Disklavier

----- Original Message -----

From: Carol Beigel

To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:55 PM

Subject: Re: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver

I don't disagree with anything you said! I will admit though, that I never
met anyone who bought used to get "more" features! I think every instrument,
new or used, should be evaluated for its value for the use it is purchased.
I admit that my remarks are slanted to those who consider price formost;
think that a piano delivered in the original shipping crate is better than
one that has been "opened"; or think something that has been used well is
"just as good as new". I am also aware that there are many good deals out
there, both new and used!

My comments are meant to help people think about their expectations before
they buy. I don't think people deserve to be ripped-off even if their
thought processes invite it. American consumer culture often feels that
"used" is as good as new, or they are getting a better deal if they buy
something out of a truck parked in an armory parking lot; a college or
university 'sale' where the pianos have supposedly been maintained, rather
than just walking into a showroom and driving a hard bargain with the
salesperson. Americans don't really like to haggle prices face-to-face, so
they believe the ads and sale tickets.

Buying a used Disklavier is also like buying a used car! I think our
Commodore 64 still works but it's nothing like the new Evo!


Carol Beigel
crbrpt@...





>From: "woof" <woof@blacknose.com>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>;Subject: Re: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver
>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:41:56 -0500
>
>Carol,
>
>You know, your opinions don't seem crusty... but they are a bit
>biased in one direction. Let me toss out a few salient, and almost
>too-obvious points for consideration on the other side... point by
>point to yours...
>
>0 - Buying used isn't always to 'save a little money'. Sometimes one
>buys used to get more features and a better quality for the SAME
>money as one would spend new. That is, to follow your analogy,
>one might spend $15k on a new Ford Probe base vehicle, vs spending
>the same $15k on a used Lincoln or Caddy. In your analogy, one
>concludes your recommendation to buy the Probe.... I'd disagree.
>
>1 - See before you buy..... Absolutely! I know when we went and
>purchased our Steinway, we spent hours playing, feeling the action,
>hearing the sounds.... making sure the highs were as bright as what
>we wanted without loosing the lows..... Cleary, to me at least,
>buying an instrument without playing it, hearing it, seeing it first
>is un-fathomable... When you buy used - you can arrange to see/hear
>etc. Yet when you buy new... I keep coming across those who
>'ordered' their new grand... and '..it will be coming in x months....'
>Absolutely not! A fine used Strad, Steinway - or Yamaha that I can
>hear, touch, feel and play wins out well over a new 'ordered' instrument.
>
>2 - Great idea - and we agree. ALWAYS have your purchase checked
>out by a knowledgeable and experienced set of eyes and hands. I would
>maintain this to be required be it OLD or NEW... used or factory order.
>We agree - no impact on new vs used choice.
>
>3 - Features? Absolutely! Again, note my comment at the top regarding
>why used.... One could find a used Grand vs a new upright.... Not only
>should you know what you are getting - but know what you need / want.
>Again, I'd posit not an impact on the new vs used choice.
>
>4 - Gray market and US targeted instrument: Absolutely! Once again,
>like buying a car in Mexico and bringing it back to the US... not quite!!
>What ever is bought should be purpose built... we agree, but again, not
>a new vs used.... It is just as 'easy' to find a gray market 'new' piano
>that
>bypassed the system. Check those serial and references; new or used!!
>
>5 - Low price isn't always best! -Wow, again we agree! Your example
>of the piano in a its original packing crate is perfect! Oh, that's a
>reason
>not to buy new, un played, un heard, un seen.... Sorry! One for the used
>side!
>
>6 - 1987 Intel 8088... Well, actually, the 8088 was back earlier than
>1987. Today, a new DD floppy can be found for under $100. Yes, the
>DSR1 upgrade has a list price of $1295... but who pays list (I bought
>my DSR1 for $250... (oh yes, it was used... and I still have it running
>a few years later!). Again, I'd urge see #3 above... know thy features!
>Are you looking for an electronic piano that happens to have an
>acoustic capability??? or an Acoustic that has some electronic????
>
>7 - See the top....Your analogy is great.... Buying the Mercedes with
>150,000 miles for an S type Diesel for the same price as a new
>C190?? Me, I'd opt for the S500 Diesel, after I'd seen it.
>
>BUT - I think we agree on this; in either case, new or used, the
>dealer honesty, the dealer service capability and the availability of a
>good top notch technician BEFORE and AFTER the sale makes or
>breaks
>a happy long term marriage.
>
>Just my thoughts - on the other side!
>
>Ed
>The Old Mercedes Guy.....
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...>
>To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:42 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver
>
>
>| I know my opinions may seem a little crusty at times when it comes to
>buying
>| used Disklaviers and/or used pianos in general, but after 23 years of
>| dealing with the tears and unmet expectations of purchasers trying to
>save a
>| little money, I would like to say a few things.
>|
>| 1. If possible, go in person to play and hear the piano before you buy
>it.
>| Not all pianos play and sound alike. Basically, what you hear and see is
>| what you get. If you don't like the tuning or voicing, and these things
>| cannot be adjusted on the spot as you watch to your liking, chances are
>the
>| situation won't be much better in your living room. If you decide to buy
>| the instrument, get the serial number on the purchase agreement.
>|
>| 2. If you are buying the piano from a distant vendor, and cannot evaluate
>it
>| yourself, hire a Registered Piano Technician to check it out first. Not
>all
>| piano technicians are familiar with Disklaviers, so talk about this
>first.
>| You can get a list of Registered Piano Technicians from www.ptg.org or
>call
>| Yamaha at 1-800-854-1569 to recommend someone in your area. Have the
>| technician supply you with the serial number.
>|
>| 3. Make sure you know exactly what features you are getting. You can
>always
>| post to this website and get an answer as to what the various models
>| include. Basically it comes down to how much you want to mess around
>trying
>| to do what you want to do. The oldest and most basic Disklaviers will
>play
>| the piano from floppy disks you buy from Yamaha and will play standard
>MIDI
>| files from an attached computer. Everything else is optional or is
>included
>| in a succesion of upgraded models. Extra features include whether or not
>| the DKV will play standard MIDI files from the floppy disk drive, what
>kinds
>| of floppy disks are useable, incremental pedaling, upgradeable flash rom,
>a
>| tone generator for Ensemble sounds, speakers, headphones, Silent System,
>| Smart Key and Piano Smart, a stereo audio system, and a CD player.
>|
>| 4. Make sure you are buying a piano constructed for the part of the world
>| you will be using it in; i.e. avoid purchasing a Gray Market piano. If
>you
>| live in North America, you don't want a piano designed soley for an Asian
>| climate. Most homes in North America have a forced air heating system so
>| the relative humidity can get as low as 10%rh in the winter. If the piano
>| was contructed from wood with 12% moisture content, instead of a 5%
>;moisture
>| content there is a risk of the piano changing radical dimensions during
>| seasonal changes. This can result in the finish cracking and falling off
>| the cabinet, the soundboard flattening during the dry season, the
>pinblock
>| not holding the tuning pins tight enough to hold a tuning, and the piano
>| action being plagued by intermittent sticking keys. The electronics may
>| also not be UL approved, so no vendor in their right mind will risk a
>| product liability lawsuit to sell you replacement parts.
>|
>| 5. Remember that the lowest price is not always the best value. Buying
>an
>| instrument from a local vendor not only puts your sales taxes to work in
>| your own community, but gives someone else in your locality a vested
>| interest in your satisfaction. It is certainly easier for a vendor to
>sell
>| a piano (sometimes still in its original packing crate) far, far away if
>it
>| fell off the fork lift than to be responsible for its performance
>locally!
>| Moving companies, or their agents, are also a source of "good deals".
>Many
>| times a long-distance moving company will claim to have expertise moving
>| pianos only to send out an inexperienced crew. Pianos are dropped on
>steps
>| all the time and a good polyester touch-up man can hide such damage well.
>|
>| 6. How many of you are still using your IBM 8088 computers - you know,
>the
>| ones with 64k ram? Before CD players were invented? 1987 does not sound
>| like a very long time in the past, but in the world of electronics it is
>| ancient history. Neither pianos, nor the disk drives on Disklaviers,
>will
>| last forever. You should factor in the cost or repairs when buying an
>older
>| model. A new floppy drive will cost at least $300, and the retail price
>of
>| the DSR1 upgrade (tone generator, plays all standard MIDI files on both
>HD
>;| and DD disks, memory) is $1295. The cost of the CD player is $1295 and
>it
>| still does not do PianoSmart. And those are just for starters.
>|
>| 7. Perhaps it is helpful to think of buying a piano/Disklavier in the
>same
>| terms as buying a car. They cost about the same amount of money. Cars
>all
>| have 4 tires, brakes and steering, and an engine, and they don't last
>| forever. But there is an incredible range of options available. Buying
>a
>| used Disklavier can be like buying a Mercedes with 150,000 miles on it.
>| Buyer Beware.
>|
>|
>| Carol Beigel
>| crbrpt@...
>|
>|
>|
>|
>| _________________________________________________________________
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>|
>|
>|
>| To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
>|
>| To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>moderator, send it to:
>| disklavier-owner@...
>|
>| To reach our group's web site go to:
>| http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>|
>| Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains some
>fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>many other things, The url is:
>| http://MuncyFamily.com
>|
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>|
>| Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
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>|
>|
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>|
>|
>


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To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@yahooGroups.com

Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/