Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

2018-05-21 by sam gebala

Just bought a new Disklavier Enspire model DGB1K ENST. Sadly, the keys click very loudly, especially in “Quiet Mode”, when playing recorded built-in songs. The clicking key sounds drown the music coming from the speakers below (in Quiet Mode). Can the solenoids be adjusted to move the keys less forcibly when the piano is playing a song at low volume (especially in Quiet Mode?). We live in a very quiet townhouse,(disabling key movement, using the EN App, in Quiet Mode would defeat the purpose of getting a Disklavier piano.) We got this piano because it moves the keys as if the piano is being played by a human. We are thinking of returning this piano. Thank you is advance for the reply.

Re: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

2018-05-21 by Spencer Chase

this piano might be too new for group members to know the specific details. i would contact the dealer to whom you paid a fortune and ask them to fix the problem. it is really difficult to imagine that Yamaha would overlook such a problem. it might be a simple setting or matter of calibration or regulation.

here are a few thoughts:

pianos are actually quite noisy, in normal playing the sound of the music covers the sound of the action noise.

solenoids are noisy too but it should be possible to make them pretty quiet. on my LX pianos what you hear when the solenoids are driven very softly is a sort of electronic modulation noise which sounds quite unnatural you also hear the action noise as various parts click and release et. this is just a part of electronic piano music.

in quiet mode the hammers are disconnected from the rest of the action and it would seem to make sense the Yamaha would use a minimal key actuation force to make it as quiet as possible. if this is not the case, shame on you Yamaha !

my guess is that Yamaha does make it as quiet as possible and that maybe you just need regulation. if there is lost motion between the solenoids and the keys this will make a loud clicking noise. also there may be a setting options for silent mode or some sort of calibration routine that the dealer did not bother with. in general piano dealers know little about players and are just glad to get them out of the door and not have complaints. a lot of people on this forum have had a lt of trouble finding decent service people who really know what they are doing.

play the piano by hand very softly and determine how noisy the action is on its own and then determine how much noisier it is when played in silent mode. i would be satisfied with just a little more noise, if the difference is considerable i would throw a fit :)

you mentioned the problem when playing built in music. is there less of a problem with externally provided music? it is possible that the keys are being driven as if they were intended to be playing when in fact it is silent mode. this would be stupid but a possibility.

you can download the virtual keyboard program from the download page of my web site. try different velocity setting and you can determine exactly how loud the piano plays at various levels. selecting a very low velocity (i think yamaha still considers velocity 20 to be the minimum) you should just barely play the strings (or not at all in silent mode) and can tell how much noise comes from the action and solenoids. if you get more quiet playing than when in silent mode and playing internal recordings then the silent playing is not playing with minimal force and hopefully this is something that can be adjusted by someone who really knows the internals of the disklavier.

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
21220 92nd Place W., Edmonds, WA 98020
Spencer@spencerserolls.com
Spencer@...
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.poodlex.com
(425) 791-0309
(707) 223-8212

------ Original Message ------

From: "sam gebala samgebala@... [disklavier]" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>;

To: "disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: 5/21/2018 10:59:13 AM

Subject: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

Show quoted textHide quoted text

Just bought a new Disklavier Enspire model DGB1K ENST. Sadly, the keys click very loudly, especially in “Quiet Mode”, when playing recorded built-in songs. The clicking key sounds drown the music coming from the speakers below (in Quiet Mode). Can the solenoids be adjusted to move the keys less forcibly when the piano is playing a song at low volume (especially in Quiet Mode?). We live in a very quiet townhouse,(disabling key movement, using the EN App, in Quiet Mode would defeat the purpose of getting a Disklavier piano.) We got this piano because it moves the keys as if the piano is being played by a human. We are thinking of returning this piano. Thank you is advance for the reply.

Re: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

2018-05-21 by Carol Beigel

Remember first what you bought is a piano.  Usually the more irritating the problem the easier it is to fix.  Call your dealer.  Sounds like a simple adjustment to a rail.

Carol Beigel, RPT

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On May 21, 2018, at 2:42 PM, 'Spencer Chase' lists@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> this piano might be too new for group members to know the specific details. i would contact the dealer to whom you paid a fortune and ask them to fix the problem. it is really difficult to imagine that Yamaha would overlook such a problem. it might be a simple setting or matter of calibration or regulation.
> 
> here are a few thoughts:
> pianos are actually quite noisy, in normal playing the sound of the music covers the sound of the action noise.
> solenoids are noisy too but it should be possible to make them pretty quiet. on my LX pianos what you hear when the solenoids are driven very softly is a sort of electronic modulation noise which sounds quite unnatural you also hear the action noise as various parts click and release et. this is just a part of electronic piano music.
> 
> in quiet mode the hammers are disconnected from the rest of the action and it would seem to make sense the Yamaha would use a minimal key actuation force to make it as quiet as possible. if this is not the case, shame on you Yamaha ! 
> 
> my guess is that Yamaha does make it as quiet as possible and that maybe you just need regulation. if there is lost motion between the solenoids and the keys this will make a loud clicking noise. also there may be a setting options for silent mode or some sort of calibration routine that the dealer did not bother with. in general piano dealers know little about players and are just glad to get them out of the door and not have complaints. a lot of people on this forum have had a lt of trouble finding decent service people who really know what they are doing.
> 
> play the piano by hand very softly and determine how noisy the action is on its own and then determine how much noisier it is when played in silent mode. i would be satisfied with just a little more noise, if the difference is considerable i would throw a fit :)
> 
> you mentioned the problem when playing built in music. is there less of a problem with externally provided music? it is possible that the keys are being driven as if they were intended to be playing when in fact it is silent mode. this would be stupid but a possibility.
> 
> you can download the virtual keyboard program from the download page of my web site. try different velocity setting and you can determine exactly how loud the piano plays at various levels. selecting a very low velocity (i think yamaha still considers velocity 20 to be the minimum) you should just barely play the strings (or not at all in silent mode) and can tell how much noise comes from the action and solenoids. if you get more quiet playing than when in silent mode and playing internal recordings then the silent playing is not playing with minimal force and hopefully this is something that can be adjusted by someone who really knows the internals of the disklavier.
> 
>  
>  
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> 21220 92nd Place W., Edmonds, WA 98020
> Spencer@spencerserolls.com
> Spencer@...
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.poodlex.com
> (425) 791-0309
> (707) 223-8212
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "sam gebala samgebala@... [disklavier]" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> To: "disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 5/21/2018 10:59:13 AM
> Subject: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode
> 
>>  
>> Just bought a new Disklavier Enspire model DGB1K ENST. Sadly, the keys click very loudly, especially in “Quiet Mode”, when playing recorded built-in songs. The clicking key sounds drown the music coming from the speakers below (in Quiet Mode). Can the solenoids be adjusted to move the keys less forcibly when the piano is playing a song at low volume (especially in Quiet Mode?). We live in a very quiet townhouse,(disabling key movement, using the EN App, in Quiet Mode would defeat the purpose of getting a Disklavier piano.) We got this piano because it moves the keys as if the piano is being played by a human. We are thinking of returning this piano. Thank you is advance for the reply.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

2018-05-21 by Mark Fontana

If you plan to use the instrument mostly in quiet mode, with moving keys and electronically-produced sound that you need to turn down very low, like a stereo system, maybe you don't actually need the acoustic piano part of the instrument and should consider exchanging the DGB1K for a Yamaha GranTouch, which is a Disklavier-equipped Yamaha digital piano with moving keys.� They were available in both "grand" and "upright" cases.� They're no longer manufactured but still available on the second-hand market.� The GranTouch does incorporate an actual piano action, so there will inevitably be a little action noise with the moving keys enabled, but the cost savings over purchasing a full acoustic piano would be substantial.

On 05/21/2018 12:59 PM, sam gebala samgebala@... [disklavier] wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

�

Just bought a new Disklavier Enspire model DGB1K ENST. Sadly, the keys click very loudly, especially in \u201cQuiet Mode\u201d, when playing recorded built-in songs. The clicking key sounds drown the music coming from the speakers below (in Quiet Mode). Can the solenoids be adjusted to move the keys less forcibly when the piano is playing a song at low volume (especially in Quiet Mode?). We live in a very quiet townhouse,(disabling key movement, using the EN App, in Quiet Mode would defeat the purpose of getting a Disklavier piano.) We got this piano because it moves the keys as if the piano is being played by a human. We are thinking of returning this piano. Thank you is advance for the reply.

Re: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

2018-05-21 by sam gebala

Thank you for the replies. We hope that it is just an adjustment of the rail, the Yamaha dealer Tech is coming Wednesday. It is true that we bought an acoustic piano that has mechanical keys and hammers (sounds). We also would expect the Disklavier to push the keys more softly during the Quiet Mode, as if the keys are being played by a quiet human late at night...(not as a MIDI originally recorded for a large crowded room)...smiles
On Monday, May 21, 2018, 12:04:13 PM PDT, Carol Beigel carol@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Remember first what you bought is a piano. Usually the more irritating the problem the easier it is to fix. Call your dealer. Sounds like a simple adjustment to a rail.

Carol Beigel, RPT

Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2018, at 2:42 PM, 'Spencer Chase' lists@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

this piano might be too new for group members to know the specific details. i would contact the dealer to whom you paid a fortune and ask them to fix the problem. it is really difficult to imagine that Yamaha would overlook such a problem. it might be a simple setting or matter of calibration or regulation.
here are a few thoughts:pianos are actually quite noisy, in normal playing the sound of the music covers the sound of the action noise.solenoids are noisy too but it should be possible to make them pretty quiet. on my LX pianos what you hear when the solenoids are driven very softly is a sort of electronic modulation noise which sounds quite unnatural you also hear the action noise as various parts click and release et. this is just a part of electronic piano music.
in quiet mode the hammers are disconnected from the rest of the action and it would seem to make sense the Yamaha would use a minimal key actuation force to make it as quiet as possible. if this is not the case, shame on you Yamaha !
my guess is that Yamaha does make it as quiet as possible and that maybe you just need regulation. if there is lost motion between the solenoids and the keys this will make a loud clicking noise. also there may be a setting options for silent mode or some sort of calibration routine that the dealer did not bother with. in general piano dealers know little about players and are just glad to get them out of the door and not have complaints. a lot of people on this forum have had a lt of trouble finding decent service people who really know what they are doing.
play the piano by hand very softly and determine how noisy the action is on its own and then determine how much noisier it is when played in silent mode. i would be satisfied with just a little more noise, if the difference is considerable i would throw a fit :)
you mentioned the problem when playing built in music. is there less of a problem with externally provided music? it is possible that the keys are being driven as if they were intended to be playing when in fact it is silent mode. this would be stupid but a possibility.
you can download the virtual keyboard program from the download page of my web site. try different velocity setting and you can determine exactly how loud the piano plays at various levels. selecting a very low velocity (i think yamaha still considers velocity 20 to be the minimum) you should just barely play the strings (or not at all in silent mode) and can tell how much noise comes from the action and solenoids. if you get more quiet playing than when in silent mode and playing internal recordings then the silent playing is not playing with minimal force and hopefully this is something that can be adjusted by someone who really knows the internals of the disklavier.
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only..
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
21220 92nd Place W., Edmonds, WA 98020
Spencer@spencerserolls..com
Spencer@...
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.poodlex.com
(425) 791-0309
(707) 223-8212
------ Original Message ------From: "sam gebala samgebala@... [disklavier]" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>To: "disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>Sent: 5/21/2018 10:59:13 AMSubject: [disklavier] ENSPIRE keys too loud, in Quite Mode

Just bought a new Disklavier Enspire model DGB1K ENST. Sadly, the keys click very loudly, especially in “Quiet Mode”, when playing recorded built-in songs. The clicking key sounds drown the music coming from the speakers below (in Quiet Mode). Can the solenoids be adjusted to move the keys less forcibly when the piano is playing a song at low volume (especially in Quiet Mode?). We live in a very quiet townhouse,(disabling key movement, using the EN App, in Quiet Mode would defeat the purpose of getting a Disklavier piano.) We got this piano because it moves the keys as if the piano is being played by a human. We are thinking of returning this piano. Thank you is advance for the reply.