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Disklavier

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newbie questions

newbie questions

2002-07-26 by wsc@wsc.mv.com

hello

I've just joined the group -- my used 1994 MX88 upright arrived a couple of
nights ago.  I bought it via eBay for $3999 from a dealer in Dayton, Ohio
(I'll post this on the database soon).  Not the brightest way ot buy a
piano, but it seems to be in fine condition -- all the notes play, the tone
is quite good and even the tuning is surprisingly good considering that it
came 1000 miles on a truck. It came with a few PianoSoft disks, and they
play without problems.  The volume control works well. I've been able to
play midi files directly from my iBook laptop using a MicroLogic Av
sequencer.  So I'm quite happy with the purchase so far.

The manual that came with it is for a later model.  I've ordered the right
one (same as for MX80) from Yamaha, but if anyone is familiar with this age
group of disklaviers, would you mind answering a few questions while i wait
for the manual?  Or can you steer me towards FAQs -- the Yamaha site didn't
seem to be of much use.

The control unit is a DKC5R.  There is no "function" button, so how do I
initiate formatting a floppy disk?  I use a Mac, and if I put one of them
in the drive, it reads "unformatted disk"  -- perhaps a PC format disk will
work as is?
A floppy of Christmas songs was in the drive when it arrived.  I opened it
on my computer via PC Exchange, and it contained standard PC midi files.
As an experiment, I tried putting some of my midi files on that disk, but
the disklavier refused them, saying "convert disk."  How is that done?
When I put the PC files back on the disk, the same "convert" message came
up.

What is the best midi file type for disklavier, type 0 or 1?  Is there a
conversion utility for Macs to convert midi to E Seq?

I'm a paraplegic -- I've only played digital pianos up 'til now, since I
can control the sustain pedal on them using a mercury tilt switch on a
headband. I'm hoping to jack into the pedal solenoid circuit on the
disklavier to use the same head/pedalling technique.  I'll have it done by
a technician, but the first one I talked to wasn't sure how to do it.  Are
there any techie types out there who could make some suggestions about how
to proceed?

Thanks for any help.

Winfield Clark

New Boston, NH

Re: [disklavier] newbie questions

2002-07-26 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good morning, everyone.

In a message dated 7/25/02 9:35:59 PM, Winfield asks a very interesting 
question:

<< I've just joined the group -- my used 1994 MX88 upright arrived a couple of
nights ago....

The manual that came with it is for a later model.  I've ordered the right
one (same as for MX80) from Yamaha...>>

Getting the right manual will help a lot.

<<The control unit is a DKC5R.  There is no "function" button, so how do I
initiate formatting a floppy disk?  I use a Mac, and if I put one of them
in the drive, it reads "unformatted disk"  -- perhaps a PC format disk will
work as is?....>>

This unit only reads double-density disks and an older Yamaha format for MIDI 
files called E-SEQ.

To give yourself modern features (such as high density disk support--DOS 
format, Standard MIDI Files Type 0 and 1, and a built-in tone generator), you 
need a DSR1 (http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gPIO00001DSR1).

<<I'm a paraplegic -- I've only played digital pianos up 'til now, since I
can control the sustain pedal on them using a mercury tilt switch on a
headband. I'm hoping to jack into the pedal solenoid circuit on the
disklavier to use the same head/pedalling technique.  I'll have it done by
a technician, but the first one I talked to wasn't sure how to do it.  Are
there any techie types out there who could make some suggestions about how
to proceed? >>

This raises some interesting issues. Some years ago, I worked with a player 
piano expert to interface a Duo-Art player piano expression unit with an 
Aeolian vorsetzer (a contraption that sits in front of the piano with 88 
fingers placed on the keys) and a Disklavier. Our concept was to convert 
Duo-Art expression rolls to MIDI by recording them directly on the 
Disklavier. The idea worked very well.

The Aeolian vorsetzer did not have a way of playing the pedals automatically, 
so I took a pneumatic switch that I purchased from a player piano supply 
house, attached it to the vacuum tube coming off the hole on the tracker bar 
that was associated with the sustain pedal data, and plugged it into a device 
called Pocket Pedal using a simple 1/4 inch mono plug. Pocket Pedal turned 
the on/off signals into MIDI data (controller 64, values 0 and 127) and sent 
that data into the Disklavier. I set up the Disklavier to respond to MIDI 
input in real time.

You could do the same thing with your mercury switch. Just wire it with a 1/4 
inch jack at the end and plug that into this Pocket Pedal device. 
Alternatively, you could get a similar switch to the one that I used and blow 
into a tube to create the pedal signal.

There are several problems to overcome:

(1) I cannot find Anatek on the web. The last phone # I have is (604) 
430-4336. The answering maching at that number gives a company name of 
Creation Technologies (http://www.creationtech.com/). I suspect that the 
company has changed its line of business. They used to be located in Burnaby, 
British Columbia. They had a really cool line of Pocket MIDI devices. I liked 
their products because no programming was necessary. You created the MIDI 
message that you wanted using a set of dipswitches. Controller 64 was one of 
the choices. Unfortunately, controller 67 (soft pedal) was not a choice.

(2) Another company, called MIDI Solutions (http://www.midisolutions.com/), 
has a similar line of products. The one that you would need is called the 
Footswitch Controller. You have to program it with system exclusive messages, 
however. To do so, you can use a Windows program made by MIDI Solution's for 
this purpose, or use your own sequencer to send in the SysEx message, or you 
can order the device preprogrammed. In any case, it remembers its 
programming. Like the Pocket  Pedal, it accepts a 1/4 inch jack for input and 
gives you MIDI output.

(3) Disklaviers normally reproduce incoming MIDI data 1/2 second late. The 
reason is that the Disklaviers wants to buffer incoming MIDI data, analyze 
the intended timing of the events, and then start moving the keys and pedals 
appropriately so that the results of those movements are synchronized. For e
xample, if the Disklavier did not do this buffering, a note with a velocity 
of 90 would sound a little early compared to a note with a velocity of 40.

Your model of Disklavier has the simplest MIDI implementation of all of them. 
 When it is set up to receive and respond to incoming MIDI data, it will 
always buffer the data by 1/2 second. On other Disklaviers, you can turn this 
delay off, in which case the Disklavier will respond in real time.

This is a long winded way of saying that you will have to adjust the timing 
of your unique way of pedalling so that you pedal early.

I will check with Yamaha to see if there is any way to turn this delay off.

Regards,
PianoBench

Re: [disklavier] newbie questions

2002-07-26 by Carol Beigel

Sounds like you got a very nice piano.  I am surprised though, that you can 
play MIDI files from your computer on it.  I thought that control box only 
plays ESEQ files (Yamaha proprietary).  Perhaps it also plays MIDI format 0 
files, but the tech manual only indicates ESEQ files.
Like PianoBench says, that control box only uses the older double density, 
IBM format (720k) disks.  I think you have to use any old PC with DOS to use 
utility software that will create disks with ESEQ files, or to convert MIDI 
files to ESEQ format.  I don't believe there is any software that runs on a 
Mac that will do that.  Would be nice, though!

There is a combination of buttons you press to format a disk in that unit.  
I forgot what it is.  Maybe it was pushing the Power button at the same time 
you press Play. or Stop, or something like that.  Perhaps someone with a 
similar unit can look it up and post it.

The easiest thing to do though, would be to get a DSR1 unit.

I know from taking the pedal assembly apart a few times that there are nice 
little connectors already on the pedal solenoids.  Perhaps Yamaha could 
offer you a schematic and help with an alternative connection.

Carol Beigel


>From: wsc@...
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@...
>Subject: [disklavier] newbie questions
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:34:58 -0400
>
>hello
>
>I've just joined the group -- my used 1994 MX88 upright arrived a couple of
>nights ago.  I bought it via eBay for $3999 from a dealer in Dayton, Ohio
>(I'll post this on the database soon).  Not the brightest way ot buy a
>piano, but it seems to be in fine condition -- all the notes play, the tone
>is quite good and even the tuning is surprisingly good considering that it
>came 1000 miles on a truck. It came with a few PianoSoft disks, and they
>play without problems.  The volume control works well. I've been able to
>play midi files directly from my iBook laptop using a MicroLogic Av
>sequencer.  So I'm quite happy with the purchase so far.
>
>The manual that came with it is for a later model.  I've ordered the right
>one (same as for MX80) from Yamaha, but if anyone is familiar with this age
>group of disklaviers, would you mind answering a few questions while i wait
>for the manual?  Or can you steer me towards FAQs -- the Yamaha site didn't
>seem to be of much use.
>
>The control unit is a DKC5R.  There is no "function" button, so how do I
>initiate formatting a floppy disk?  I use a Mac, and if I put one of them
>in the drive, it reads "unformatted disk"  -- perhaps a PC format disk will
>work as is?
>A floppy of Christmas songs was in the drive when it arrived.  I opened it
>on my computer via PC Exchange, and it contained standard PC midi files.
>As an experiment, I tried putting some of my midi files on that disk, but
>the disklavier refused them, saying "convert disk."  How is that done?
>When I put the PC files back on the disk, the same "convert" message came
>up.
>
>What is the best midi file type for disklavier, type 0 or 1?  Is there a
>conversion utility for Macs to convert midi to E Seq?
>
>I'm a paraplegic -- I've only played digital pianos up 'til now, since I
>can control the sustain pedal on them using a mercury tilt switch on a
>headband. I'm hoping to jack into the pedal solenoid circuit on the
>disklavier to use the same head/pedalling technique.  I'll have it done by
>a technician, but the first one I talked to wasn't sure how to do it.  Are
>there any techie types out there who could make some suggestions about how
>to proceed?
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Winfield Clark
>
>New Boston, NH
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Re: newbie questions

2002-07-26 by slickfix2

Winfield I have a 1998 Mx 88 Disklavier with the DKC 5R Control Unit.
The Unit only plays Eseq files on MF2DD floppy disks.(Double sided-
double density disks). Not High Density! won,t work. Their are DKV
conversion utilitys that convert Midi to ESEQ files on this site, 
works perfectly as I have done it MANY times.

As to your control units questions, I have the owners manual and can 
scan some pages and E-mail them to you if you want. Some answers are 
as follows:

To format disk: 1)While holding stop button press rec. 2)Press 
Play\button (Yes) twice.

To Name Disk: 1)Press rec. button twice. 2)Hold song select button 
(<<)until blank display. 3)Use remote to input name. 4)Press stop.

To Name song title. 1)Press rec. 2) select song (<< >>) 3.) press
rec again. 4) input name 5)press stop.

To Delete song: 1)Select song (<< >>). 2) While holding stop button 
press reverse (<<). 3).Press play button (Yes) twice.

To enter diagnostic mode (Not documented):1)While holding forward (>>)
and stop buttons turn power on. 2) Press forward(>>) or back(<<)
buttons to select test. 3) Press play to execute test.

Hope this helps.

Eric


> >hello
> >
> >I've just joined the group -- my used 1994 MX88 upright arrived a 
couple of
> >nights ago.  I bought it via eBay for $3999 from a dealer in 
Dayton, Ohio
> >(I'll post this on the database soon).  Not the brightest way ot 
buy a
> >piano, but it seems to be in fine condition -- all the notes play, 
the tone
> >is quite good and even the tuning is surprisingly good considering 
that it
> >came 1000 miles on a truck. It came with a few PianoSoft disks, 
and they
> >play without problems.  The volume control works well. I've been 
able to
> >play midi files directly from my iBook laptop using a MicroLogic Av
> >sequencer.  So I'm quite happy with the purchase so far.
> >
> >The manual that came with it is for a later model.  I've ordered 
the right
> >one (same as for MX80) from Yamaha, but if anyone is familiar with 
this age
> >group of disklaviers, would you mind answering a few questions 
while i wait
> >for the manual?  Or can you steer me towards FAQs -- the Yamaha 
site didn't
> >seem to be of much use.
> >
> >The control unit is a DKC5R.  There is no "function" button, so 
how do I
> >initiate formatting a floppy disk?  I use a Mac, and if I put one 
of them
> >in the drive, it reads "unformatted disk"  -- perhaps a PC format 
disk will
> >work as is?
> >A floppy of Christmas songs was in the drive when it arrived.  I 
opened it
> >on my computer via PC Exchange, and it contained standard PC midi 
files.
> >As an experiment, I tried putting some of my midi files on that 
disk, but
> >the disklavier refused them, saying "convert disk."  How is that 
done?
> >When I put the PC files back on the disk, the same "convert" 
message came
> >up.
> >
> >What is the best midi file type for disklavier, type 0 or 1?  Is 
there a
> >conversion utility for Macs to convert midi to E Seq?
> >
> >I'm a paraplegic -- I've only played digital pianos up 'til now, 
since I
> >can control the sustain pedal on them using a mercury tilt switch 
on a
> >headband. I'm hoping to jack into the pedal solenoid circuit on the
> >disklavier to use the same head/pedalling technique.  I'll have it 
done by
> >a technician, but the first one I talked to wasn't sure how to do 
it.  Are
> >there any techie types out there who could make some suggestions 
about how
> >to proceed?
> >
> >Thanks for any help.
> >
> >Winfield Clark
> >
> >New Boston, NH
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
http://messenger.msn.com

Re: [disklavier] newbie questions

2002-07-27 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good morning, everyone.

I would like to follow-up on this thread:

In a message dated 7/26/02 7:57:59 AM, PianoBench writes:

<< In a message dated 7/25/02 9:35:59 PM, Winfield asks a very interesting 
question:

<<I'm a paraplegic -- I've only played digital pianos up 'til now, since I
can control the sustain pedal on them using a mercury tilt switch on a
headband. I'm hoping to jack into the pedal solenoid circuit on the
disklavier to use the same head/pedalling technique.  I'll have it done by
a technician, but the first one I talked to wasn't sure how to do it.  Are
there any techie types out there who could make some suggestions about how
to proceed? >>

Winfield wrote about his MX80 series Diskalviers.

I double-checked with Mark Wisner at Yamaha and verified that there is no way 
to set the MX80 series Disklaviers to respond to incoming MIDI data in real 
time. Therefore, there will always be the 500 ms delay when you use the MIDI 
pedalling solution that I proposed in my previous email. This would not be 
true with other Disklaviers.

Mark did point me toward this article on the web from PianoDisc:

http://www.pianodisc.com/whatsnew/articles/adapter.html

The article refers to a product for directly interfacing a pedalling system 
(like the one proposed by Winfield) to a PianoDisc system. I cannot find any 
other info about the actual product on the web site, so you will have to call 
the company for more info. I also do not know if that product can be 
interfaced easily with a Disklavier.

You may find that a cleaver technician can custom wire a simple circuit into 
the pedal solenoid on a Disklavier. I don't really know for sure.

Regards,
PianoBench

Re: [disklavier] newbie questions

2002-07-30 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good afternoon, everyone.

To follow-up again on the issue of controlling the pedals from a headset, I 
was pointed to the web site info below by Mark Wisner at Yamaha.

Regards,
PianoBench

Wheelchair Access for the Sustain Pedal
For those that have no control in their legs but would like to be able to 
work the sustain pedal on their piano, I have a solution. It's activated by 
tilting the head and after some practice, the body language of pedal 
activation is not the least bit unpleasant to watch. The bulk of the 
mechanism is mounted under the piano for grands and inside the piano for 
verticals. There is a small "disconnect" or jack mounted under the key board 
on either end of the piano and some thin wire going to the player's head. 
This wire can be concealed or somewhat hidden by running it along the arm 
rest of the chair and up along the player's side to the head band where the 
sensor is. 
This device is run on standard house current, and the voltage to the sensor 
is 5 volts at very low current. It is in no way a permanent installation and 
doesn't do permanent damage to the piano. The existing pedals function as 
they did before, however, on a grand piano they need to be removed so the 
footrests of the wheelchair don't hit anything when the player is positioned 
at the keyboard. 
You can email me at larryf@...

http://home.pacifier.com/~larryf/wheelchr.html

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