Disklavier

I have seen several posts on this topic including what velocity 
should be set to but let me ask this.  

I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha 
Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud.  The part I don't 
understand is, if I bang on the keyboard as hard as I can, I can 
never get the volume I am hearing out of the disks.  Don't get me 
wrong.  I don't want it to be loud.  I'm really concerned about the 
disks ruining my machine, really.  I guesds I really have two 
questions: 

1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a 
human is capable of playing it?

2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  It 
doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's 
pianos but considering the first question....

BTY It's ten years old and seems to be in wonderful condition!  

Thanks

I've experimented in the past (on my DC3 Mark II) to determine the DKV volume
setting that reproduces the same sound level as that of the original recorded
note.  (I recorded, with microphones and DAT, the original and the reproduced
single notes and compared their sound levels using Sound Forge.)  The results
were somewhat note velocity-dependent, but, overall, a DKV Volume setting of 0
most accurately reproduced the notes in the velocity range of 30 to 90.

I've never measured the characteristics of an MX100A, but I suspect you may have
a calibration issue.  The approach I would take would be to hire an RPT who got
an "A" in Yamaha's Little Red School House and have that star check your
regulation and then run through the DKV maintenance tests and calibrations.

>1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a
> human is capable of playing it?

+++ The sound power is related to the achieved hammer velocity whether that
velocity is acquired by solenoid or a fist.

> 2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  It
> doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's
> pianos but considering the first question....

+++ Probably not.  Solenoid currents are limited to a max value.  It would
understandably ruin your nerves, however.

Bob

fakepopster wrote:
> 
> I have seen several posts on this topic including what velocity
> should be set to but let me ask this.
> 
> I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha
> Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud.  The part I don't
> understand is, if I bang on the keyboard as hard as I can, I can
> never get the volume I am hearing out of the disks.  Don't get me
> wrong.  I don't want it to be loud.  I'm really concerned about the
> disks ruining my machine, really.  I guesds I really have two
> questions:
> 
> 1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a
> human is capable of playing it?
> 
> 2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  It
> doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's
> pianos but considering the first question....
> 
> BTY It's ten years old and seems to be in wonderful condition!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely rewritten in June 2001 and contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Greetings DKV fans:

Ahhh!  My favorite subject.  Loudness/Velocity.  I have an older 92 
model wagon grand, and one of my original problems was that it played 
too loud.  This was especially true when I drove it from MIDI files 
on my computer via the MIDI in interface.  My most satisfactory 
solution to date has been to remap the velocities with Velocet, 
available from Muncy's goodie box.  For Pianosoft diskettes, I guess 
that it would be necessary to make a PC readable copy with the DOS 
utility and then then apply Veloset.

Maybe one of the Yamaha techs can provide more light on the human vs. 
solenoid question, but since the solenoids are by necessity striking 
the keys differently than a human player, differences in response are 
to be expected.  I suspect that they have improved things since our 
models, but with appropriate massaging of the files I have been able 
to obtain satisfactory performance.  I also tend to believe that 
allowing the player mechanism to pound the piano can't be the best 
thing for it.  As Bob Welcyng suggested, perhaps the piano needs 
calibration.  If you are in the East, I recommend Tom Kaplan (if he 
still services DKVs).  He was the one who finally exorcised all of 
the demons in my piano :-)

One last comment:  I don't know about MX100As, but my older model 
does NOT respond to the overall velocity parameter in MIDI files 
(controller 7, I believe).  I usually set that to 0 to avoid having 
the piano part play on the synthesizer when I play multi-instrument 
pieces. 

Bob Davis



--- In disklavier@y..., "fakepopster" <raydene@n...> wrote:
> I have seen several posts on this topic including what velocity 
> should be set to but let me ask this.  
> 
> I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha 
> Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud.  The part I don't 
> understand is, if I bang on the keyboard as hard as I can, I can 
> never get the volume I am hearing out of the disks.  Don't get me 
> wrong.  I don't want it to be loud.  I'm really concerned about the 
> disks ruining my machine, really.  I guesds I really have two 
> questions: 
> 
> 1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a 
> human is capable of playing it?
> 
> 2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  
It 

> doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's 
> pianos but considering the first question....
> 
> BTY It's ten years old and seems to be in wonderful condition!  
> 
> Thanks

Yes, you can ruin an upright piano action by the solenoids playing the piano 
too loudly.  That is the problem playing  MIDI files created with an 
electronic keyboard.  The velocity on any MIDI file to play your piano keys 
should never be more than 100.  Bob is right about setting it to between 30 
and 90.

Does the piano play softly when you turn the volume all the way down?

Carol Beigel


>From: "fakepopster" <raydene@...>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [disklavier] Volume/Velocity
>Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:26:38 -0000
>
>I have seen several posts on this topic including what velocity
>should be set to but let me ask this.
>
>I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha
>Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud.  The part I don't
>understand is, if I bang on the keyboard as hard as I can, I can
>never get the volume I am hearing out of the disks.  Don't get me
>wrong.  I don't want it to be loud.  I'm really concerned about the
>disks ruining my machine, really.  I guesds I really have two
>questions:
>
>1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a
>human is capable of playing it?
>
>2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  It
>doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's
>pianos but considering the first question....
>
>BTY It's ten years old and seems to be in wonderful condition!
>
>Thanks
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Good morning, everyone,

In a message dated 2/1/02 6:27:41 PM, raydene@... writes:

<< I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha 
Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud. >>

Any disk that you record yourself should play back at the volume at which it 
was recorded. If it does not, your system needs calibration. You should do 
this test in the presence of your Disklavier technician.

You may find that some of Yamaha's published disks are loud on your piano in 
the room where you keep it. However, if the instrument is properly 
calibrated, the loudness issue is one of personal judgement. Yamaha artists 
typically record as though they were performing for a concert audience, not 
as though they were trying to create soft background music. Usually, using 
the volume control on your piano should suffice with Yamaha-published disks.

As for disks from other sources, particularly Standard MIDI Files found on 
the Internet, they tend to be recorded very loud on lighter action keyboards 
that have a different velocity profile. As many people in this group have 
remarked, they often need editing.

Regards,
PianoBench

Good morning, everyone.

In a message dated 2/2/02 3:21:55 PM, Bob writes:

<< One last comment:  I don't know about MX100As, but my older model 
does NOT respond to the overall velocity parameter in MIDI files 
(controller 7, I believe).  I usually set that to 0 to avoid having 
the piano part play on the synthesizer when I play multi-instrument 
pieces.  >>

The first Disklavier to respond to volume data (controller 7) was the Mark 
IIXG. The wagon grand, MX100II, MX100A or B, and the MX80 series, do not 
respond to this parameter.

The native volume level for the more recent models is controller 7=100. If 
the later model instrument sees controller 7=0 for the piano part, it will 
reinterpret the volume setting to be 100.

Regards,
PianoBench

Thanks for the input.  Yes, the piano does play softly if I turn it 
down, although it may miss a soft note if turned to the lowest 
level.  Perhaps I do have a calibration issue as I still cannot 
understand the Yamaha engineered software playing louder than what I 
perceive to be humanly possible at a 0 loudness setting.  

I live in the Sacramento, Ca. area.  Any recommendations for a tech 
in this area?  Thanks    

--- In disklavier@y..., "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@h...> wrote:
> Yes, you can ruin an upright piano action by the solenoids playing 
the piano 
> too loudly.  That is the problem playing  MIDI files created with 
an 
> electronic keyboard.  The velocity on any MIDI file to play your 
piano keys 
> should never be more than 100.  Bob is right about setting it to 
between 30 
> and 90.
> 
> Does the piano play softly when you turn the volume all the way 
down?
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
> 
> >From: "fakepopster" <raydene@n...>
> >Reply-To: disklavier@y...
> >To: disklavier@y...
> >Subject: [disklavier] Volume/Velocity
> >Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:26:38 -0000
> >
> >I have seen several posts on this topic including what velocity
> >should be set to but let me ask this.
> >
> >I have a MX100A.  When I play a disk (one I create or a Yamaha
> >Pianodisc that came with it) it is very loud.  The part I don't
> >understand is, if I bang on the keyboard as hard as I can, I can
> >never get the volume I am hearing out of the disks.  Don't get me
> >wrong.  I don't want it to be loud.  I'm really concerned about the
> >disks ruining my machine, really.  I guesds I really have two
> >questions:
> >
> >1. How can the piano, physically, play louder with the disks than a
> >human is capable of playing it?
> >
> >2. Is it possible I am harming the machine, playing it this loud?  
It
> >doesn't seem like Yamaha would engineer software that ruins it's
> >pianos but considering the first question....
> >
> >BTY It's ten years old and seems to be in wonderful condition!
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: 
http://mobile.msn.com