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DKC-850 Midi input treatment

DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-16 by rightnightboy@...

Hi, everyone !
I have a question for the wizards...:
I have found that there is a big difference in the rendering of a midi file by my DKC-850 whether the file sits internally in its memory and is played directly from there or whether the same file is played from a software on y computer.
The difference is that when the file initiate form within the DKC it plays perfectly without missing a note (and there are a lot of them) even at a lower level aka -6... And on the contrary when it comes from the computer it misses all kind of events it seems...so WHY ? and is there an explanation and a workaround ?

I have attached here 3 files:
-Internal Mem.mov(a clip of the first bars of the Tarantella played from the DKC)
-Imac Output.mov (the same clip but played from the computer)
-004_Liszt_Tarantella (the midi file used in both exemple and played by Robert Finlay)

- My computer :iMac 10.11.3 32gb ram
-Software tested with: Qmidi, Sweet midi Player, Cubase (all at full volume level)
-I use a usb cable to connect my iMac to the "usb midi in " of the DKC

-I have tried the same experiment with the direct "midi in " of the DKV with the same results...

So it seems that to get a complex piano music to sound just right I have to store them in the dlv or on a stick plugged in the dlv... It doesn't make sense as you can see and hear in the clips. Also I had notice that when plugged into disklavier radio mode , never a note or s beat seems to be missing even at low levels...

Thanks in advance
Alain

Attachments

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment [3 Attachments]

2016-03-16 by George Frederick Litterst

Good afternoon, everyone.

Alain, is MIDI In : Delay In on your DKC-850 set to On or Off? I suspect that it is on.

Regards,
PianoBench
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Mar 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> [Attachment(s) <x-msg://20/#TopText> from rightnightboy@... <mailto:rightnightboy@...> [disklavier] included below]
> Hi, everyone !
> 
> I have a question for the wizards...:
> I have found that there is a big difference in the rendering of a midi file by my DKC-850 whether the file sits internally in its memory and is played directly from there or whether the same file is played from a software on y computer. 
> The difference is that when the file initiate form within the DKC it plays perfectly without missing a note (and there are a lot of them) even at a lower level aka -6... And on the contrary when it comes from the computer it misses all kind of events it seems...so WHY ? and is there an explanation and a workaround ?
> 
> I have attached here 3 files:
> -Internal Mem.mov(a clip of the first bars of the Tarantella played from the DKC)
> -Imac Output.mov (the same clip but played from the computer)
> -00 4_Liszt_Tarantella (the midi file used in both exemple and played by Robert Finlay)
> 
> - My computer :iMac 10.11.3  32gb ram 
> -Software tested with: Qmidi, Sweet midi Player, Cubase (all at full volume level)
> -I use a usb cable to connect my iMac to the "usb midi in " of the DKC
> 
> -I have tried the same experiment with the direct "midi in " of the DKV with the same results...
> 
> So it seems that to get a complex piano music to sound just right I have to store them in the dlv or on a stick plugged in the dlv... It doesn't make sense as you can see and hear in the clips. Also I had notice that when plugged into disklavier radio mode , never a note or s beat seems to be missin g even at low levels...
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Alain
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment [3 Attachments]

2016-03-16 by rightnightboy@...

Hi George
Well no, MIDI IN Delay is set to off..

Im wondering if its my setup or a bug ... I don't have handy, a separate way of "steaming"  the midi file from another computer or from a sequencer in a synth for example .. that way I could hear if it gives the same results as the DKC decodes it and sends its commands to the piano ...
Could there be extra operations that the DKC has to do before sending the playing commands ... Operations that would not be necessary if the file is not "received" but played from its own belly ? ( also that's the way the radio option works isn't , first the DKC is buffering and only after it plays ... Or not ?

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-16 by George Frederick Litterst

Hi, again.

Set MIDI In Delay to On and see if the problem goes away. If it does, I’ll explain.

Regards,
PianoBench

On Mar 16, 2016, at 5:25 PM, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi George
Well no, MIDI IN Delay is set to off..

Im wondering if its my setup or a bug ... I don't have handy, a separate way of "steaming" the midi file from another computer or from a sequencer in a synth for example .. that way I could hear if it gives the same results as the DKC decodes it and sends its commands to the piano ...
Could there be extra operations that the DKC has to do before sending the playing commands ... Operations that would not be necessary if the file is not "received" but played from its own belly ? ( also that's the way the radio option works isn't , first the DKC is buffering and only after it plays ... Or not ?


Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-17 by Bill Brandom

I agree with George. Check your delay in setting. Make sure it is on. 

Bill
Love God. Love People. Make a difference.


On Mar 17, 2016, at 12:21 AM, George Frederick Litterst PianoBench@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Good afternoon, everyone.


Alain, is MIDI In : Delay In on your DKC-850 set to On or Off? I suspect that it is on.

Regards,
PianoBench
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Mar 16, 2016, at 12:15 PM, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> [Attachment(s) from rightnightboy@... [disklavier] included below]
> Hi, everyone !
> 
> I have a question for the wizards...:
> I have found that there is a big difference in the rendering of a midi file by my DKC-850 whether the file sits internally in its memory and is played directly from there or whether the same file is played from a software on y computer. 
> The difference is that when the file initiate form within the DKC it plays perfectly without missing a note (and there are a lot of them) even at a lower level aka -6... And on the contrary when it comes from the computer it misses all kind of events it seems...so WHY ? and is there an explanation and a workaround ?
> 
> I have attached here 3 files:
> -Internal Mem.mov(a clip of the first bars of the Tarantella played from the DKC)
> -Imac Output.mov (the same clip but played from the computer)
> -00 4_Liszt_Tarantella (the midi file used in both exemple and played by Robert Finlay)
> 
> - My computer :iMac 10.11.3  32gb ram 
> -Software tested with: Qmidi, Sweet midi Player, Cubase (all at full volume level)
> -I use a usb cable to connect my iMac to the "usb midi in " of the DKC
> 
> -I have tried the same experiment with the direct "midi in " of the DKV with the same results...
> 
> So it seems that to get a complex piano music to sound just right I have to store them in the dlv or on a stick plugged in the dlv... It doesn't make sense as you can see and hear in the clips. Also I had notice that when plugged into disklavier radio mode , never a note or s beat seems to be missin g even at low levels...
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Alain

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-17 by Bill Brandom

Set MIDI IN delay to ON. This creates a 1/2 second buffer and allows the piano to play much more accurately. MIDI IN DELAY ON is your friend.

Why do you have it set to OFF?

Bill
Love God. Love People. Make a difference.


On Mar 17, 2016, at 2:55 AM, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi George
Well no, MIDI IN Delay is set to off..

Im wondering if its my setup or a bug ... I don't have handy, a separate way of "steaming" the midi file from another computer or from a sequencer in a synth for example .. that way I could hear if it gives the same results as the DKC decodes it and sends its commands to the piano ...
Could there be extra operations that the DKC has to do before sending the playing commands ... Operations that would not be necessary if the file is not "received" but played from its own belly ? ( also that's the way the radio option works isn't , first the DKC is buffering and only after it plays ... Or not ?

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-17 by rightnightboy@...

YES !!! It was that: MIDI DELAY must be ON... Thanks for this precious hint : - )

I was not aware of the real meaning/ use of this "delay" function...and if the buffer gives the DKC "time" to swallow, interpret and send its commands to the piano what then about using delay to adjust the piano playback to midi instruments tracks being played by the computer and being out of sync ? (I think thats why I had Delay set to OFF)
... Or is that problem better solved in the computer itself, finding a way to play those tracks a bit later compared to the piano one being send to the DKC...?

(ps: I m really grateful for the solution since I play a lot of piano midi files and I have been concerned for a long time about the fact that for many of them the DKC volume, not to miss playing any notes being send, had to be set at volume 0, otherwise not everything would be heard, or played...
Now I can relax and enjoy ... How come I didn't get this before LOL !

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-17 by Jorge Fernández Moreno

Try to play THRU, MIDI OUT from piano and connect it to  MIDI IN the computer and set up the SW synths to play from midi, not the sequencer. 

The piano the handles the needed delay. 

Saludos.
Enviado desde mi iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> El 17/03/2016, a las 4:36, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> escribió:
> 
> YES !!! It was that: MIDI DELAY must be ON... Thanks for this precious hint  : - )
> 
> 
> I was not aware of the real meaning/ use of this "delay" function...and if the buffer gives the DKC "time" to swallow, interpret and send its commands to the piano what then about using delay to adjust the piano playback to  midi instruments tracks being played by the computer and being out of sync ? (I think thats why I had Delay set to OFF) 
> ... Or is that problem better solved in the computer itself, finding a way to play those tracks a bit later compared to the piano one being send to the DKC...?
> 
> (ps: I m really grateful for the solution since I play a lot of piano midi files and I have been concerned for a long time about the fact that for many of them the DKC volume,  not to miss playing any notes being send, had to be set at volume 0, otherwise not everything would be heard, or played...
> Now I can relax and enjoy ... How come I didn't get this before LOL !
>

Re: [disklavier] DKC-850 Midi input treatment

2016-03-17 by Bill Brandom

Ok. Now you understand.

If you are playing multi track MIDI data, either feed it all through the Disklavier MIDI IN and come out MIDI OUT to your tone modules/synths (because MIDI OUT is also delayed) or delay the Disklavier track by 500ms or prelay (is this really a word?) the non Disklavier tracks by 500ms.

Bill
Love God. Love People. Make a difference.


On Mar 17, 2016, at 4:06 PM, rightnightboy@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

YES !!! It was that: MIDI DELAY must be ON... Thanks for this precious hint  : - )


I was not aware of the real meaning/ use of this "delay" function...and if the buffer gives the DKC "time" to swallow, interpret and send its commands to the piano what then about using delay to adjust the piano playback to  midi instruments tracks being played by the computer and being out of sync ? (I think thats why I had Delay set to OFF) 
... Or is that problem better solved in the computer itself, finding a way to play those tracks a bit later compared to the piano one being send to the DKC...?

(ps: I m really grateful for the solution since I play a lot of piano midi files and I have been concerned for a long time about the fact that for many of them the DKC volume,  not to miss playing any notes being send, had to be set at volume 0, otherwise not everything would be heard, or played...
Now I can relax and enjoy ... How come I didn't get this before LOL !

Disklavier-savvy tuner/tech in Charlotte area

2016-03-17 by Ronald Natalie

They came and took my piano away this morning.   I’m starting my migration from Northern Virginia to the Lake Norman area.   Anybody have a line on a Disklavier-savvy tuner in the area?

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.