Disklavier

Carol,
Your assumption that digital tone modules do not produce harmonics in the
tones they generate is incorrect (I believe this is what you refer to as a
"quiet" WAV file).  Most common (realistic sounding, non FM-based) digital
tone modules are sample based.  They take raw samples, apply some filtering
and manipulation of the data, and re-produce the desired sounds.  The point
is that the raw sample will definately include many of the harmonics you
talk about, and thus the final output.  Even the more advanced acoustic
modelling techniques (non-sample based) will re-create as much of the
harmonic content as possible.

If one could do an FFT analysis of a portion of a WAV file, and just map
notes to the frequencies observed, things would be simple. But, as has been
discussed, the problem is much more complex.

Thanks for the info on tuning.

Terry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] WAV to MIDI


> I agree with you that these programs are still in their infancy - in fact
> I'm surprised they have come this far.  I also liked Akoff's Composer the
> best and will probably throw the $29 at it to at least get one-voice MIDI
> from wave.
>
> I know that harmonics are a problem in this conversion.  What surprises me
> though (and here I will show my abysmal understanding of physics)is that
> harmonics are a problem in digitally generated tones.
>
> I am a piano tuner, so I understand all about the harmonics generated when
> when a string is excited.  In fact, we piano tuners use these harmonics to
> tune.  We listen to the coincidental partials, i.e. the bass section is
> usually tuned as 6:3 octaves, meaning that the 6th partial of the bottom
> note should be beatless with the 3rd partial of the top note. For the
octave
> C3 (the C below middle C (which is C4) to C2, one would listen to the G
> above middle C (which is G4).
>
>   Notes on the piano are named for the octave in which they appear i.e.
the
> first C on the keyboard starting from the left is C1, middle C is C4 and
the
> last note, #88 is C8, therefore the G above middle C is G4, and the 3
notes
> below C1 are Bzero, B-flat zero and the first note on the piano is A0.
>
> The harmonic progression of partials is:
>
> 1.  Fundamental (the note you play)
> 2.  Octave  (the octave above the note you play)
> 3.  Fifth  (the fifth above the octave)
> 4.  Fourth
> 5.  Major 3rd
> 6.  Minor 3rd  (the note two octaves above the one you play)
> 7.  Seventh
>
> Basically, what all this means is that the lower notes, the bass section,
> generate a lot more partials that people can hear than the higher notes.
> The nice thing about owning a Yamaha piano is that they are about the
> cleanest harmonics you can buy!
>
> I think I will try turning down the volume and just stick with trying to
> convert piano audio files to MIDI for the moment!  If anyone can explain
to
> me why a quiet wave file will generate harmonics, let me know.
>
> Carol Beigel
>
>
>
> >From: mick hamer <mick@...>
> >Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> >To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [disklavier] WAV to MIDI
> >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:30:46 +0100
> >
> >There are quite a few wave to midi programs on the web that are designed
> >to tackle polyphonic music--such as a piece recorded on the piano. There
> >some more web address at the bottom of my email. Sadly none of them
> >works that well (and I have tried at least demo versions of all of
> >them). For my money, the best of the bunch is Akoff's Composer 2.0. But
> >I wouldn't buy one without trying a demo version first.
> >
> >Converting wave to midi is a very difficult computational problem. If
> >you play middle C on the piano, you not only get the frequency of middle
> >C, but also several harmonics--a softer C an octave above, a still
> >softer G above that, C two octaves above and a few more minor
> >vibrations. Play a simple three-note chord of C and there will be well
> >over a dozen different frequencies. The main problem for the computer is
> >sorting out softly played notes from these harmonics. The programs have
> >different ways to doing this, but basically if you turn up the
> >sensitivity to capture more right notes you also get a lot of wrong
> >ones. Turn the sensitivity down and you lose a lot of right notes. There
> >are also other problems, such as the difficulty all the programs have in
> >detecting bass notes. If you want to get a feel for some of the problems
> >the Audiotomidi program is one of the better ones, and it is free.
> >
> >The Official alt.music.midi FAQ has list of programs and a rather
> >pessimistic view of the area. A couple of years ago the only wave to
> >midi programs around were monophonic--they could only tackle single
> >notes. Personally I think the programmers have made tremendous progress
> >since then.
> >
> >Anyway that's enough waffle: here's a few websites. Good luck.
> >http://www.intelliscore.net/
> >http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/%7Earaki/amazingmidi/
> >http://www.btinternet.com/~irshatwell/WaveGoodbye/software.html
> >http://andreenk.chat.ru/english/widi.htm
> >http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ri7h-obt/htdocs/soft/e_gama.html
> >http://www.midi.ru/audiotomidi/ (This is freeware)
> >And the Official alt.midi.music. faq are at http://home.sc.rr.com/cosmog
> >ony/ammfaq.html
> >
> >Mick Hamer
> >
> >  Carol Beigel <carolrpt@...> writes
> > >Someone inquired a while back about converting MIDI generated files
from
> > >their Disklavier to wave files so they could put them on CD.  I was
> >cruising
> > >the www.sharewaremusicmachine.com site (click on Notation) and found 3
> > >interesting programs that might interest this list.
> > >
> > >TiMidity++ v2.10.2 is a MIDI to WAVE converter and player that uses
> >Gravis
> > >Ultrasound-compatible patch files to generate digital audio data from
> > >General MIDI files.  This program is freeware.
> > >
> > >AmazingMIDI 1.60 transcribes WAV to MIDI. (REad the text file to make
> >sure
> > >your .wav are sampled correctly)  Let's you save a 30-second MIDI file
> >using
> > >the demo, but the full version only costs $29.
> > >
> > >Akoff Music Composer 2.0 - is music recognition software which performs
> >WAV
> > >to MIDI conversion on polyphonic music.  Full version costs $29.
> > >
> > >None of this software works perfectly without editing, so learning how
to
> > >edit scores would be most useful.  I understand the full version of
> >Cakewalk
> > >ScoreWriter on costs $39 these days, but make sure the soundcard on
your
> > >computer is at least 32-bit. (16-bit soundcards will crash your
computer
> > >using ScoreWriter!)
> > >
> > >Carol Beigel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > >To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> > >
> > >To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> >moderator, send
> > >it to:
> > >disklavier-owner@egroups.com
> > >
> > >To reach our group's web site go to:
> > >http://egroups.com/group/disklavier
> > >
> > >To visit Todd's family web site that contains some fun disklavier
content
> >among
> > >other things, go to:
> > >http://MuncyFamily.com
> > >
> > >THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > >If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
> >mail, go
> > >the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
> >will fix
> > >the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist
> >on
> > >leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > >disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > >disklavier-subscribe@...
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >mick hamer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@egroups.com
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://egroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> To visit Todd's family web site that contains some fun disklavier content
among other things, go to:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you
insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@...
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>