Disklavier

Hi,

I (really my wife) is the proud new owner of a Mark III Disklavier 
and am really excited about it. I am the technical assistant. I have 
a few questions and I hope I don't get carried away so soon. It is a 
great player piano, but we are interested in recording. 

First a simple question: What does it mean Audio/Midi In on the RCA 
input jack of the Sound Controller? Isn't it all audio whereas the 5-
pin DIN is the MIDI data in? What good is it if the MIDI in can't 
sync in real time. We have to mute the MIDI source even with the Key 
Delay turned off and that still is not satisfactory.

More advanced q's: 

1) Does anyone know what software is used to create the Pianosoft 
Plus CDs? 

2) Is it possible to mute the audio/vocal track of the PS+ CDs?

3) Is it possible to capture/record just the midi/instrumentation of 
the CD for playback on Disklavier?

4) Is there some legitimate way to copy these PS+ CDs? 

5) With Smart Key and a PS+ CD, we can record in sync and play back 
(very nice), but can't from the floppy or memory disk. Haven't tried 
it, but is it possible to put MIDI on the CD and record in sync from 
the keyboard.

TIA,
Fred

Well, Fred, this is where the Owner's Manuals come in real handy!  I will 
try to respond as best I can under each question:

From: "fkagel" <fkagel@...>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [disklavier] Pianosoft Plus
>Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:33:26 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>I (really my wife) is the proud new owner of a Mark III Disklavier
>and am really excited about it. I am the technical assistant. I have
>a few questions and I hope I don't get carried away so soon. It is a
>great player piano, but we are interested in recording.

Disklaviers (DKVs) are the most marvelous things since sliced bread.  Glad 
to know you are enjoying yours!  I think you may want to become acquainted 
with the software called Band In A Box from www.pgmusic.com

>First a simple question: What does it mean Audio/Midi In on the RCA
>input jack of the Sound Controller? Isn't it all audio whereas the 5-
>pin DIN is the MIDI data in? What good is it if the MIDI in can't
>sync in real time. We have to mute the MIDI source even with the Key
>Delay turned off and that still is not satisfactory.

Audio In means that is where you would connect the CD player on your stereo 
system.  You would want to do this if the CD on your DKV broke.  The MIDI on 
the PianoSoft CDs is converted analog signal.
Version 4.45 of the software syncs MIDI keyboard playing to any commercial 
CD.  Check your version by holding down the Play button when you power up.

What is this MIDI source that you are muting?  MIDI should come in thru 
either the MIDI In or the To Host port.  Only MIDI data from a CD comes in 
thru the Audio In.

>More advanced q's:
>
>1) Does anyone know what software is used to create the Pianosoft
>Plus CDs?

It is proprietary Yamaha software.  I don't think there is any commercially 
available software that will do the analog to MIDI (or is it vice versa?) 
conversions.

>2) Is it possible to mute the audio/vocal track of the PS+ CDs?

Yes.  Just turn the volume knob on the left (box under keyboard where the 
Silent feature turns on).  Piano will play but you will hear no singing or 
MIDI.  The music on the CDs comes thru a different amplifier than the 
Ensemble sounds on MIDI floppy disks.
>
>3) Is it possible to capture/record just the midi/instrumentation of
>the CD for playback on Disklavier?

I don't think so.  MIDI information on a CD has been converted.  You can, 
however, capture any MIDI information that comes to you on a floppy disk.

>4) Is there some legitimate way to copy these PS+ CDs?

Yes.  Use any CD disk copy program that you would to copy any other CD on 
your computer.  These are not called "copies" but "back-ups" for your own 
use :-)

>
>5) With Smart Key and a PS+ CD, we can record in sync and play back
>(very nice), but can't from the floppy or memory disk.

What are you recording to?  Oviously, if you are able to "play back" it got 
recorded on either a floppy disk or a memory disk.  The MIDI time code only 
works with the CD.  Copyrighted files from PianoSoft can be copied onto the 
Memory disks, but not back out to your own disks.  You would use the dkvutil 
(disk copy) to "backup" your Pianosoft floppies.  The program is located in 
the Files section of this website, but dkvcopy only works in real DOS, not 
virtual DOS.  Won't work with Windows NT or XP.


 >Haven't tried
>it, but is it possible to put MIDI on the CD and record in sync from
>the keyboard.

Not yet, for Yamaha Disklaviers.  Cannot put MIDI files on a CD and expect 
the DKV to play them.  I do believe you can record several tracks at once.  
Put the MIDI data you already have on one track, and record your piano 
playing on another track. Look in the Owners Manual about over dubbing and 
merging tracks.


Carol Beigel

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Carol,

Thnx for the comeback.
 
> Disklaviers (DKVs) are the most marvelous things since sliced 
bread.  Glad to know you are enjoying yours!  I think you may want to 
become acquainted with the software called Band In A Box from 
www.pgmusic.com

I am already familar with BnB, PG's PowerTracks, and several other 
s/w sequencers. What I was trying to is to slave the DKV directly to 
a Roland keyboard. The delay even in real time makes it imposible to 
sync with the Roland. I want to be able to use and record the rhythm 
accompaniments from the Roland. The MIDI comes thru but cuts out as 
soon as I attempt to record, which I understand is not possible. I 
haven't try to connect the PC directly to the DKV yet and use 
sequencing s/w.


> 
> >First a simple question: What does it mean Audio/Midi In on the 
RCA input jack of the Sound Controller? Isn't it all audio whereas 
the 5-pin DIN is the MIDI data in? What good is it if the MIDI in 
can't sync in real time. We have to mute the MIDI source even with 
the Key Delay turned off and that still is not satisfactory.
> 
> Audio In means that is where you would connect the CD player on 
your stereo system.  You would want to do this if the CD on your DKV 
broke.

This is useless. I don't understand why this is also labeled MIDI, 
which it is not (just audio coming from a MIDI source)!

>The MIDI on the PianoSoft CDs is converted analog signal.

OK, that clarifies that issue. The MIDI data is not recordable as 
MIDI data through the remote directly. Thnx.

> Version 4.45 of the software syncs MIDI keyboard playing to any 
commercial CD.  Check your version by holding down the Play button 
when you power up.

Yep, we have successfully done that. We do have version 4.45. 
> 
> What is this MIDI source that you are muting?

From the Roland above.

> MIDI should come in thru either the MIDI In or the To Host port.  
Only MIDI data from a CD comes in thru the Audio In.

Hmmm. Not sure if I understand you here! Are u saying that MIDI data 
comes in as MIDI data or as Analog? I thought u said that it is only 
analog.


> >1) Does anyone know what software is used to create the Pianosoft
> >Plus CDs?
> 
> It is proprietary Yamaha software.  I don't think there is any 
commercially available software that will do the analog to MIDI (or 
is it vice versa?) conversions.

So, no go with PG's PowerTracks Audio Pro or Cakewalk and others 
which can mix audio and MIDI. Simply can't output to DKV, right?

> 
> >2) Is it possible to mute the audio/vocal track of the PS+ CDs?
> 
> Yes.  Just turn the volume knob on the left (box under keyboard 
where the Silent feature turns on).  Piano will play but you will 
hear no singing or MIDI.  The music on the CDs comes thru a different 
amplifier than the Ensemble sounds on MIDI floppy disks.

So, you are saying the Audio on the CDs does NOT contain MIDI data at 
all other than piano for the Keyboard, is that correct? The CD is 
strictly analog except for the keyboard data? 

> >
> >3) Is it possible to capture/record just the midi/instrumentation 
of the CD for playback on Disklavier?
> 
> I don't think so.  MIDI information on a CD has been converted.  
You can, however, capture any MIDI information that comes to you on a 
floppy disk.

Yeh, I see that the older E-SEQ format on the floppies can be 
converted to SMF. Haven't tried it yet.

> 
> >4) Is there some legitimate way to copy these PS+ CDs?
> 
> Yes.  Use any CD disk copy program that you would to copy any other 
CD on your computer.  These are not called "copies" but "back-ups" 
for your own use :-)

Cool! But not so lucky with the floppies yet.
 

> >5) With Smart Key and a PS+ CD, we can record in sync and play back
> >(very nice), but can't from the floppy or memory disk.
> 
> What are you recording to?  Oviously, if you are able to "play 
back" it got recorded on either a floppy disk or a memory disk.  The 
MIDI time code only works with the CD.  Copyrighted files from 
PianoSoft can be copied onto the Memory disks, but not back out to 
your own disks.  You would use the dkvutil (disk copy) to "backup" 
your Pianosoft floppies.  The program is located in the Files section 
of this website, but dkvcopy only works in real DOS, not virtual 
DOS.  Won't work with Windows NT or XP.

Thnx for the insight.

>  >Haven't tried it, but is it possible to put MIDI on the CD and 
record in sync from the keyboard.
> 
> Not yet, for Yamaha Disklaviers.  Cannot put MIDI files on a CD and 
expect the DKV to play them.  I do believe you can record several 
tracks at once. Put the MIDI data you already have on one track, and 
record your piano playing on another track. Look in the Owners Manual 
about over dubbing and merging tracks.
> 
Probably better off using sequencer software, but I will check out 
the Owner's Manual further.

Thnx,
Fred

There are others on this list who are far more familiar with the MIDI 
workings and pass-throughs than I am, so they will probably chime in at 
their convenience.  If you want to interface your Roland, you need to 
connect it to the DKV thru the MIDI ports on the Control Box, not the Sound 
Controller (?) that I am assuming you mean the amplifier under the piano.

There  is MIDI and there is analog MIDI.  Anytime you are using a CD, you 
are using analog MIDI.  When you use sequencer software, the memory or 
floppy disks, you are using the MIDI that you can totally play around with.  
The audio CDs that contain singing also contain MIDI data (on another track) 
that play the piano keys.  The orchestra sounds can be audio on a CD, but 
they are MIDI Ensemble sounds when they are on a PianoSoft floppy disk, and 
come thru a soundcard in the control box - not the amplifier.

You can turn off the MIDI delay or leave it at 500 msecs.  Check the 
instrucitons for pass-thru and controller issues.

You might be able to make your own audio/MIDI CDs using software that mixes 
audio and MIDI, but I don't know if they will play in a Disklavier.

I believe the DKV only records what you play on the keyboard on Channels 1 
and 2.  Percussion tracks play back on a DKV on  Channel 10.  Perhaps you 
could mix the percussion tracks off the Roland with a keyboard performance 
on the DKV using sequencing software and a computer!  It seems to me that 
you might be able to render those percussion tracks to .wav files and burn 
them to a CD.  Then put the CD into the DKV and use PianoSmart with its MIDI 
Time Code to record a piano accompaniment.  But then again, I have not tried 
this.

There is some really good information in the archives of this website.  Some 
of us are content to just listen to our pianos, while others know all about 
the MIDI and how those CDs are made.

Carol Beigel
crbrpt@...



>From: "fkagel" <fkagel@...>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [disklavier] Re: Pianosoft Plus
>Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:00:58 -0000
>
>Carol,
>
>Thnx for the comeback....
>

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Fred,

Unfortunately, you will have to give up the view of the DKV as another 
electronic synth that you can play real-time from the Roland KB.

I haven't the full picture of your intentions, but here is something you 
can do:  Record your piano rhythm and accompaniment on a track in 
PowerTracks using your Roland keyboard.  Next, play that rhythm sequence 
in PowerTracks on your DKV while you play the melody on the DKV and 
record the DKV's keyboard-out to another track of PowerTracks.  Now, in 
PowerTracks, slide the track you just recorded by a half-second to sync 
it with the accompaniment.


fkagel wrote:
> Carol,
> 
> Thnx for the comeback.
>  
> 
>>Disklaviers (DKVs) are the most marvelous things since sliced 
> 
> bread.  Glad to know you are enjoying yours!  I think you may want to 
> become acquainted with the software called Band In A Box from 
> www.pgmusic.com
> 
> I am already familar with BnB, PG's PowerTracks, and several other 
> s/w sequencers. What I was trying to is to slave the DKV directly to 
> a Roland keyboard. The delay even in real time makes it imposible to 
> sync with the Roland. I want to be able to use and record the rhythm 
> accompaniments from the Roland. The MIDI comes thru but cuts out as 
> soon as I attempt to record, which I understand is not possible. I 
> haven't try to connect the PC directly to the DKV yet and use 
> sequencing s/w.
> 
> 
> 
>>>First a simple question: What does it mean Audio/Midi In on the 
>>
> RCA input jack of the Sound Controller? Isn't it all audio whereas 
> the 5-pin DIN is the MIDI data in? What good is it if the MIDI in 
> can't sync in real time. We have to mute the MIDI source even with 
> the Key Delay turned off and that still is not satisfactory.
> 
>>Audio In means that is where you would connect the CD player on 
> 
> your stereo system.  You would want to do this if the CD on your DKV 
> broke.
> 
> This is useless. I don't understand why this is also labeled MIDI, 
> which it is not (just audio coming from a MIDI source)!
> 
> 
>>The MIDI on the PianoSoft CDs is converted analog signal.
> 
> 
> OK, that clarifies that issue. The MIDI data is not recordable as 
> MIDI data through the remote directly. Thnx.
> 
> 
>>Version 4.45 of the software syncs MIDI keyboard playing to any 
> 
> commercial CD.  Check your version by holding down the Play button 
> when you power up.
> 
> Yep, we have successfully done that. We do have version 4.45. 
> 
>>What is this MIDI source that you are muting?
> 
> 
>>From the Roland above.
> 
> 
>>MIDI should come in thru either the MIDI In or the To Host port.  
> 
> Only MIDI data from a CD comes in thru the Audio In.
> 
> Hmmm. Not sure if I understand you here! Are u saying that MIDI data 
> comes in as MIDI data or as Analog? I thought u said that it is only 
> analog.
> 
> 
> 
>>>1) Does anyone know what software is used to create the Pianosoft
>>>Plus CDs?
>>
>>It is proprietary Yamaha software.  I don't think there is any 
> 
> commercially available software that will do the analog to MIDI (or 
> is it vice versa?) conversions.
> 
> So, no go with PG's PowerTracks Audio Pro or Cakewalk and others 
> which can mix audio and MIDI. Simply can't output to DKV, right?
> 
> 
>>>2) Is it possible to mute the audio/vocal track of the PS+ CDs?
>>
>>Yes.  Just turn the volume knob on the left (box under keyboard 
> 
> where the Silent feature turns on).  Piano will play but you will 
> hear no singing or MIDI.  The music on the CDs comes thru a different 
> amplifier than the Ensemble sounds on MIDI floppy disks.
> 
> So, you are saying the Audio on the CDs does NOT contain MIDI data at 
> all other than piano for the Keyboard, is that correct? The CD is 
> strictly analog except for the keyboard data? 
> 
> 
>>>3) Is it possible to capture/record just the midi/instrumentation 
>>
> of the CD for playback on Disklavier?
> 
>>I don't think so.  MIDI information on a CD has been converted.  
> 
> You can, however, capture any MIDI information that comes to you on a 
> floppy disk.
> 
> Yeh, I see that the older E-SEQ format on the floppies can be 
> converted to SMF. Haven't tried it yet.
> 
> 
>>>4) Is there some legitimate way to copy these PS+ CDs?
>>
>>Yes.  Use any CD disk copy program that you would to copy any other 
> 
> CD on your computer.  These are not called "copies" but "back-ups" 
> for your own use :-)
> 
> Cool! But not so lucky with the floppies yet.
>  
> 
> 
>>>5) With Smart Key and a PS+ CD, we can record in sync and play back
>>>(very nice), but can't from the floppy or memory disk.
>>
>>What are you recording to?  Oviously, if you are able to "play 
> 
> back" it got recorded on either a floppy disk or a memory disk.  The 
> MIDI time code only works with the CD.  Copyrighted files from 
> PianoSoft can be copied onto the Memory disks, but not back out to 
> your own disks.  You would use the dkvutil (disk copy) to "backup" 
> your Pianosoft floppies.  The program is located in the Files section 
> of this website, but dkvcopy only works in real DOS, not virtual 
> DOS.  Won't work with Windows NT or XP.
> 
> Thnx for the insight.
> 
> 
>> >Haven't tried it, but is it possible to put MIDI on the CD and 
> 
> record in sync from the keyboard.
> 
>>Not yet, for Yamaha Disklaviers.  Cannot put MIDI files on a CD and 
> 
> expect the DKV to play them.  I do believe you can record several 
> tracks at once. Put the MIDI data you already have on one track, and 
> record your piano playing on another track. Look in the Owners Manual 
> about over dubbing and merging tracks.
> 
> Probably better off using sequencer software, but I will check out 
> the Owner's Manual further.
> 
> Thnx,
> Fred 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
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> 
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> 
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> 
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska