents were available options.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Antonio Bayma Jr
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:59 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

 

Hi all,

 

I'd like to inform people that I managed to put those 225 patches along 4 CD
surface targets, and that I would be glad to share them with anyone who
might be interested in (please, contact me privately). Regarding to the
225-patch generated profile, it didn't solve the problem I reported on
previous message, so I had to investigate further. I found an inconsistency
with the drivers for the Canon IP4300 (at least those brazilian/portuguese
ones). Unlike it occurs when I select matte or professional papers on
printing configuration panel, the drivers ignore the profile chose as
default on the Vista color management panel (necessary to apply a given
profile to printing jobs made by non-native color profiling support
applications) when the printer is configured to None as Color Correction and
media type is "Normal paper" or "Printable disc". Someone may argue that
this should be the expected behavior. It might be, but the fact is that the
drivers behave differently with other kind of selected media types. I had
reprinted the targets for normal paper and CD surface using the Manual/ICM
option. The result was a totally beautiful printing, with correct blues and
an adequate saturation for what it should be expected for normal papers and
disc surfaces -- although it seems, by comparison, Windows Vista color
management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of
settings combinations I have tried on color management panel.

 

One question remains: what's the mininum printed size for a patch to be
still correct readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer? I
would like to construct a 729 patch set of targets for CD profiling,
feasable along 6 or a maximum of 7 discs, or to implement the grey target
into the same quantity of disc targets.

 

Regards,

 

Antonio

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Antonio Bayma Jr <mailto:abaymajr@...>  

To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:02 AM

Subject: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

 

Does anyone have prepared high quality target (225 patches) for CD/DVD
profiling? I would like give it a try as I suspect fast target would be
insufficient to produce good blues (without purpleing) and some saturated
tones. Or maybe I don't know how to force Vista to work only with saturation
intent. Generally speaking, unprofiled CD/DVD printing is currently
archiving more tone/saturation matching than the 150-patch profiled one. The
printer is a Canon IP4300 with non-OEM inks.

 

By the way, what would be the smallest patch size that would still be
correctly readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Antonio

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/14/08 12:26:50 AM, laurie@... writes:



>Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on >color management panel.

I am not sure what has led you to this conclusion. I opened up the Color Management item in the Vista Control panel and saw that while perceptual was the default rendering other rendering intents were available options.


Options being listed, and differing intents actually being used are not necessarily the same thing. Printing conversions typically offer differing intents, other conversions often do not. The default intent (which is seldom actually perceptual) is often put in the perceptual slot, and used for all conversions if the conversion is an XYZ based conversion, instead of a Lab based one, in other words for source profiles, instead of printer profiles.

The Vista color control panel looks great, its a bit more difficult to determine what it actually does...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/13/08 10:59:23 PM, abaymajr@... writes:


I'd like to inform people that I managed to put those 225 patches along 4 CD surface targets, and that I would be glad to share them with anyone who might be interested in (please, contact me privately). Regarding to the 225-patch generated profile, it didn't solve the problem I reported on previous message, so I had to investigate further. I found an inconsistency with the drivers for the Canon IP4300 (at least those brazilian/portuguese ones). Unlike it occurs when I select matte or professional papers on printing configuration panel, the drivers ignore the profile chose as default on the Vista color management panel (necessary to apply a given profile to printing jobs made by non-native color profiling support applications) when the printer is configured to None as Color Correction and media type is "Normal paper" or "Printable disc". Someone may argue that this should be the expected behavior.

I don't believe anyone will argue that its ideal behavior, but unfortunately is expected behavior...

It might be, but the fact is that the drivers behave differently with other kind of selected media types. I had reprinted the targets for normal paper and CD surface using the Manual/ICM option. The result was a totally beautiful printing, with correct blues and an adequate saturation for what it should be expected for normal papers and disc surfaces --

Glad to hear that your disc profiles are doing their job, we don't get a lot of feedback on that feature.

although it seems, by comparison, Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on color management panel.

If you want intent control, I'd recommend printing your discs out of Photoshop...

One question remains: what's the mininum printed size for a patch to be still correct readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer? I would like to construct a 729 patch set of targets for CD profiling, feasable along 6 or a maximum of 7 discs, or to implement the grey target into the same quantity of disc targets.

The outside diameter of the nosecone is about 9mm, the inside diameter of it (the illuminated area) is about 7mm. The measured diameter within the illuminated area is about 5mm. But you really need to have the whole 7mm the same color, or translucency effects can effect the result (thats what the overillumination is for in the first place). Besides, you would have to be omniscent to know how to place the nosecone on a patch any smaller than 9mm. So, in a practical sense, tightly placed 9mm square patches could be read, with care and patience.



C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by LAURIE

>Options being listed, and differing intents actually being used are not
necessarily the same thing. Printing conversions typically >offer differing
intents, other conversions often do not. 

 

It is true that the listing of options and the actual use of them are "not
necessarily" the same thing in Vista or anywhere else; but I suppose that
users have to have some faith in their being the same thing until proven
otherwise.  If there is evidence that they are not the same in Vista or any
other program, I think that the user has an obligation to report that to the
offending software producer so that they may correct it.  While printing
conversions do typically offer differing intents and other conversions do
not, I have to assume that when a dialog box offers the user the ability to
select intent as the Vista CM panel does the selection will govern those
conversions that can make use of it until proven otherwise.

 

>The default intent (which is seldom actually perceptual) is often put in
the perceptual slot, and used for all conversions if the >conversion is an
XYZ based conversion, instead of a Lab based one, in other words for source
profiles, instead of printer >profiles.

 

Not be argumentative, but I am not sure that I get your suggested meaning
here.  What do you mean by its not being "actually perceptual?"  What is
"actual perceptual" and is there a commonly accepted standard for defining
that?  Since specifically in the case of the Vista CM panel the intent
option consists of a drop down box that in my particular case includes not
only the various rendering intents found in Photoshop but some options that
map those rendering intents to the Microsoft WCS system, I have to wonder
why they would put a non-"perceptual rendering intent" in the perceptual
slot listed as being "perceptual."

 

Under the "Advanced" tab in the Vista "Color Management" panel, there is a
place that you can click on which will bring up a description of the panel
settings; it says:

 <mshelp://> mshelp:///I see a setting for  <mshelp://> "default rendering
intent" on the Advanced Tab in Color Management. What is rendering intent
and should I ever change its default setting?

A rendering intent determines how colors are represented when changing from
one device <mshelp://windows/?id=2af33251-a510-4f87-bd16-6b6e5fda2e04>  (and
consequently, color space) to another. You can think of rendering intent as
a style of rendering colors; it is the approach that Windows uses to choose
the right colors when displaying or printing.

If your program does not specify its own rendering intent, you can specify
the default rendering intent that's used. There are four common rendering
intents that cover the most common uses. Depending upon the rendering
intent, the appearance of a picture will be slightly different, since
Windows will use a different range of available colors to render it. These
are the four rendering intents in common use:


Rendering intent

Common use


Perceptual (photo images)

Best for photographic images. When colors are converted from one device's
color space to another, the relationship between colors is maintained.


Relative Colorimetric (line art)

Best when a few specific colors must be matched exactly, such as when
rendering logo graphics. This is also the best choice for the last
transformation stage in print previews. The colors that fall within the
allowable color space of both devices are left unchanged, but other colors
may change, resulting in compressed color tone. The relative colorimetric
rendering intent will map white from the source device color space to white
in the destination device color space.


Absolute Colorimetric (simulate paper)

Best for use in the last transformation stage when making page proofs where
you want to represent the paper color in the output. Absolute colorimetric
intent differs from relative colorimetric intent in that white in the source
color space is not mapped to white in the destination color space.


Saturation (charts and graphs)

Best for business graphics in which vividness is more important than
realistic color, such as with business charts and graphs. When colors are
converted from one device's color space to another, the relative hue is
maintained, but colors may shift.

Note

.         The Advanced tab also allows you to specify a mapping between WCS
gamut-mapping model profiles and the four common rendering intents. In
general, you should only change these rendering intent mappings if you have
installed third-party WCS plug-in gamut-mapping methods and you want to use
those instead of the default WCS gamut mapping. Most users will never need
to change these settings.

 

From the above and what I saw in the CM panel, I think that Vista does
distinguish between what settings refer to the traditional ICC profile based
CM system and their WSC system (which really has not been fully implemented
in Vista or other programs to date) and does make it clear that the
rendering intent refers to device profiles and not editting space or XYZ
profiles. However, I am not sure that it makes any real difference if the
devices MS refers to here are  source devices - if by that you mean input
devices - or output devices such as printer with a few notable exceptions.
The exceptions which I allude to are (a) that the rendering intent may only
be applied by the Vista CM system to printer profiles but not to other
device profiles and/or (b) that the rendering intent may be embedded into a
source device profile by Vista or, if already so embedded, read by Vista
when rendering the color space in other devices such as monitor displays,
printers, etc.   However, if you mean something different  from how I
construed it by the term "source profile" then I need some further
elaboration by you of what you are referring to.

 

> The Vista color control panel looks great, its a bit more difficult to
determine what it actually does

 

On this we are in agreement. J  This is especially true for the WCS
functions.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:26 AM
To: laurie@...; colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

 


In a message dated 8/14/08 12:26:50 AM, laurie@... writes:




>Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite
of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on >color management
panel.
 
I am not sure what has led you to this conclusion.  I opened up the Color
Management item in the Vista Control panel and saw that while perceptual was
the default rendering other rendering intents were available options.


Options being listed, and differing intents actually being used are not
necessarily the same thing. Printing conversions typically offer differing
intents, other conversions often do not. The default intent (which is seldom
actually perceptual) is often put in the perceptual slot, and used for all
conversions if the conversion is an XYZ based conversion, instead of a Lab
based one, in other words for source profiles, instead of printer profiles. 

The Vista color control panel looks great, its a bit more difficult to
determine what it actually does...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000
017 )

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/14/08 12:40:52 PM, laurie@... writes:



>The default intent (which is seldom actually perceptual) is often put in the perceptual slot, and used for all conversions if the >conversion is an XYZ based conversion, instead of a Lab based one, in other words for source profiles, instead of printer >profiles.

Not be argumentative, but I am not sure that I get your suggested meaning here. What do you mean by its not being “actually perceptual?” What is “actual perceptual” and is there a commonly accepted standard for defining that?


Perceptual is typically defined as being mapped or compresses in such a way as to create a pleasing, not literal, result. The data typically put in an XYZ profile's Perceptual slot does not meet that definition. Its put there, not because its perceptual, but because thats the slot where data is typically retrieved from. I note all of this simply to point out that the information commonly included in color management sections of end user guides and books tends to have a simple description of intents and conversions, and users tend to be unaware that this really only has to do with printing, and that there are other places where profiles (and potentially intents) can be selected, where these descriptions do not really hold true. The WCS control panel may well be such a place... I really can't say.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by LAURIE

Thanks!  That does help a little with clarifying your intent (perceptual or otherwise) as well as what you were saying.  J

 

For the record, I think that Vista’s color management system when it is not used with their WCS but with the traditional ICC profile color management system via the printer driver’s ICM setting does not allow for the user selection of rendering intent as does Photoshop, although it will take such intents into account if they are included in the device profile being used  or embedded in the image file sent to it if that device profile is associated with the printer at the OS level and is defined as the default profile for that printer.  In short when used in the traditional ICM manner (not in the WCS manner), the Vista color management qworks the same as OS color management in XP.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:54 AM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

 


In a message dated 8/14/08 12:40:52 PM, laurie@... writes:




>The default intent (which is seldom actually perceptual) is often put in the perceptual slot, and used for all conversions if the >conversion is an XYZ based conversion, instead of a Lab based one, in other words for source profiles, instead of printer >profiles.
 
Not be argumentative, but I am not sure that I get your suggested meaning here.  What do you mean by its not being “actually perceptual?”  What is “actual perceptual” and is there a commonly accepted standard for defining that?


Perceptual is typically defined as being mapped or compresses in such a way as to create a pleasing, not literal, result. The data typically put in an XYZ profile's Perceptual slot does not meet that definition. Its put there, not because its perceptual, but because thats the slot where data is typically retrieved from. I note all of this simply to point out that the information commonly included in color management sections of end user guides and books tends to have a simple description of intents and conversions, and users tend to be unaware that this really only has to do with printing, and that there are other places where profiles (and potentially intents) can be selected, where these descriptions do not really hold true. The WCS control panel may well be such a place... I really can't say.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/14/08 1:47:37 PM, laurie@... writes:


In short when used in the traditional ICM manner (not in the WCS manner), the Vista color management works the same as OS color management in XP.

Yes, my experience with it is that the WCS control panel, when used in ICC mode, is a nice looking interface for making the exact same calls one could make under XP (and Win2000, and Win98SE for that matter). When used in WCS mode... well, I haven't really found a way to test much of anything about the WCS mode. I think its safer to call it a "future feature teaser" than to assume that there are current uses available based on it.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )

RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by LAURIE

We are in complete agreement on that. J
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:49 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

 


In a message dated 8/14/08 1:47:37 PM, laurie@... writes:



In short when used in the traditional ICM manner (not in the WCS manner),
the Vista color management works the same as OS color management in XP.

Yes, my experience with it is that the WCS control panel, when used in ICC
mode, is a nice looking interface for making the exact same calls one could
make under XP (and Win2000, and Win98SE for that matter). When used in WCS
mode... well, I haven't really found a way to test much of anything about
the WCS mode. I think its safer to call it a "future feature teaser" than to
assume that there are current uses available based on it.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews
on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00
030000000007 )

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by Antonio Bayma Jr

What led me to this conclusion was direct comparison between prints of a given image made by an intent-controllable application (Photoshop and ACDSee) and any other non-color managed application (Word, Internet Explorer, Canon CD-Label Print, and, of course, Photoshop and ACDSee with their color management settings disabled). This is very the same result with Windows XP. Anyway, I suspect both Windows XP and Vista ICM engines (which seem to be the same in essence) have rendering intent control built-in their codes, because some applications (like ACDSee) that don't have their own color management engine, relying on XP/Vista color engine for that purpose, but still have control of what rendering intent to "borrow", are able to change the output rendering (from perceptual to saturation).
Now it comes another question: if Vista color management can't select by itself other than perceptual intent for ICC/ICM printing profiles, what to expect for monitor ones? I'm not sure but suspect they are also treated for perceptual intent. If so, it shouldn't hurt so much, since monitor gamuts are usually larger enough to accomodate most real-world image data.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: LAURIE
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:26 AM
Subject: RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

>Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on >color management panel.

I am not sure what has led you to this conclusion. I opened up the Color Management item in the Vista Control panel and saw that while perceptual was the default rendering other rendering intents were available options.

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by Antonio Bayma Jr

Thanks for your valuable information about outside, inner and measured diameters of the nosecone. Now, I think it might be feasable to put around 80 patches per disc target. As for the Vista color engine rendering limitation, I usually do most serious printing jobs from color-managed applications. But I also try to make full usage of this wonderful product called PrintFix Pro, even for webpage or document printing. For the latter, I can rely on Vista/XP color engine only.
Show quoted textHide quoted text

I'd like to inform people that I managed to put those 225 patches along 4 CD surface targets, and that I would be glad to share them with anyone who might be interested in (please, contact me privately). Regarding to the 225-patch generated profile, it didn't solve the problem I reported on previous message, so I had to investigate further. I found an inconsistency with the drivers for the Canon IP4300 (at least those brazilian/portuguese ones). Unlike it occurs when I select matte or professional papers on printing configuration panel, the drivers ignore the profile chose as default on the Vista color management panel (necessary to apply a given profile to printing jobs made by non-native color profiling support applications) when the printer is configured to None as Color Correction and media type is "Normal paper" or "Printable disc". Someone may argue that this should be the expected behavior.

I don't believe anyone will argue that its ideal behavior, but unfortunately is expected behavior...

It might be, but the fact is that the drivers behave differently with other kind of selected media types. I had reprinted the targets for normal paper and CD surface using the Manual/ICM option. The result was a totally beautiful printing, with correct blues and an adequate saturation for what it should be expected for normal papers and disc surfaces --

Glad to hear that your disc profiles are doing their job, we don't get a lot of feedback on that feature.

although it seems, by comparison, Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering, despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on color management panel.

If you want intent control, I'd recommend printing your discs out of Photoshop...

One question remains: what's the mininum printed size for a patch to be still correct readable by a well-centered Datacolor spectrophotometer? I would like to construct a 729 patch set of targets for CD profiling, feasable along 6 or a maximum of 7 discs, or to implement the grey target into the same quantity of disc targets.

The outside diameter of the nosecone is about 9mm, the inside diameter of it (the illuminated area) is about 7mm. The measured diameter within the illuminated area is about 5mm. But you really need to have the whole 7mm the same color, or translucency effects can effect the result (thats what the overillumination is for in the first place). Besides, you would have to be omniscent to know how to place the nosecone on a patch any smaller than 9mm. So, in a practical sense, tightly placed 9mm square patches could be read, with care and patience.

Re: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD printing

2008-08-14 by Cdtobie

Please read my previous note about rendering intents NOT applying to  
nonprint profiles.

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Aug 14, 2008, at 4:32 PM, "Antonio Bayma Jr"  
<abaymajr@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> What led me to this conclusion was direct  comparison between prints  
> of a given image made by an intent-controllable application  
> (Photoshop and ACDSee) and any other non-color managed application  
> (Word, Internet Explorer, Canon CD-Label Print, and, of course,  
> Photoshop and ACDSee with their color management settings disabled).  
> This is very the same result with Windows XP. Anyway, I suspect both  
> Windows XP and Vista ICM engines (which seem to be the same in  
> essence) have rendering intent control built-in their codes, because  
> some applications (like ACDSee) that don't have their own color  
> management engine, relying on XP/Vista color engine for that  
> purpose, but still have control of what rendering intent to  
> "borrow", are able to change the output rendering (from perceptual  
> to saturation).
>
> Now it comes another question: if Vista color management can't  
> select by itself other than perceptual intent for ICC/ICM printing  
> profiles, what to expect for monitor ones? I'm not sure but suspect  
> they are also treated for perceptual intent. If so, it shouldn't  
> hurt so much, since monitor gamuts are usually larger enough to  
> accomodate most real-world image data.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LAURIE
> To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:26 AM
> Subject: RE: [colorvision_group] High quality target for CD/DVD  
> printing
>
> >Windows Vista color management only considers perceptual rendering,  
> despite of all kind of settings combinations I have tried on >color  
> management panel.
>
>
>
> I am not sure what has led you to this conclusion.  I opened up the  
> Color Management item in the Vista Control panel and saw that while  
> perceptual was the default rendering other rendering intents were  
> available options.
>
>
>
>

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