Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi!

I'm new to color calibration and I've just ordered a PrintFix Pro
Suite, which should be delivered in a few days. After reading reviews
and discussions, I'm wondering about the following:

It seems necessary to disable the ICM profile in the printer driver
and use it in the graphics program instead. But why? Wouldn't it be
more logical and convenient to assign a profile to the printer and not
to all applications using the printer?

When I create a profile for a monitor, I assign it to the monitor.
When I create one for a scanner, I assign it to the scanner. So why
shouldn't I assign a printer profile to the printer?

If the profiles created by PrintFix don't work with the printer
driver, can they be converted somehow?

I want all printing apps to take advantage of the correct profile, not
just Photoshop (or other software supporting profiles). If I assigne
profiles to the input and output devices once, that's much easier and
more convenient compared to assigning it to all applications I use.
Moreover, most apps don't even support custom ICM profiles (e.g.
photocopy programs, etc.)

What is the point of the "ICM profile" option in the properties of
every printer dirver if it can't be used for anything? This doesn't
make sense to me...

Regards,

Martin

Hello Martin,
there are many reasons against using "inside driver color management"
(IDCM that's how I call it, it's not an offical name for it).
1. People who go so far to invest in color management want total
control over this process and don't want to let even the smallest part
of it inside the black box of any printer driver.
2. Most printer drivers do only accept a standard RGB (sRGB) input for
IDCM. That can (yes it will) result in some color losts.
3. For example when using IDCM Canon drivers will automatically select
a profile (one of these canned ones) which matches the Media and
Quality settings you choose in the driver (...no chance to break in
there) and the driver must have a sRGB input then.

Best,
Peter


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "mhovie71" <martin@...> wrote:

>
> Hi!
> 
> I'm new to color calibration and I've just ordered a PrintFix Pro
> Suite, which should be delivered in a few days. After reading reviews
> and discussions, I'm wondering about the following:
> 
> It seems necessary to disable the ICM profile in the printer driver
> and use it in the graphics program instead. But why? Wouldn't it be
> more logical and convenient to assign a profile to the printer and not
> to all applications using the printer?
> 
> When I create a profile for a monitor, I assign it to the monitor.
> When I create one for a scanner, I assign it to the scanner. So why
> shouldn't I assign a printer profile to the printer?
> 
> If the profiles created by PrintFix don't work with the printer
> driver, can they be converted somehow?
> 
> I want all printing apps to take advantage of the correct profile, not
> just Photoshop (or other software supporting profiles). If I assigne
> profiles to the input and output devices once, that's much easier and
> more convenient compared to assigning it to all applications I use.
> Moreover, most apps don't even support custom ICM profiles (e.g.
> photocopy programs, etc.)
> 
> What is the point of the "ICM profile" option in the properties of
> every printer dirver if it can't be used for anything? This doesn't
> make sense to me...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martin
>

Heh,

No the profiles work fine when you let the printer driver use them. 
You want to turn the profiling off when printing the test target. 
That way you get a sampling of what raw RGB numbers produce ... then
the software can make the profile to make them all look good.

You can certainly use the ICM profiles produced in the Printer driver
too!  A lot of people prefer to do the color management in their
favorite graphical editing program (PhotoShop - Let PhotoShop handle
colors) rather than letting the printer software do it.

Does that help?

Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "mhovie71" <martin@...> wrote:

>
> Hi!
> 
> I'm new to color calibration and I've just ordered a PrintFix Pro
> Suite, which should be delivered in a few days. After reading reviews
> and discussions, I'm wondering about the following:
> 
> It seems necessary to disable the ICM profile in the printer driver
> and use it in the graphics program instead. But why? Wouldn't it be
> more logical and convenient to assign a profile to the printer and not
> to all applications using the printer?
> 
> When I create a profile for a monitor, I assign it to the monitor.
> When I create one for a scanner, I assign it to the scanner. So why
> shouldn't I assign a printer profile to the printer?
> 
> If the profiles created by PrintFix don't work with the printer
> driver, can they be converted somehow?
> 
> I want all printing apps to take advantage of the correct profile, not
> just Photoshop (or other software supporting profiles). If I assigne
> profiles to the input and output devices once, that's much easier and
> more convenient compared to assigning it to all applications I use.
> Moreover, most apps don't even support custom ICM profiles (e.g.
> photocopy programs, etc.)
> 
> What is the point of the "ICM profile" option in the properties of
> every printer dirver if it can't be used for anything? This doesn't
> make sense to me...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martin
>

Hi!

I have a Canon Inkjet and a Minolta Color Laser. In both printer
drivers, I can not choose a custom ICM profile, but Windows XP has a
"Color Management" tab in the device options for all printers (and
actually all input or output devices). With this, I can set a custom
profile and this is how it works for monitors. So I thought this was
the obvious way to use the ICM profiles.

It seems as if some people are actually using the profiles this way
and it seems to work! So I guess I will just wait until the PrintFix
Pro Suite arrives and then simply test all possible ways to assign
profiles. A comparison of the print results should bring some light
into this mystery ;-)

Regards,

Martin Hoefler
> 
> At one time drivers allowed the use of third party profiles, but
these days 
> they do not, so you have no choice but to assign custom profiles
elsewhere. If 
> you asked the printer manufacturers why, they would come up with
reasons like 
> it being to confusing to the end user to have to choose among
profiles, or 
> that they could not be responsible for corruption and errors caused
by third 
> party profiles. But one could point out that it also gives the
manufacturers the 
> upper hand in getting users to use their own media and inks, since
those are 
> automatically supported. 
> 
> Either way, this is a choice made by the manufacturers, and
complaints are 
> unlikely to change it, so you'll have to live with it. One related
complaint is 
> that it means that you can't print via profiles from non-color
managed apps, 
> but you really can't do that very effectively anyways, as such apps
don't 
> assign source profiles, and one ends up with a default guess as to
what conversion 
> to perform, since there is no "from" to use with the "to" of the
printer 

> profile. Rendering intent ends up being a default as well.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>