Disklavier

Hi,

I went to view a IIXG C3 yesterday for a possible purchase fro my studio, but unfortunately there were a few things that bothered me.

1. Fault??.. the Sustain pedal seemed to intermittently put out midi data, it recorded and played back the pedal info fine on the internal recorder.. (suggesting the sensors on the pedal were working) but when connected over midi it mainly didn't work and occasionally put out signals just under 60 velocity. Anyone shed any light on this?? or do you think its a fault with the controller unit? I first ran it in protools.. and then used midi monitor to check what was coming in and it confirmed what I was seeing in Protools.

2.. Action.. The action seemed strange as in the piano wouldn't play very soft notes.. on inspection of the midi data I recorded it seem to record the notes as midi fine, but the piano both didn't play the note when the pianist sat at the piano or during playback of the midi file. I am told that the silent system requires for the hammers to be regulated further from the strings compared to a regular C3. Is this really the case that the action is effected that badly?. This is quite a deal breaker in a recording studio situation.. and if so am I right in thinking if the silent system is removed or permanently disengaged the hammers can be regulated closer to the strings making it identical to non Disklavier C3s?

3.. Solenoid noise. The solenoids felt noisy to me from a recording perspective. I kind of expected the solenoids to make no more noise than someone playing the piano themselves, but actually you really could hear them lightly clonking away.. is this something that can be improved with servicing etc.?

Thanks for your help. Paul, The Old Chapel Studios, Chichester

Good morning, everyone.

Paul, here are my thoughts on your situation:

(1) The sustain pedal is probably out of adjustment. Proper mechanical regulation of the sustain pedal is a technical issue that sits at the heart of the Disklavier system. Once the pedal is put into proper mechanical regulation (with an appropriate amount of “lost motion”), the piano’s hidden calibration program should be run to ensure that the instrument understands its own regulation.

I should additionally point out that the pedal sends incremental MIDI data for controller 64. In other words, it does not behave like a simple on/off switch, such as sustain pedals found on many other acoustic pianos, early digital pianos, and low end keyboards. Thus, if you tend to “ride the pedal” slightly with your foot, you may, in fact, be sending out a continuous stream of low values for controller 64. If your piano is in proper regulation, those extra MIDI messages will have no adverse affect on playback.

(2) If your piano is in proper mechanical regulation and has been calibrated, each press of the key that results in audible sound should send out both note-on and note-off messages. If your sequencer shows that those messages have been received, then you know that the sensing system is doing its job. Unless there is a playback problem with your piano, playback should be use fine.

HOWEVER, when you are working with a sequencer, you can send up with a mismatch of MIDI channels. You have to think of the Disklavier as 2 instruments in one: an acoustic piano and a MIDI tone generator. When it receives MIDI data, the instrument must decide which data is sent to the piano keys and pedals and which data is sent to the tone generator. This is done by setting the MIDI In channel on the Disklavier. The acoustic piano will receive all of the data on the MIDI In channel, and all other data will go to the tone generator.

Let’s say that you record a piano track into your sequencer and it gets assigned to MIDI channel 5. Let’s further assume that your Disklavier is set to receive MIDI data on the default MIDI Channel 1. When you play back your performance from the computer, the keys will not move but the tone generator will respond. However, if the tone generator has its volume turned down, or the speakers are turned down or off, or there are no speakers, you will hear no sound.

(3) I would contact a Disklavier technician regarding solenoid noise. It is possible that the keys and solenoids are not seated properly and the solenoids are banging on the keys.

Regards,
PianoBench

> On Jan 9, 2019, at 6:36 PM, paul_burton@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to view a IIXG C3 yesterday for a possible purchase fro my studio, but unfortunately there were a few things that bothered me.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Fault??.. the Sustain pedal seemed to intermittently put out midi data, it recorded and played back the pedal info fine on the internal recorder.. (suggesting the sensors on the pedal were working) but when connected over midi it mainly didn't work and occasionally put out signals just under 60 velocity. Anyone shed any light on this?? or do you think its a fault with the controller unit? I first ran it in protools.. and then used midi monitor to check what was coming in and it confirmed what I was seeing in Protools.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.. Action.. The action seemed strange as in the piano wouldn't play very soft notes.. on inspection of the midi data I recorded it seem to record the notes as midi fine, but the piano both didn't play the note when the pianist sat at the piano or during playback of the midi file. I am told that the silent system requires for the hammers to be regulated further from the strings compared to a regular C3. Is this really the case that the action is effected that badly?. This is quite a deal breaker in a recording studio situation.. and if so am I right in thinking if the silent system is removed or permanently disengaged the hammers can be regulated closer to the strings making it identical to non Disklavier C3s?
> 
> 
> 
> 3.. Solenoid noise. The solenoids felt noisy to me from a recording perspective. I kind of expected the solenoids to make no more noise than someone playing the piano themselves, but actually you really could hear them lightly clonking away.. is this something that can be improved with servicing etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help. Paul, The Old Chapel Studios, Chichester 
> 
> 
>

Hi, again.

Paul, your further description convinces me that the instrument needs some mechanical attention followed by calibration. A Mark IIXG should not drop notes on playback. Pedal data recorded by the internal sequencer should match data recorded by an external sequencer. 

You might want to make sure that your sequencer does not have MIDI Thru or MIDI Echo turned on.

Regards,
PianoBench

> On Jan 10, 2019, at 1:37 PM, paul_burton@... [disklavier] <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> 
> regarding the sustain pedal.. is it a different sensor that sends data to the internal recorder? as that works absolutely fine. its just the midi output that is intermittent some presses you get a signal and other presses nothing.. even though they all register with the internal Disklavier recorder?
> 
> Yes on controller 64 I used a midi monitor software to see exactly what was going on and yes its definitely only on 64.. and intermitent on 64.
> 
> 
> regarding the piano action.. the problem is the piano itself doesn't play the notes when you play lightly even though its registering midi notes in the sequencer.
> 
> I've emailed a local tech. so I'll see what he says. my own tech seems to think everything is adjustable or fixable on the Yamaha's. I just want to make sure people are happy with the light touch performance of the Disklavier system .. which would seem to think this is just a regulation issue.
> 
> THANKS!!
> 
>