Thanks to all who responded. I have a few comments. First, I am using a Pro model Disklavier which has a much larger range of Midi in Yamahas enhanced "XP mode" than 1-127. In this mode it can do 10-bit accuracy in recording. This translates to 1-1023 possible values. But even in normal Midi mode it should be able to achieve a 1-127 range. I am using this in silent mode so it IS an electronic instrument. I want to be able to play back through an external computer sampler (specifically, the EXS24 mkII under Logic Platinum). I should be able to get a range as good as if not better than ANY electronic keyboard. The keyboard sensors on these devices is far better than any existing electronic keyboard and so I should be able to get what I am looking for. That said, I do notice that the internal sampler of of my Disklavier (when used in Silent mode) can generate far more dynamic range than an external sampler. So the sensors I am certain are giving a much larger range than is transmitted to the computer. So my question is why is this and can I adjust it somehow to work better? For those that might question why I'd want to do this, it's because the internal sampled piano is only 30MB. It's good, but a bit dated. Samples of pianos exist that exceed 2GB in size (e.g., the Bosendofer Imperial Grand). This sounds far superior to the built in samples. I'd like to use this when I'm playing late at night and don't want to bother then neighbors. And by all the documented things I've read, I should be able to do this and have it sound better than an electronic keyboard. Dave On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 07:03 AM, disklavier@yahoogroups.com wrote: > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. > Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/MlLolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > To Post a message to the group, send it to: > disklavier@... > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and > moderator, send it to: > disklavier-owner@... > > To reach our group's web site go to: > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains > some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other > things, The url is: > http://MuncyFamily.com > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much > mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option > instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to > the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email > to: > disklavier-unsubscribe@... > > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > There are 5 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Question about midi out velocity > From: Dave Budde <dbudde@...> > 2. Re: Question about midi out velocity > From: Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@...> > 3. Re: Question about midi out velocity > From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...> > 4. Irish music > From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...> > 5. Re: Question about midi out velocity > From: James Fry <linx@...> > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:01:39 -0800 > From: Dave Budde <dbudde@...> > Subject: Question about midi out velocity > > I am using a DC5-pro interfacing to Logic Platinum on a computer. When > I send Midi data to the computer, I can only get velocity data between > 20 and 80 unless. I can get to 100 if I really bang hard on the > keyboard. And no matter how lightly I touch the keyboard, I can't get > a velocity below 20. Midi should allow values between 0 and 127. > Anyone have any idea how to get a wider velocity range out of this > thing? > > I've tried both XP mode and Enhanced mode and get the same result. I > have also tried changing the volume setting in the Midi Out parameter > at both 50 and 127 and this doesn't seem to have any effect. This I > don't understand at all. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:33:38 -0900 > From: Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@...> > Subject: Re: Question about midi out velocity > > Dave, you have pretty well described what I have found on my DC3 Mark > II: 20 to 100 is pretty much the practical range of velocity while > recording. > > Here's the story on reproduction: > > On the Mark II with the Volume conrol set at zero, you cannot achieve > any greater dynamic range than that resulting from a MIDI velocity > range > of about from 20 to 93. Notes at velocities between 94 and 127 play no > louder than those at 93. > > To hear differences in sound output between, say, velocities 127 and > 93, > you may reduce the volume control to -5. In that case, however, the > note at velocity 127 will produce no greater sound output than the note > at velocity 93 while the DKV volume was set at 0. In other words, > that's the limit. > > Dave Budde wrote: >> I am using a DC5-pro interfacing to Logic Platinum on a computer. >> When >> I send Midi data to the computer, I can only get velocity data between >> 20 and 80 unless. I can get to 100 if I really bang hard on the >> keyboard. And no matter how lightly I touch the keyboard, I can't get >> a velocity below 20. Midi should allow values between 0 and 127. >> Anyone have any idea how to get a wider velocity range out of this >> thing? >> >> I've tried both XP mode and Enhanced mode and get the same result. I >> have also tried changing the volume setting in the Midi Out parameter >> at both 50 and 127 and this doesn't seem to have any effect. This I >> don't understand at all. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> To Post a message to the group, send it to: >> disklavier@... >> >> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and >> moderator, send it to: >> disklavier-owner@... >> >> To reach our group's web site go to: >> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier >> >> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains >> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other >> things, The url is: >> http://MuncyFamily.com >> >> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? >> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much >> mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option >> instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to >> the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email >> to: >> disklavier-unsubscribe@... >> >> Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: >> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: >> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > > -- > Robert Welcyng > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:50:11 -0500 > From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...> > Subject: Re: Question about midi out velocity > > MIDI numbers of 1 to 128 are only valid for electronic generated data. > Remember, a piano is a "mechanical" instrument with friction. No > matter how > many sensors are in the keys and hammers, the actual velocity of the > hammer > hitting a piano string is not as accurately measureable as an > electronic-only measurement of the key velocity. Also, there is > probably a > translation somewhere in the software to accommodate for the fact that > it is > a piano and not an electronic keyboard. I think that is why the default > value of the Pianosoft music you buy for Disklaviers is automatically > set to > 100. I would hope that a fine piano action would NOT generate any > value > over 100! If you really need numbers from 0 to 128, try an electronic > keyboard. > > Carol Beigel > crbrpt@... > > >> From: Dave Budde <dbudde@...> >> Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com >> To: disklavier@... >> Subject: [disklavier] Question about midi out velocity >> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:01:39 -0800 >> >> I am using a DC5-pro interfacing to Logic Platinum on a computer. >> When >> I send Midi data to the computer, I can only get velocity data between >> 20 and 80 unless. I can get to 100 if I really bang hard on the >> keyboard. And no matter how lightly I touch the keyboard, I can't get >> a velocity below 20. Midi should allow values between 0 and 127. >> Anyone have any idea how to get a wider velocity range out of this >> thing? >> >> I've tried both XP mode and Enhanced mode and get the same result. I >> have also tried changing the volume setting in the Midi Out parameter >> at both 50 and 127 and this doesn't seem to have any effect. This I >> don't understand at all. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dave >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:51:37 -0500 > From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...> > Subject: Irish music > > Anyone know of some websites where I can download some Irish piano > music for > my DKV? Or, does Yamaha produce a PianoSoft disk for this? Thanks! > > Carol Beigel > crbrpt@... > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:41:16 +0000 (GMT) > From: James Fry <linx@...> > Subject: Re: Question about midi out velocity > > On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Carol Beigel wrote: >> MIDI numbers of 1 to 128 are only valid for electronic generated data. >> Remember, a piano is a "mechanical" instrument with friction. No >> matter how >> many sensors are in the keys and hammers, the actual velocity of the >> hammer >> hitting a piano string is not as accurately measureable as an >> electronic-only measurement of the key velocity. Also, there is >> probably a >> translation somewhere in the software to accommodate for the fact >> that it is >> a piano and not an electronic keyboard. I think that is why the >> default >> value of the Pianosoft music you buy for Disklaviers is automatically >> set to >> 100. I would hope that a fine piano action would NOT generate any >> value >> over 100! If you really need numbers from 0 to 128, try an electronic >> keyboard. > > I'm not sure that's quite the case - the way the hammer speed is > measured > is basically exactly the same as how a digital keyboard measures the > speed > of the key. > > On the disklaviers there are beams that are broken and unbroken by the > hammers. Since the distance between the beams (on 4 position models) > and > thickness of the hammer / shank is known, it's possible to calculate > the > velocity from the length of time it took the hammer to travel between > the > beams. I believe the extra sensor on each key is used to detect the > release of a note more than anything else, but it is feasable it is > also > used in the velocity calculation. On the models with continuous > position > sensing, things are obviously slightly different. > > On a digital keyboard there are two contacts under each key very > close together and the time it takes for the two circuits to be made is > measured and velocity calculated in the same way as the hammers on a > disklavier. > > I'd have thought the most important thing was to capture the > performance > as accurately as possible. If the instrument currently can't play back > that accurately, so what - the chances are future instruments will be > able > to. > > If Yamaha are limiting the range of velocities output by the > disklavier, > they are reducing the expressiveness of the instrument - the full scale > should be used, and then rescaling of the velocities used if necessary > at > playback time. Midi is regularly criticised for its lack of controller > expressiveness; if the disklavier only handles velocities between 20 > and > 100 (about 60% of what MIDI is capable of) then no wonder a lot of > people > don't like their performances being recorded on it. > > I think playback on the disklavier is a different matter - the only > way to > get more expression here is to use solenoids with faster response and > more > power, which I beleive the Mark III Pro series of grands have. > > Regards, > > James > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
Message
Re: [disklavier] Digest Number 570
2003-03-08 by Dave Budde