Yahoo Groups archive

Disklavier

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:20 UTC

Thread

Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-06 by sanchezc2264@...

Hi all,

New to this group.

Could somebody tell me why the Func/MIDIi Setup/MIDI Out menu on my Mark III Disklavier doesn't give me the KBD Out option? It only gives me the MIDI Out= Thru Port 2 and ESBL Out options. My understanding is that I need the KBD Out setting in order to use the Disklavier as a controller, and/or to communicate via MIDI to my Mac. MIDI In works fine, but I would like to be able to use the keyboard to enter MIDI date into my music notation software. Am I missing something?

I will very much appreciate any help!

Thanks!

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-07 by Bill Brandom

Can you tell me the model of your control unit? You will find the model # on the front of the control unit, beginning with either DKC..... Or PPC....

Bill
Love God. Love People. Make a difference.


On Aug 6, 2015, at 3:58 PM, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi all,

New to this group.

Could somebody tell me why the Func/MIDIi Setup/MIDI Out menu on my Mark III Disklavier doesn't give me the KBD Out option?  It only gives me the MIDI Out= Thru Port 2  and ESBL Out options.  My understanding is that I need the KBD Out setting in order to use the Disklavier as a controller, and/or to communicate via MIDI to my Mac. MIDI In works fine, but I would like to be able to use the keyboard to enter MIDI date into my music notation software.  Am I missing something?

I will very much appreciate any help!

Thanks!

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-07 by Bill Brandom

The DGB1CD is playback-only Disklavier. There is so sensing system in the piano. It cannot record or generate MIDI data to send out the MIDI Out port. As a result, there is no Keyboard Out function.

Bill
Love God. Love People. Make a difference.


On Aug 6, 2015, at 6:49 PM, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi,

Thank for your response. The unit doesn't have a model # on the front, but I understand it is DGB1CD.

Thanks again,

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-07 by sanchezc2264@...

Thanks, Bill. Wow, I had no idea there is no sensing function on this model. Do you know if there is any way I could upgrade the unit, to allow for MIDI data to be sent out? Thanks again!

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-07 by Bill Brandom

Carlos, Yamaha does not offer a retrofit sensing system for Disklavier Pianos. What exactly are you trying to do that requires "Keyboard Out"?

Bill


On Aug 7, 2015, at 4:15 AM, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks, Bill.  Wow, I had no idea there is no sensing function on this model.  Do you know if there is any way I could upgrade the unit, to allow for MIDI data to be sent out?   Thanks again!

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-07 by sanchezc2264@...

Hi,

I would like to be able to use the Disklavier as a master keyboard, possibly to control other keyboards, as well as to input notes directly into notation software (Finale). Perhaps the latter is possible using the Disklavier's Host port. However, my PowerMac is a relatively recent model, and doesn't have DIN 8-pin or serial inputs (only ethernet, USB and Firewire).

Thanks!

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-09 by James Fry

Hi Carlos,

If your Disklavier is a playback only model as Bill suggested then you will need to retrofit it with MIDI sensing electronics before you can do what you want. Supposedly the QRS PNOscan system is one of the better and simplest to install (it's optical, but as it fits under the keys it is still quite a big job), or you can get the Moog Piano Bar that rests on top of the keys. Neither gives the same quality result as the recording disklaviers as they miss the hammer velocity sensing.

Regards,

James

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 7 August 2015 at 21:09, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi,

I would like to be able to use the Disklavier as a master keyboard, possibly to control other keyboards, as well as to input notes directly into notation software (Finale). Perhaps the latter is possible using the Disklavier's Host port. However, my PowerMac is a relatively recent model, and doesn't have DIN 8-pin or serial inputs (only ethernet, USB and Firewire).

Thanks!



RE: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-09 by Geoff Ward

James and Carlos

 

The QRS PNOScan II, which I have installed in my upright player piano, has velocity sensing.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 10 August 2015 8:57 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

 

  

Hi Carlos,

 

If your Disklavier is a playback only model as Bill suggested then you will need to retrofit it with MIDI sensing electronics before you can do what you want. Supposedly the QRS PNOscan system is one of the better and simplest to install (it's optical, but as it fits under the keys it is still quite a big job), or you can get the Moog Piano Bar that rests on top of the keys. Neither gives the same quality result as the recording disklaviers as they miss the hammer velocity sensing.

 

Regards,

 

James

 

 

On 7 August 2015 at 21:09, sanchezc2264@... <mailto:sanchezc2264@...>  [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



Hi,

I would like to be able to use the Disklavier as a master keyboard, possibly to control other keyboards, as well as to input notes directly into notation software (Finale).  Perhaps the latter is possible using the Disklavier's Host port.  However, my PowerMac is a relatively recent model, and doesn't have DIN 8-pin or serial inputs  (only ethernet, USB and Firewire).

Thanks!

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-10 by James Fry

On 10 August 2015 at 00:54, 'Geoff Ward' gward1211@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

The QRS PNOScan II, which I have installed in my upright player piano, has velocity sensing.

Neither gives the same quality result as the recording disklaviers as they miss the hammer velocity sensing.

Hi Geoff,

Perhaps my phrasing wasn't clear; the Disklavier generates MIDI velocity by combining key depression timings as well as measuring the velocity that the hammers strike the strings (this is what I meant by hammer velocity sensing, as opposed to simple MIDI velocity) - the two combined giving a very good result. The PNOScan is ultimately limited to key movement, unless I've missed something!

Recent disklaviers (III Pro, IV) also include full key movement recording and reproduction, so you get non-sounding key depressions and partial depressions also recorded. I believe the PNOScan is also able to do some of this, but you will be in a far better position to comment on that capability than me!

Regards,

James


Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-25 by sanchezc2264@...

Hi everyone, again. Further to my earlier questions about my Mark III DGB1CD disklavier, I am having a new problem about which I could use some advice. When attempting to play MIDI files off my mac computer (usually using the notation program Finale) through the disklavier, 1) the piano is not playing very soft notes (marked below "p", or a MIDI value below 40) The keys (and solenoids inside) do move a little, but no hammer action takes place. Also, 2) when there are fast, repeated notes, the disklavier only plays the first note on a sequence, not the rest. Could the latter be because the piano only receives "key on" signals?

I hooked up an external keyboard to use as a MIDI master, and the same problem persists: Neitehr very fast, nor very soft notes are played on the disklavier.

Can anyone suggest a solution or workaround for any, or both of these problems? Can I have the disklavier mechanism re-calibrated, or adjusted so it can play soft, fast notes accurately? Could this be a software problem?

Thanks!!

Carlos

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-25 by George F. Litterst

Good evening, everyone.

Carlos, is the MIDI Input Delay (500 ms) on your Disklavier set to ON or OFF? Once I know that, I can provide further explanation.

Regards,
PianoBench
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:56 PM, sanchezc2264@yahoo.com [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, again.  Further to my earlier questions about my Mark III DGB1CD disklavier, I am having a new problem about which I could use some advice.  When attempting to play MIDI files off my mac computer (usually using the notation program Finale) through the disklavier, 1) the piano is not playing very soft notes (marked below "p", or a MIDI value below 40)  The keys (and solenoids inside) do move a little, but no hammer action takes place.  Also, 2) when there are fast, repeated notes, the disklavier only plays the first note on a sequence, not the rest.  Could the latter be because the piano only receives "key on" signals?  
> 
> I hooked up an external keyboard to use as a MIDI master, and the same problem persists:  Neitehr very fast, nor very soft notes are played on the disklavier.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a solution or workaround for any, or both of these problems?  Can I have the disklavier mechanism re-calibrated, or adjusted so it can play soft, fast notes accurately?  Could this be a software problem?
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Carlos
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-25 by Spencer Chase

The delay should delay all events, i don't see why it would mess up repetition. you can use my virtual keyboard program to send repeated notes at various velocities to see exactly what the piano does on each note. this can help you find where the problem is. is it all notes or just some? the virtual keyboard (PC only) is on the download page of my web site. i also have programs that analyze midi files with respect to note gaps etc, so if your piano is performing correctly it can point out midi files that have repetitions that even a properly functioning one will not play.

a keyboard should send note off or note on velocity 0 events when the key is released. there may be some wacko ones that don't? my virtual keyboard definitely does send vel 0 notes to terminate the keypress.

you can also monitor all midi activity with midiox (google it) so you know what is actually going out. it is free as is my virtual keyboard.

if you have severe short note and repetition problems it suggests action problems, lost motion or tightness. is the action sluggish to hand play? if so, you need to fix it as the DKV can not overcome this sort of problem no matter how carefully it is regulated.

http://www.spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 8/25/2015 4:05 PM, 'George F. Litterst' PianoBench@... [disklavier] wrote:

Good evening, everyone.


Carlos, is the MIDI Input Delay (500 ms) on your Disklavier set to ON or OFF? Once I know that, I can provide further explanation.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:56 PM, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi everyone, again. Further to my earlier questions about my Mark III DGB1CD disklavier, I am having a new problem about which I could use some advice. When attempting to play MIDI files off my mac computer (usually using the notation program Finale) through the disklavier, 1) the piano is not playing very soft notes (marked below "p", or a MIDI value below 40) The keys (and solenoids inside) do move a little, but no hammer action takes place. Also, 2) when there are fast, repeated notes, the disklavier only plays the first note on a sequence, not the rest. Could the latter be because the piano only receives "key on" signals?

I hooked up an external keyboard to use as a MIDI master, and the same problem persists: Neitehr very fast, nor very soft notes are played on the disklavier.

Can anyone suggest a solution or workaround for any, or both of these problems? Can I have the disklavier mechanism re-calibrated, or adjusted so it can play soft, fast notes accurately? Could this be a software problem?

Thanks!!

Carlos



-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-26 by George F. Litterst

Good evening, everyone.

Carlos, the comments that Spencer made are true. Nonetheless, in your situation, you should turn the MIDI Input Delay to ON.

There is rarely a reason to turn OFF the MIDI In Delay. Exceptions are using Disklavier-aware software from my company, TimeWarp Technologies, such as Internet MIDI or Home Concert Xtreme.

There are oddities when you send MIDI data to a mechanical piano in real time. For starters, the playback timing becomes mushy. The reason is that loud notes will be heard sooner than soft notes. Why? Because loud notes, of necessity, have a higher key-down velocity than soft notes, which means that they sound sooner.

The next issue is that in the case of rapidly repeated notes, note-off messages may come in quickly and be acted upon before the note-on keystroke has finished. The result is that the pianos stumbles and mumbles.

When the Disklavier’s MIDI Input Delay is set to ON, the Disklavier buffers the incoming MIDI data, looks at the timing and velocities of the various incoming notes, and then determines when to move the keys so that playback is accurate. The result is that you hear the notes exactly 1/2 second late.

I recommend that you set the playback volume of your Mark IV to the neutral setting (100), turn ON the MIDI Input Delay, and try playback from your computer again.

One other thing to note: People who create performance data in a sequencer or notation program without an understanding of the normal range of MIDI velocities found in a Disklavier performance may end up with files that are much too loud or (less likely) much too soft.

To create a good Disklavier performance on a computer, start by setting the controller 7 value (volume) to the Disklavier’s default setting of 100. Don’t put in a value for controller 11 (expression), because that may effectively contradict the controller 7 setting.

Next, avoid letting the loudest playing go beyond note-on velocities of about 105. In fact, you may find that playback is plenty loud with note-on velocities in the range of 80-95.

For casual-style playing, soft playing works in the range of 20-40. If you are going for whisper quiet playing, you can go all the way down to a note-on value of 1, although you’ll probably need a Disklavier PRO in order to appreciate super low-velocity notes.

Lastly, I should point out that calibration of your Disklavier is important. The Disklavier has hidden calibration procedures that are normally run by a piano technician. These routines enable the Disklavier to test its own playback and make adjustments if playback is not accurate.

Something to consider: Record yourself on the piano, playing very quietly and very loudly. Then examine the MIDI data in a sequencer. That will give you a clear sense of the normal Disklavier velocity range. And, you’ll see the typical SysEx, patch, and controller messages that the Disklavier puts at the beginning of each recording.

Regards,
PianoBench
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:09 PM, sanchezc2264@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, George.  The MIDI Input Delay is set to OFF.  Thanks!
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Disklavier Mark III MIDI trouble

2015-08-26 by sanchezc2264@...

Hi, everyone. Thank you very much for the extensive suggestions and comments. I'll try the various options so far recommended (and am, of course, open to new ones!). However, a lot of what has been suggested will probably go beyond what my knowledge of MIDI, disklaviers, etc will allow me to comprehend and/or implement. I probably should get a disklavier expert come and look at my setup. However, I live in Rochester NY and, in spite of having the great Eastman School of Music right in my neighborhood, there seems to be a shortage of Yamaha-certified disklavier technicians in the area. Does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks again!

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.