Disklavier

Hi Everyone,

Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
piano player as well.  I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
some community television and as a computer technician.

Floppy drives and disks have been around
from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.


(See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)


Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.

Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.


(See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing


Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
floppy disk.

Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:


http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131


Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
faster over time.


In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
Connector and Data Protocols were universal.


Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633


Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634


It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
$9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.

If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
proprietary means they can.

I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
floppy drives.  So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
members here.

There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.

Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Sincerely,

DNA

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Dashby,

 

Many thanks for your post.  I still use floppies and your information is helpful.  One day, I intend to make the switch to HD (DKC 850) soon. So far, mine continues to chug along without a hiccup (16 years and counting). Knock on wood.

 

Rich

From: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of "dashby dashby@... [disklavier]" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 19, 2016 at 5:52 PM
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [disklavier] Failing Floppy Drives and Floppy Disks (Sorry had an email formatting problem.)

 

  

Hi Everyone,

Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
piano player as well. I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
some community television and as a computer technician.

Floppy drives and disks have been around
from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.

(See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)

Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.

Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.

(See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
floppy disk.

Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:

http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131

Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
faster over time.

In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
Connector and Data Protocols were universal.

Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633

Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634

It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
$9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.

If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
proprietary means they can.

I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
floppy drives. So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
members here.

There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.

Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Sincerely,

DNA

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Two years ago I obtained a 1998 MkII that had hardly been used, but the floppy drive did not function. As I said before, Yamaha wanted $315 for their proprietary drive, and I would have to install it myself or pay another $300 for a DKV technician to do it.

The whole situation made me so angry that I took a floppy and SLAMMED it into the drive with full force. To my surprise, that fixed it. :-)

I now use a desktop computer next to the piano to record, store, save and play thousands of MIDI files. I have a $10 USB floppy to convert all Yamaha disks to MIDI files. Everything works perfectly. I recommend dedicating a cheap laptop for this function instead of an expensive DK-850 unit. I don't, however, use DKV Radio or TV, it would not work with my piano anyway.

Sam Kanter
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 7:52 PM, dashby dashby@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
> piano player as well. I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
> some community television and as a computer technician.
> 
> Floppy drives and disks have been around
> from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.
> 
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)
> 
> Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
> with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
> actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.
> 
> Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
> audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
> 3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
> dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
> in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
> the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
> by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.
> 
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing
> 
> Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
> cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
> VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
> working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
> hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
> mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
> floppy disk.
> 
> Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131
> 
> Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
> meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
> faster over time.
> 
> In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
> a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
> Connector and Data Protocols were universal.
> 
> Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633
> 
> Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
> Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634
> 
> It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
> into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
> floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
> $9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
> read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
> via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.
> 
> If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
> they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
> proprietary means they can.
> 
> I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
> floppy drives. So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
> is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
> Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
> other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
> members here.
> 
> There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.
> 
> Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
> Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> DNA
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
>

Thanks for your comments.

I felt I could help by presenting a maintenance over view.

But if Yamaha's floppy is proprietary then the customer is stuck.

Sometimes you just need different adapter connectors on the cable ends.

Does anyone know if Yamaha's floppy drive is standard or proprietary?

It it is proprietary is there a standard floppy drive work around?

Good luck with your floppy drive, I have 14 working and networked computers

and one of my oldest computers has a working floppy drive which is 12 
years old.

It was a mainstay when I bought it but I haven't used a floppy disk in a 
very long time.


Yes Knock On Wood!

DNA



On 12/19/2016 9:18 PM, Richard Freeman rfreeman26@... 
[disklavier] wrote:
>
> Dashby,
>
> Many thanks for your post.  I still use floppies and your information 
> is helpful.  One day, I intend to make the switch to HD (DKC 850) 
> soon. So far, mine continues to chug along without a hiccup (16 years 
> and counting). Knock on wood.
>
> Rich
>
> *From: *<disklavier@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of "dashby 
> dashby@... [disklavier]" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> *Reply-To: *<disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> *Date: *Monday, December 19, 2016 at 5:52 PM
> *To: *<disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject: *[disklavier] Failing Floppy Drives and Floppy Disks (Sorry 
> had an email formatting problem.)
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
> piano player as well. I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
> some community television and as a computer technician.
>
> Floppy drives and disks have been around
> from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.
>
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)
>
> Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
> with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
> actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.
>
> Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
> audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
> 3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
> dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
> in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
> the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
> by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.
>
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing
>
> Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
> cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
> VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
> working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
> hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
> mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
> floppy disk.
>
> Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131
>
> Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
> meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
> faster over time.
>
> In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
> a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
> Connector and Data Protocols were universal.
>
> Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633
>
> Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
> Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634
>
> It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
> into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
> floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
> $9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
> read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
> via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.
>
> If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
> they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
> proprietary means they can.
>
> I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
> floppy drives. So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
> is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
> Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
> other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
> members here.
>
> There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.
>
> Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
> Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> DNA
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

That was a great save for you!


Slamming the floppy into the drive at least in your case,

freed up a floppy drive mechanism that was sticking or

you were able to dislodge some dirt that had over time,

accumulated on the write/read head(s) of the floppy

drive preventing the head(s) from reading the revolving

magnetic disk and it's data.


But sometimes, if you slam the floppy

disk in, I too have become frustrated, :-)

it finishes off the drive and it no longer

responds and the battle is over.


I am happy that this was not your story!

DNA



On 12/19/2016 9:53 PM, Skanter123 skanter123@... [disklavier] wrote:
> Two years ago I obtained a 1998 MkII that had hardly been used, but 
> the floppy drive did not function. As I said before, Yamaha wanted 
> $315 for their proprietary drive, and I would have to install it 
> myself or pay another $300 for a DKV technician to do it.
>
> The whole situation made me so angry that I took a floppy and SLAMMED 
> it into the drive with full force. To my surprise, that fixed it. :-)
>
> I now use a desktop computer next to the piano to record, store, save 
> and play thousands of MIDI files. I have a $10 USB floppy to convert 
> all Yamaha disks to MIDI files. Everything works perfectly. I 
> recommend dedicating a cheap laptop for this function instead of an 
> expensive DK-850 unit. I don't, however, use DKV Radio or TV, it would 
> not work with my piano anyway.
>
> Sam Kanter
> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com>
> (212) 684-3304
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 19, 2016, at 7:52 PM, dashby dashby@... 
> <mailto:dashby@...> [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
>> piano player as well. I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
>> some community television and as a computer technician.
>>
>> Floppy drives and disks have been around
>> from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.
>>
>> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)
>>
>> Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
>> with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
>> actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.
>>
>> Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
>> audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
>> 3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
>> dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
>> in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
>> the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
>> by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.
>>
>> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing
>>
>> Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
>> cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
>> VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
>> working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
>> hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
>> mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
>> floppy disk.
>>
>> Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131
>>
>> Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
>> meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
>> faster over time.
>>
>> In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
>> a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
>> Connector and Data Protocols were universal.
>>
>> Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633
>>
>> Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
>> Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634
>>
>> It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
>> into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
>> floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
>> $9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
>> read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
>> via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.
>>
>> If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
>> they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
>> proprietary means they can.
>>
>> I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
>> floppy drives. So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
>> is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
>> Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
>> other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
>> members here.
>>
>> There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.
>>
>> Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
>> Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)
>>
>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> DNA
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
> 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

A point of clarity:


I should mention that the floppy drive heads are not in

actual physical contact with the revolving magnetic disk.


That situation is what damages floppy drives and floppy disks.


Like spinning hard drives, the floppy drive

head(s) float on a very thin, tiny blanket of air.


But the floppy drive mechanism and floppy disks are far

more delicate and subject to the "mechanisms lube drying

out" and "dust" issues as they are not in a vacuum or an air

sealed environment as with hard drives and therefore more

easily damaged especially when the floppy drive head(s) bangs

against the floppy disk from rough handling, mechanism

failures, etc. especially when writing or reading data or

inserting or removing the floppy disk at the wrong moment.


Consider mobile laptops of that period with built in floppy disk drives.

There were lots of damaged floppy drives and floppy disks going on.


Or homes that are very dusty and maintain very dry or wet humidity.

Wet humidity can cause the floppy drive head(s) to more easily breach

the thin, tiny air blanket and stick and damage the head(s) and the

floppy disk more easily.


I have observed that wide swings in temperature, humidity, barometric

pressure can be the precursor to floppy drive and floppy disk failure

because the floppy drive is always exposed to potentially unfriendly

room conditions and may need lube and floppy drive head cleaning

more often.


Too much head cleaning physically wears out the head(s) because the

cleaner works by actually being in physical contact with the floppy drive

head(s) as it lightly attempts to rub off the dust or floppy disk gunk that

accumulates just from use over time.


So it's 6 of one and half a dozen of another.


But if your floppy drive stops working,

floppy disk cleaners are certainly worth a try.



On 12/19/2016 7:52 PM, dashby wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
> piano player as well.  I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
> some community television and as a computer technician.
>
> Floppy drives and disks have been around
> from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.
>
>
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)
>
>
> Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
> with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
> actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.
>
> Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
> audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
> 3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
> dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
> in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
> the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
> by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.
>
>
> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing
>
>
> Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
> cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
> VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
> working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
> hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
> mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
> floppy disk.
>
> Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:
>
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131
>
>
> Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
> meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
> faster over time.
>
>
> In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
> a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
> Connector and Data Protocols were universal.
>
>
> Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.
>
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633 
>
>
>
> Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
> Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.
>
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634 
>
>
>
> It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
> into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
> floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
> $9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
> read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
> via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.
>
> If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
> they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
> proprietary means they can.
>
> I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
> floppy drives.  So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
> is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
> Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
> other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
> members here.
>
> There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.
>
> Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
> Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> DNA


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

> That was a great save for you!
> 


Yes, quite fortunate; though I've found that a good, hard slap or pound with fist has fixed many a dysfunctional device. Often, something is just stuck. 

Full disclosure, I had tried floppy drive cleaner and just about everything else first. In any case, floppies are outmoded and unreliable, anyone with one in their DKV should either bypass it with MIDI or upgrade to a better storage device.

Sam Kanter
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 10:12 PM, dashby dashby@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a great save for you!
> 
> 
> Slamming the floppy into the drive at least in your case, 
> 
> freed up a floppy drive mechanism that was sticking or 
> 
> you were able to dislodge some dirt that had over time, 
> 
> accumulated on the write/read head(s) of the floppy 
> 
> drive preventing the head(s) from reading the revolving 
> 
> magnetic disk and it's data.
> 
> 
> But sometimes, if you slam the floppy 
> 
> disk in, I too have become frustrated,  :-)
> 
> it finishes off the drive and it no longer 
> 
> responds and the battle is over.
> 
> 
> I am happy that this was not your story!
> 
> DNA
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/19/2016 9:53 PM, Skanter123 skanter123@... [disklavier] wrote:
>>  
>> Two years ago I obtained a 1998 MkII that had hardly been used, but the floppy drive did not function. As I said before, Yamaha wanted $315 for their proprietary drive, and I would have to install it myself or pay another $300 for a DKV technician to do it.
>> 
>> The whole situation made me so angry that I took a floppy and SLAMMED it into the drive with full force. To my surprise, that fixed it. :-)
>> 
>> I now use a desktop computer next to the piano to record, store, save and play thousands of MIDI files. I have a $10 USB floppy to convert all Yamaha disks to MIDI files. Everything works perfectly. I recommend dedicating a cheap laptop for this function instead of an expensive DK-850 unit. I don't, however, use DKV Radio or TV, it would not work with my piano anyway.
>> 
>> Sam Kanter
>> www.keyboardcollective.com
>> (212) 684-3304
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 7:52 PM, dashby dashby@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Mostly just a lurker here, I like to know about player pianos, I am a
>>> piano player as well. I also have a 35 year career in A/V recording,
>>> some community television and as a computer technician.
>>> 
>>> Floppy drives and disks have been around
>>> from about the mid 1970s into the late 2000s.
>>> 
>>> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk)
>>> 
>>> Along with aging, they have always been problematic because as
>>> with audio tape and video tape, the floppy drive head(s) is/are in
>>> actual physical contact with the magnetic rotating disk.
>>> 
>>> Eventually as with all audio tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, 8 track,
>>> audio cassette and all video tape machines, i.e. reel to reel, Sony
>>> 3/4 inch U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC VHS cassette, the heads get
>>> dirty and clogged with dust and audio or video tape gunk which
>>> in the old days you had to periodically clean off either by bringing
>>> the unit to a repair shop, or taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
>>> by hand with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol and a Degausser.
>>> 
>>> (See Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing
>>> 
>>> Or you could try a self-contained audio reel to reel, 8 track, audio
>>> cassette or video reel to reel, Sony 3/4 U-Matic, Sony Beta or JVC
>>> VHS cleaner. Sometimes you cleaned the units and they would start
>>> working again, sometimes not. As a repair tech, I cleaned by hand,
>>> hundreds of these units. In addition, some floppy drives just plain
>>> mechanically wear out over time and use or got damaged by the
>>> floppy disk.
>>> 
>>> Examples of Floppy Drive self-contained Cleaners:
>>> 
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Floppy-Drive-Diskette/SubCategory/ID-131
>>> 
>>> Fast forward to 2016. The floppy drive and floppy disks were never
>>> meant to last this long and most are only going to fail faster and
>>> faster over time.
>>> 
>>> In the old days you just bought off the shelf from a computer store,
>>> a standard floppy drive because the Data Connector and Power
>>> Connector and Data Protocols were universal.
>>> 
>>> Example of a Standard Internal Floppy Drive: $8.49 plus shipping.
>>> 
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010633
>>> 
>>> Examples of Standard External USB Floppy Drives:
>>> Range from $18.99 to $29.99 plus shipping.
>>> 
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007543%20600010635%20600010634
>>> 
>>> It may be that Yamaha, like many companies, in order to lock you
>>> into their system and pay their higher profits, has a proprietary
>>> floppy drive so you can't go to a computer shop and pay about
>>> $9 to $20 for a new floppy drive, instead of about $300 which I
>>> read someone here mentioned as the cost to buy a floppy drive
>>> via Yamaha Repair Service and you have to install it yourself.
>>> 
>>> If this is the case, their price is not in line with the OLD technology
>>> they are selling you and they are gouging customers because
>>> proprietary means they can.
>>> 
>>> I see over time, more and more people here are complaining about
>>> floppy drives. So it is probably very wise indeed for everyone who
>>> is still relying on the floppy drive built into their Yamaha Player
>>> Pianos to be making plans to migrate as rapidly as possible to
>>> other sustainable solutions as have been mentioned by other
>>> members here.
>>> 
>>> There is no winning with this floppy drive, floppy disk game.
>>> 
>>> Please plan ahead because increased Floppy Drive and
>>> Floppy Disk failures are coming to a theater near you. :-)
>>> 
>>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> DNA
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
>   			 			
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 				
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
>