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Limiting 'velocity'...

Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-10 by Danny

I have several of the PG Music MIDI CDs / diskettes that I have collected over
the years.

'The Pianist' (classical MIDI) that PG Music put out has all of the pedaling
recorded in an off/on manner which produces a lot of mechanical 'thumps'. All
the rest of PG Music's MIDI releases that I have (Jazz Pianist, Blues Pianist,
New Orleans Pianist, etc.) seem to work just fine, i.e., as in continous
pedaling.

Is there a way within Sonar to 'limit' the pedal action (i.e. to between 20 and
100) and re-save the MIDI file?

I have used .CAL within Cakewalk a while back but I am a little 'green' when it
comes to getting started back in this again.

Any suggestions?


Thanks,

Danny

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-11 by Robert Welcyng

Both Pianist and Jazz Pianist files (at least the ones I have) have 
strictly on/off sustain pedaling.  Based on that and the files' tendency 
toward high note velocities, I'd guess that they were not recorded on a DKV.

There is something you can do to reduce the pedal thumping, and that is 
to limit the pedal excursions to 20 to 95 instead of the original 0 to 
127.

For the following to work well, your pedal must be in good adjustment 
and calibrated.

Here's what you'd do with a Pianist file:

1. Open it in Cakewalk.  In the Track view, you should see a single 
track #1.

2.  Copy the track #1 controllers to Track # 2 as follows:

      a.  Select Track 1 by clicking in far left box.

      b.  Copy the controllers to track #2 with the following CAL routine.

----------------

;Copy Controllers 64-67 to Track 2.CAL
(do
	(TrackSelect 0 0)
	(TrackSelect 0 -1)
	(TrackSelect 1 0)
	(ResetFilter 0 1)
	(SetFilterKind 0 NOTE 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 KEYAFT 0)
	(SetFilterRange 0 5 1 64 67)
	(SetFilterKind 0 PATCH 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 CHANAFT 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 WHEEL 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 RPN 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 NRPN 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 SYSX 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 SYSXDATA 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 TEXT 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 LYRIC 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 WAVE 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 MCI 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 EXPRESSION 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 CHORD 0)
	(SetFilterKind 0 HAIRPIN 0)
	(EditCopy40 1 1 1 0 0 0 )
	(TrackSelect 1 1)
	(EditPaste40 0 1 1 1 191454 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 )
)

----------------

3.  Set the controllers to channel 3.  In the "Chn" box for track #2 
type in a "3".  Now select track 2 and apply the following CAL routine:

----------------

;Set control channel to 3

(do
      (forEachEvent
           (if (== Control.Num 64)
               (= Event.Chan 2)
           )
      )
      (forEachEvent
           (if (== Control.Num 67)
               (= Event.Chan 2)
           )
      )
)

----------------

4. Now with track #2 still selected, apply the following CAL routine:

----------------

;20-95.cal
;Limits sustain pedal to no less than 20
;and no greater than 95

(do
	(forEachEvent
		(if (== Control.Num 64)
			(do
				(if (> Control.Val 95)
					(= Control.Val 95))
				(if (< Control.Val 20)
					(= Control.Val 20))
			)
		)
	)
)

----------------

5.  Now save your file as a type "MIDI Format 1".

If you are using a DKV that will not play SMF1 files from diskette, 
convert the resulting *.mid file to E-SEQ using the Giebler utilities.

This technique also quiets PianoSoft files.  Most of those already have 
continuous pedaling directed to channel 3, so you need only apply the 
20-95 CAL to the pedal track.

As you will notice, after the first pedal depression occurs, the pedal 
will not fully release with a big thump but will remain slightly 
depressed.  I've used this method for about three years and I feel 
confident that keeping the pedal solenoid slightly energized throughout 
a song on a Mark II will not cause overheating.

With an adjusted pedal, a value of 20 will be fully damped and a value 
of 95, fully undamped.  The is no musical reason for the pedal having to 
move further. It is the fall of the damper from 127 to 0 that provides 
plenty of kinetic energy to be dissipated as an audible thump.



Danny wrote:
> I have several of the PG Music MIDI CDs / diskettes that I have collected over
> the years.
> 
> 'The Pianist' (classical MIDI) that PG Music put out has all of the pedaling
> recorded in an off/on manner which produces a lot of mechanical 'thumps'. All
> the rest of PG Music's MIDI releases that I have (Jazz Pianist, Blues Pianist,
> New Orleans Pianist, etc.) seem to work just fine, i.e., as in continous
> pedaling.
> 
> Is there a way within Sonar to 'limit' the pedal action (i.e. to between 20 and
> 100) and re-save the MIDI file?
> 
> I have used .CAL within Cakewalk a while back but I am a little 'green' when it
> comes to getting started back in this again.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-11 by Mark A. Fontana

On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Robert Welcyng wrote:

> There is something you can do to reduce the pedal thumping, and that is
> to limit the pedal excursions to 20 to 95 instead of the original 0 to
> 127.
>
> ...
>
> As you will notice, after the first pedal depression occurs, the pedal
> will not fully release with a big thump but will remain slightly
> depressed.  I've used this method for about three years and I feel
> confident that keeping the pedal solenoid slightly energized throughout
> a song on a Mark II will not cause overheating.
>
> With an adjusted pedal, a value of 20 will be fully damped and a value
> of 95, fully undamped.  The is no musical reason for the pedal having to
> move further. It is the fall of the damper from 127 to 0 that provides
> plenty of kinetic energy to be dissipated as an audible thump.



It should be possible to write a CAL script to replace single hard
pedal-off events (transitions from position 127 to 0) on channel 1 with a
series of 5-6 incremental pedal events on channel 3 that let the damper
down more gradually over the course of, say, 150 ms. That may further
reduce the pedal thumping.

One could make a recording of the desired sustain pedal release and use it
as a model for the CAL script.

Mark

p.s. I would be surprised if the Disklavier did not have a safety feature
to automatically turn off a pedal solenoid that has been activated for
longer than a minute or so.

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-11 by Robert Welcyng

Mark A. Fontana wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Robert Welcyng wrote:
> 
> 
>>There is something you can do to reduce the pedal thumping, and that is
>>to limit the pedal excursions to 20 to 95 instead of the original 0 to
>>127.
>>
>>...
>>
>>As you will notice, after the first pedal depression occurs, the pedal
>>will not fully release with a big thump but will remain slightly
>>depressed.  I've used this method for about three years and I feel
>>confident that keeping the pedal solenoid slightly energized throughout
>>a song on a Mark II will not cause overheating.
>>
>>With an adjusted pedal, a value of 20 will be fully damped and a value
>>of 95, fully undamped.  The is no musical reason for the pedal having to
>>move further. It is the fall of the damper from 127 to 0 that provides
>>plenty of kinetic energy to be dissipated as an audible thump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should be possible to write a CAL script to replace single hard
> pedal-off events (transitions from position 127 to 0) on channel 1 with a
> series of 5-6 incremental pedal events on channel 3 that let the damper
> down more gradually over the course of, say, 150 ms. That may further
> reduce the pedal thumping.
> 
> One could make a recording of the desired sustain pedal release and use it
> as a model for the CAL script.

RW: It would not be difficult to write a CAL script to substitute a 
5-step transition for on-to-off or off-to-on using either either some 
arbitrary rate of change or actual pedal release data from a recording. 
  Since an actual transition of on-to-off doesn't occur instantaneously, 
one would want to set the rate of fall in the Cal routine a little 
slower so that the damper would actually pause at each step.

I like the idea, Mark, and will put it on my to do list to try.

> 
> Mark
> 
> p.s. I would be surprised if the Disklavier did not have a safety feature
> to automatically turn off a pedal solenoid that has been activated for
> longer than a minute or so.

RW:  I do know that there are temperature sensors on the pedal solenoids 
and an associated error if one is shut down.  I've never seen that 
happen on mine.  I suspect that Yamaha, not having control of what might 
be played, designed the pedal solenoids for continuous duty. The left 
pedal is also subject to long periods of actuation.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-11 by Danny

> Is there a way within Sonar to 'limit' the pedal action (i.e. to between 20
and
> 100) and re-save the MIDI file?
>
> I have used .CAL within Cakewalk a while back but I am a little 'green' when
it
> comes to getting started back in this again.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny


I just want to thank Robert for his procedure on 'how-tos' for Cakewalk MIDI
editing. Also thanks to Mark for his followup suggestion for the 'incremental'
pedaling. And to Spencer who replied to me privately with his generous offer for
help.

And of course to Carol, Robert, and Pianobench who offer their help and
suggestions to all on a regular basis.

Great list here, Todd!


Danny

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-11 by Todd Muncy

Danny,
You've just named off at least half of the key people in the group. It is them, not me, that made this group what it is today.
With 858 members, we are the 3rd largest of the 180 piano groups listed in the Yahoo Groups directory, despite our membership only status.
Todd Muncy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

> Is there a way within Sonar to 'limit' the pedal action (i.e. to between 20
and
> 100) and re-save the MIDI file?
>
> I have used .CAL within Cakewalk a while back but I am a little 'green' when
it
> comes to getting started back in this again.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Danny


I just want to thank Robert for his procedure on 'how-tos' for Cakewalk MIDI
editing. Also thanks to Mark for his followup suggestion for the 'incremental'
pedaling. And to Spencer who replied to me privately with his generous offer for
help.

And of course to Carol, Robert, and Pianobench who offer their help and
suggestions to all on a regular basis.

Great list here, Todd!


Danny



To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [disklavier] Limiting 'velocity'...

2003-03-16 by Spencer Chase

Greetings Danny,

Did the modified file I sent work, or does the pedal need to be on a
different track or channel?

I think there was a bug in the program that might have converted a
couple of notes to pedal controls but it is fixed now so any
subsequent files should be OK.

If channels and tracks need to be changed, this can be done easily in
the same routine.

-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 (US MAIL ONLY)
Laytonville, CA 95454 (UPS ONLY)
mailto:spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

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