Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Had a chance to briefly try out the SpyderCheckr to create some HSL raw processing presets for use with my camera (1Ds3)

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/photography/spydercheckr.html

Certainly seems to work OK with awkward lighting, such as energy saving (CFL) light bulbs, which are never something I welcome the sight of if I'm going to shoot an interior (hotels love them)

Hope it's of interest?

>>Hope it's of interest?

Certainly! Thanks, Keith...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging and Home Theater
Datacolor inc. 
cdtobie@...
www.datacolor.com

On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:06 AM, "keith" <yg_1@...> wrote:

> Hope it's of interest?

Hi,

First, Monitor is calibrated (Eye One) and printer/paper/ink is calibrated
(Spyder 3 Print).

I had some family photos that I consolidated into a collage using Photo
Fusion. When I printed the individual photos they were fine; the collage
looked like the people were dead or at least very sick (pale/grey skin). I
printed the Spyder proof of flesh tones. The women in the top left and lower
right were bright orange.

In all cases soft-proof showed normal good photos.

Eventually I realized that the Spyder proof had no tag the individual photos
were tagged Adobe RGB and the collage was tagged sRGB.  Using PhotoShop to
tag the Spyder Proof with Adobe RGB and changing Photo Fusion to "Pass thru"
the individual image tags resulted in good looking prints.

So my question is: What's happening? Why doesn't the sRGB image print
correctly? Did Photo Fusion's conversion to sRGB mess things up? What does
the printer/profile do when the image is untagged as is the case with Spyder
Print images?

Thanks,

Bob Schoner

>>Eventually I realized that the Spyder proof had no tag the individual photos
were tagged Adobe RGB and the collage was tagged sRGB.  Using PhotoShop to
tag the Spyder Proof with Adobe RGB and changing Photo Fusion to "Pass thru"
the individual image tags resulted in good looking prints.

>>So my question is: What's happening? Why doesn't the sRGB image print
correctly? Did Photo Fusion's conversion to sRGB mess things up? What does
the printer/profile do when the image is untagged as is the case with Spyder
Print images?

The individual SpyderProof images are buried for a reason; they are untagged, for internal application use, not for end user use. There is a tagged copy of the whole Matrix in a more public location... tagged AdobeRGB. Apparently your app assumes sRGB for untagged images. The fact that your individual images are AdobeRGB, but the composite is sRGB may mean that it has been incorrectly tagged. Not knowing this particular app, I can't say much about how it handles, or mishandles, color. And there is the possibility of user error as well...

I should warn you that making changes to the internal files which SpyderProof uses (including applying profile tags to them) may cause your copy of SpyderProof to fail to function properly.   

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging and Home Theater
Datacolor inc. 
cdtobie@...
www.datacolor.com

On Nov 13, 2010, at 7:40 PM, "Bob and Carol Schoner" <rschoner@...> wrote:

> Eventually I realized that the Spyder proof had no tag the individual photos
> were tagged Adobe RGB and the collage was tagged sRGB.  Using PhotoShop to
> tag the Spyder Proof with Adobe RGB and changing Photo Fusion to "Pass thru"
> the individual image tags resulted in good looking prints.
> 
> So my question is: What's happening? Why doesn't the sRGB image print
> correctly? Did Photo Fusion's conversion to sRGB mess things up? What does
> the printer/profile do when the image is untagged as is the case with Spyder
> Print images?

Hi, Thanks for getting back. I printed the Spyder Proof image two ways, thru Spyder Print and thru my printing program (QImage); both gave the orange/reddish skin tones. When I printed it thru Spyder Print it brought up the Printer Dialog box (Epson R1800, PC). In the advanced frame I turned on ICM, clicked "Show all profiles" and loaded the Spyder Print profile that I created; it came out reddish. Maybe this was not correct if Spyder Print assigns the profile in some other way. The Spyder Proof image that I tagged Adobe RGB�was "Saved As" in a different folder; it printed correctly�using QImage. By savng it in a different folder I should not have messed up Spyder Print.

My question was more of a theoretical one. How do the printing programs handle an untagged image; do they assume sRGB? And, what happens to the colors when an AdobeRGB tagged image is converted to sRGB?

�;

Bob Schoner

On Nov 13, 2010, at 10:02 PM, Bob & Carol Schoner wrote:

> 
> Hi, Thanks for getting back. I printed the Spyder Proof image two ways, thru Spyder Print and thru my printing program (QImage); both gave the orange/reddish skin tones. When I printed it thru Spyder Print it brought up the Printer Dialog box (Epson R1800, PC). In the advanced frame I turned on ICM, clicked "Show all profiles" and loaded the Spyder Print profile that I created; it came out reddish. Maybe this was not correct if Spyder Print assigns the profile in some other way. The Spyder Proof image that I tagged Adobe RGB was "Saved As" in a different folder; it printed correctly using QImage. By savng it in a different folder I should not have messed up Spyder Print.
> 

That's not the right way to print from the SpyderProof-View screen in Spyder3Print.
S3P itself applies the profile for you; if you apply it "again", then you're getting
double profiling and that's why your print is wrong.

From the SpyderProof-View screen, the only thing you do is click Print, and
then set up the printer driver -exactly- as you did when you printed the target:
color management must be disabled in the printer driver. (Meaning, for you:
Epson Color Controls (not ColorSync), and "Off (No Color Management)" in
Printer Settings.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

>>The Spyder Proof image that I tagged Adobe RGB was "Saved As" in a different folder; it printed correctly using QImage. By savng it in a different folder I should not have messed up Spyder Print.
Agreed...
>>My question was more of a theoretical one. How do the printing programs handle an untagged image; do they assume sRGB?
That would be the most likely thing, but it may vary between applications. 
>> And, what happens to the colors when an AdobeRGB tagged image is converted to sRGB?
If it is converted to aRGB, then it should still print much the same, except it may have lost a few very saturated yellow, green, and cyan tones that sRGB can't hold. But if it is assigned sRGB, then it will print incorrectly. 


C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging and Home Theater
Datacolor inc. 
cdtobie@...
www.datacolor.com

On Nov 13, 2010, at 10:02 PM, Bob & Carol Schoner <rschoner@...> wrote:

> The Spyder Proof image that I tagged Adobe RGB was "Saved As" in a different folder; it printed correctly using QImage. By savng it in a different folder I should not have messed up Spyder Print.
> 
> My question was more of a theoretical one. How do the printing programs handle an untagged image; do they assume sRGB? And, what happens to the colors when an AdobeRGB tagged image is converted to sRGB?
>