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copyright

copyright

2000-04-13 by Greg Sparacino

Todd,

Is it ok to upload midi files to the vault that I have made if the 
songs are still under copyright?  I think most that are in my 
collection are.  I vaguely remember some discussion about this a 
couple of months ago, and possibly some uploads were removed but I 
don't remember the details.  (When you get older you ger CRS-Cant 
remember "Stuff"!)

Any way I am creating midi files from the music in my collection 
using Smartscore and would like to post some of them.  I am just 
finishing up a group of 40 some odd Hawaiian tunes.  Some of them are 
gems.  I have a huge collection of songs (approx 2000 titles), about 
half sheet music the rest in books,  from 1900 to mid 1950's. Estate 
sales are a great source for old music.  Also A very dear friend who 
played piano, organ & accordion from the 30's on, has recently gone 
into a rest home and gave me his collection of music. 

Also I have finally posted the price and dealer name for my purchase 
of my MX88 & DSR1.  Thanks for your patience on that.

Greg Sparacino

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-04 by Carol Beigel

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website. There are at least two copyrights for any song, and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music. Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance. Some copyrights eventually expire. For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright. Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune. I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance. It's not like he is making any money on this.
Carol Beigel
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Dereck Barnes MIDI File . . .

Good morning, everyone.

The file is lovely, of course. However, I would like to point out that it contains copyrighted music for which the law expects a recording royalty to be paid when publicly distributed. Unless a fee has been paid for distribution, I suggest caution about sharing these files as email attachments. Each one of us who receives and opens the email inadvertently downloads an apparently illegal file.

Please note that I am not defending the law, I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be the reality of the law.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Dec 2, 2010, at 9:55 PM, ROBERT LEBLANC wrote:


Season's Greetings:
The file "Christmas Songs Played By Dereck Barnes 2000.mid" can be found in the Files section of the Yahoo Disklavier users group site:
I've also attached it here, but not sure if subscribers can receive file attachments?
Best Regards,
Robert LeBlanc


From: "Glenn R. Smutny" <G.SMUTNY@...>
Date: December 2, 2010 8:06:42 PM EST
Subject: RE: [disklavier] Re: Merry Christmas From Me and Dereck



Hi Larry,

Please count me in on that as well. It certainly would make for a great early Christmas present.

Thank you in advance,

Glenn

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry McKenzie
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:43 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Merry Christmas From Me and Dereck

I'll try to find it for you. I know I have it somewhere.

Larry McKenzie


On Dec 2, 2010, at 4:26 PM, "shelleybacon" <shelleybacon@...> wrote:

Dear Larry - I was searching for Christmas music for my Disklavier and ran across this old post. Sadly, the attachment is not available. Do you still have the file, and if so, can you attach it again please? I would be very grateful, and chances are others in the group would be too.

Thanks in advance. (And here's hoping you're still a member of this group!)
Shelley

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Larry McKenzie" wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas everybody. Attached is a file that I tried to send a few
> days ago and i don't think it got through. It is a large midi file with
> lots of christmas music recorded by my friend Dereck Barnes a few months ago
> when we were practicing at my house in anticipation of Christmas gigs. I
> just started the recorder and let it run then deleted the blank spots. Hope
> you enjoy it. If you do please send Dereck an email at dbac@... and
> let him know how good he is.
>
> Thanks, Larry.
> __________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>





No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.406 / Virus Database: 271.14.151/3291 - Release Date: 12/1/2010 7:34 AM

Happy again

2010-12-04 by Stephen Medler

Many Thanks 

Great I'll undelete and have Christmas Cheer again!   (I really didn't delete in the first place ;>)

Merry christmas to you all music lovers!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 4, 2010, at 7:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:

> 
> I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website.  There are at least two copyrights for any song,  and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music.  Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance.  Some copyrights eventually expire.  For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright.  Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune.  I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance.  It's not like he is making any money on this.
>  
> Carol Beigel
>

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-04 by Ned Shamo

Thank you Carol,

It's nice to know that "common sense" can still prevail in this crazy new world of lawyers and law suits.

Ned S
On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:


I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website. There are at least two copyrights for any song, and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music. Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance. Some copyrights eventually expire. For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright. Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune. I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance. It's not like he is making any money on this.
Carol Beigel
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Dereck Barnes MIDI File . . .

Good morning, everyone.

The file is lovely, of course. However, I would like to point out that it contains copyrighted music for which the law expects a recording royalty to be paid when publicly distributed. Unless a fee has been paid for distribution, I suggest caution about sharing these files as email attachments. Each one of us who receives and opens the email inadvertently downloads an apparently illegal file.

Please note that I am not defending the law, I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be the reality of the law.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Dec 2, 2010, at 9:55 PM, ROBERT LEBLANC wrote:


Season's Greetings:
The file "Christmas Songs Played By Dereck Barnes 2000.mid" can be found in the Files section of the Yahoo Disklavier users group site:
I've also attached it here, but not sure if subscribers can receive file attachments?
Best Regards,
Robert LeBlanc


From: "Glenn R. Smutny" <G.SMUTNY@...>
Date: December 2, 2010 8:06:42 PM EST
Subject: RE: [disklavier] Re: Merry Christmas From Me and Dereck



Hi Larry,

Please count me in on that as well. It certainly would make for a great early Christmas present.

Thank you in advance,

Glenn

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com ;[mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry McKenzie
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:43 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Merry Christmas From Me and Dereck

I'll try to find it for you. I know I have it somewhere.

Larry McKenzie


On Dec 2, 2010, at 4:26 PM, "shelleybacon" <shelleybacon@...> wrote:

Dear Larry - I was searching for Christmas music for my Disklavier and ran across this old post. Sadly, the attachment is not available. Do you still have the file, and if so, can you attach it again please? I would be very grateful, and chances are others in the group would be too.

Thanks in advance. (And here's hoping you're still a member of this group!)
Shelley

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Larry McKenzie" wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas everybody. Attached is a file that I tried to send a few
> days ago and i don't think it got through. It is a large midi file with
> lots of christmas music recorded by my friend Dereck Barnes a few months ago
> when we were practicing at my house in anticipation of Christmas gigs. I
> just started the recorder and let it run then deleted the blank spots. Hope
> you enjoy it. If you do please send Dereck an email at dbac@... and
> let him know how good he is.
>
> Thanks, Larry.
> __________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.406 / Virus Database: 271.14.151/3291 - Release Date: 12/1/2010 7:34 AM


Ned Shamo
Home: 702-293-3020
Cell: ;702-277-9017

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-04 by George F. Litterst

Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't mean to pick on my friend, Carol, but I would like to clear up a few issues. In doing so, my interest is not in defending the law but merely describing it.


On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:

> I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website.

Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions.

>  There are at lea st two copyrights for any song,

There are many intellectual property rights including:

--the right to reproduce a work
--the right to prepare derivative works
--the right to distribute copies
--the right to perform in public
--the write to display in public
--the right to perform publicly a sound recording

The law further defines the circumstances under which one may record a musical work. The owner of the copyright has the first opportunity to record the work or designate someone to record the work. After than, anyone can record the work if they obtain a mechanical license (named after the piano roll recordings of a hundred years ago).

Based on the latest change in the law (1997), the fee for recording a work is 9.1¢ or 1.75¢ per minute of playing time or a fraction thereof, whichever is greater. In the case of the medley which encompasses many works, I am not sure how the royalty would work.
 
>  and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music.  

These rights are independent of where you are selling something.

> Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance.

The right to perform in public is a defined right. If the medley that was passed around were played in a public place, a royalty would be expected. Many venues pay a blanket license to cover all public performances within the venue.


>  Some copyrights eventually expire.

True. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending upon your perspective), almost every composition and arrangement composed on or after January 1, 1923 is still under copyright. (A few protected works fell into the public domain years ago because the rights owners failed to renew their copyright). Of those works still under copyright, none will become public domain until 2018 or 2019 (not sure of the exact year) due to changes of the copyright law which have extended copyrights. Many copyrights will not expired for many more decades.


>  For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright.

True but typically not the ones of a pop nature.


>  Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune.

True. But that does not change the fact that the law requires the payment of a mechanical license for each copy that has been distributed.


>  I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance.

I think that the gentleman had nothing but the best intentions in sharing his performance.

We're probably "safe" in the sense that in the absence of being repeat offenders, the worst that we are likely to experience is a cease-and-desist letter from an attorney. It should be noted, however, that repeat offenders are regularly sued for such things as trading song files on the Internet and allowing public performances of copyrighted music within a public venue without paying a license fee.


>  It's not like he is making any money on this.


That is true but that has nothing to do with liability under current copyright law. Imagine, for example, buying a piece of copyrighted music, photocopying it, and then giving away the photocopies. In this scenario, you are not making any money. Nonetheless, the action is considered to be illegal. To copy the music, a print license is required, a concept very similar to requiring a mechanical license for the reocording.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.georgelitterst.com
www.timewarptech.com

copyright questions

2010-12-04 by Mike Bensusen

To Whom It May Concern:
Can you please give me some more clarity on this subject? Does this mean that if I buy a piece of sheet music, take it home, hand play it on my piano and someone happens to walk in, because I left my front door open, then I have to pay a performance fee. Where do you draw the line of a public place? If I sing it in the shower the gas company is making money on the extra hot water because I stay in there longer, who has to pay for that, me or the gas company?
Thanks,
Mike

Re: [disklavier] copyright questions

2010-12-05 by MEYERS AND RIFKIN

Most of you either have all or some of your information wrong and what is 
interesting is some of you who are really in error speak   

     with  such  authority.   Best of all this though is some of you really have 
a nice sense of humor.





________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Mike Bensusen <mikexer@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 2:53:53 PM
Subject: [disklavier] copyright questions

   


To Whom It May Concern:
 
Can you please give me some more clarity on this subject? Does this mean that if 
I buy a piece of sheet music, take it home, hand play it on my piano and someone 
happens to walk in, because I left my front door open, then I have to pay a 
performance fee. Where do you draw the line of a public place? If I sing it in 
the shower the gas company is making money on the extra hot water because I stay 
in there longer, who has to pay for that, me or the gas company?
 
Thanks,
 
Mike

Fw: [disklavier] copyright questions Sorry didn't sign my name Dick

2010-12-05 by MEYERS AND RIFKIN

----- Forwarded Message ----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: MEYERS AND RIFKIN <meyerz@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 4:39:03 PM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright questions


     Most of you either have all or some of your information wrong and what is 
interesting is some of you who are really in error speak   

     with  such  authority.   Best of all this though is some of you really have 
a nice sense of humor.

      Dick





________________________________
From: Mike Bensusen <mikexer@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 2:53:53 PM
Subject: [disklavier] copyright questions

  


To Whom It May Concern:
 
Can you please give me some more clarity on this subject? Does this mean that if 
I buy a piece of sheet music, take it home, hand play it on my piano and someone 
happens to walk in, because I left my front door open, then I have to pay a 
performance fee. Where do you draw the line of a public place? If I sing it in 
the shower the gas company is making money on the extra hot water because I stay 
in there longer, who has to pay for that, me or the gas company?
 
Thanks,
 
Mike

Re: [disklavier] copyright questions

2010-12-05 by George F. Litterst

Good evening, everyone.

MIke, you ask excellent questions that are best answered by an attorney (and I am not one). My understanding is that your home is not a public place and therefore the your performance at home is not considered to be public.

I am a piano teacher and I sometimes have recitals in my home. My opinion is that these are not public events. The audience is comprised of invited guests. If I were to open up the recital to the public, then different rules would apply even though the venue is my home.

I have heard at least one music publisher offer the opinion that the recital in my home is a public event under all circumstances. I disagree, and fortunately there seem to be no publishers who are willing to challenge music teachers on this subject.

Typical public venues where you hear music pay blanket license fees to organizations that are comprised of rights holders (such as ASCAP, BMI, and SEACUS). The amount of money that they pay is negotiated based on the size of the venue and the frequency of the performances.

There are many grey areas in the law, and there are a number of principles that a judge would weigh when the circumstances seem to fall into the cracks.

Regards,
PianoBench


On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Mike Bensusen wrote:

To Whom It May Concern:
Can you please give me some more clarity on this subject? Does this mean that if I buy a piece of sheet music, take it home, hand play it on my piano and someone happens to walk in, because I left my front door open, then I have to pay a performance fee. Where do you draw the line of a public place? If I sing it in the shower the gas company is making money on the extra hot water because I stay in there longer, who has to pay for that, me or the gas company?
Thanks,
Mike


Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by Carol Beigel

I don't mean to pick on my friend, George, either.  He certainly has more
intellectual property out there than I do! It is hard to comprehend all the 
little intracies of laws influenced by wealthy special interests.  In the 
case of the shame of the
1997 revision of copyright law we have Sony and Disney to thank for much of
our American musical heritage not entering the public domain.

I sometimes think the reason Classical music is so often performed and 
taught is not that it sounds so great, but it is free.  I grieve the loss of 
many of Gershwin's works getting that same opportunity, as well as the music 
of the 20's, 30's and 40's.  It is a shame the world will suffer this loss 
just to keep Mickey Mouse out the public domain.
My personal protest is that my grandchildren have had little to no exposure 
and no
interest in anything Disney. My wish is that by the time Disney music 
finally enters the public domain, several generations of my descendants 
could care less!

There is a difference between private and public use.  Copyright and 
licensing agreements acknowlege this.  Our Disklavier group is a small 
community of people who have to join the group to have access to the files 
section. Those performance files were placed there by the artists for our 
enjoyment and not profit.  People play these files on their home 
Disklaviers.  Let's not pre-empt our freedom to enjoy these gifts of music
by fear of what might be.

As a piano tuner, I will admit that I am a bit peeved when I see
copied sheet music on pianos that were distributed by the kid's music
teacher.  I think students should buy the piano lesson book.  I realize
there are copyright exceptions for teaching use of material, but I don't
know where the legal line is.

Basically, we need to use common sense.  What we play in our homes is one
matter.  What people make money off is another matter.  If we worry about
all the possibilities of what might possibly be illegal for our private
musical enjoyment we just add to the list of intrusions that others would
have invade our private homes and lives.  Whatever happened to the land of
the free and the brave?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Carol Beigel
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F. Litterst" <PianoBench@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright


Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't mean to pick on my friend, Carol, but I would like to clear up a few
issues. In doing so, my interest is not in defending the law but merely
describing it.

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by Phil Blah

Sorry but this really shits me. Has the world gorn crazy?

What a load of rubbish. No one will care about some guy playing a few old 
christmas songs on his piano and emailing the recording to a few people in a 
group. Just google xmas midi and see how many you find.
 
I would understand if he was SELLING the recordings and perhaps even if it was 
playing in a 'public venue'.
 
I would also understand and appriciate the law if it was a Yamaha disk, but come 
on, it's a private performance on a home piano, infact he changed the songs so 
much that it's not even close to the typical 'jingle bells' etc.
 
And particulary when people even make an issue of a Music teacher and all this 
'public performance' nonsense in her own home, come on.
 
Liten up
 
Philip
 
  

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: George F. Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 5 December, 2010 8:55:14 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright

Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't mean to pick on my friend, Carol, but I would like to clear up a few 
issues. In doing so, my interest is not in defending the law but merely 
describing it.

On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:

> I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to 
>record music and distribute on this website.

Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions.

> There are at lea st two copyrights for any song,

There are many intellectual property rights including:

--the right to reproduce a work
--the right to prepare derivative works
--the right to distribute copies
--the right to perform in public
--the write to display in public
--the right to perform publicly a sound recording

The law further defines the circumstances under which one may record a musical 
work. The owner of the copyright has the first opportunity to record the work or 
designate someone to record the work. After than, anyone can record the work if 
they obtain a mechanical license (named after the piano roll recordings of a 
hundred years ago).

Based on the latest change in the law (1997), the fee for recording a work is 
9.1¢ or 1.75¢ per minute of playing time or a fraction thereof, whichever is 
greater. In the case of the medley which encompasses many works, I am not sure 
how the royalty would work.

> and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell 
>the music. 
>

These rights are independent of where you are selling something.

> Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance.

The right to perform in public is a defined right. If the medley that was passed 
around were played in a public place, a royalty would be expected. Many venues 
pay a blanket license to cover all public performances within the venue.

> Some copyrights eventually expire.

True. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending upon your perspective), almost 
every composition and arrangement composed on or after January 1, 1923 is still 
under copyright. (A few protected works fell into the public domain years ago 
because the rights owners failed to renew their copyright). Of those works still 
under copyright, none will become public domain until 2018 or 2019 (not sure of 
the exact year) due to changes of the copyright law which have extended 
copyrights. Many copyrights will not expired for many more decades.

> For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright.

True but typically not the ones of a pop nature.

> Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune.

True. But that does not change the fact that the law requires the payment of a 
mechanical license for each copy that has been distributed.

> I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his 
>performance.

I think that the gentleman had nothing but the best intentions in sharing his 
performance.

We're probably "safe" in the sense that in the absence of being repeat 
offenders, the worst that we are likely to experience is a cease-and-desist 
letter from an attorney. It should be noted, however, that repeat offenders are 
regularly sued for such things as trading song files on the Internet and 
allowing public performances of copyrighted music within a public venue without 
paying a license fee.

> It's not like he is making any money on this.

That is true but that has nothing to do with liability under current copyright 
law. Imagine, for example, buying a piece of copyrighted music, photocopying it, 
and then giving away the photocopies. In this scenario, you are not making any 
money. Nonetheless, the action is considered to be illegal. To copy the music, a 
print license is required, a concept very similar to requiring a mechanical 
license for the reocording.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.georgelitterst.com
www.timewarptech.com

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by Jeff Kovitz

Yah!

A short message from my iPhone4 (ok I'm weak I got one and love it)...

On 2010-12-04, at 7:34 PM, "Phil Blah" <phil.blah@yahoo.com> wrote:

Sorry but this really shits me. Has the world gorn crazy?
What a load of rubbish. No one will care about some guy playing a few old christmas songs on his piano and emailing the recording to a few people in a group. Just google xmas midi and see how many you find.

I would understand if he was SELLING the recordings and perhaps even if it was playing in a 'public venue'.

I would also understand and appriciate the law if it was a Yamaha disk, but come on, it's a private performance on a home piano, infact he changed the songs so much that it's not even close to the typical 'jingle bells' etc.

And particulary when people even make an issue of a Music teacher and all this 'public performance' nonsense in her own home, come on.

Liten up

Philip

Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: George F. Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 5 December, 2010 8:55:14 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright

Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't mean to pick on my friend, Carol, but I would like to clear up a few issues. In doing so, my interest is not in defending the law but merely describing it.

On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:

> I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website.

Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions.

> There are at lea st two copyrights for any song,

There are many intellectual property rights including:

--the right to reproduce a work
--the right to prepare derivative works
--the right to distribute copies
--the right to perform in public
--the write to display in public
--the right to perform publicly a sound recording

The law further defines the circumstances under which one may record a musical work. The owner of the copyright has the first opportunity to record the work or designate someone to record the work. After than, anyone can record the work if they obtain a mechanical license (named after the piano roll recordings of a hundred years ago).

Based on the latest change in the law (1997), the fee for recording a work is 9.1¢ or 1.75¢ per minute of playing time or a fraction thereof, whichever is greater. In the case of the medley which encompasses many works, I am not sure how the royalty would work.

> and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music.

These rights are independent of where you are selling something.

> Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance.

The right to perform in public is a defined right. If the medley that was passed around were played in a public place, a royalty would be expected. Many venues pay a blanket license to cover all public performances within the venue.

> Some copyrights eventually expire.

True. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending upon your perspective), almost every composition and arrangement composed on or after January 1, 1923 is still under copyright. (A few protected works fell into the public domain years ago because the rights owners failed to renew their copyright). Of those works still under copyright, none will become public domain until 2018 or 2019 (not sure of the exact year) due to changes of the copyright law which have extended copyrights. Many copyrights will not expired for many more decades.

> For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright.

True but typically not the ones of a pop nature.

> Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune.

True. But that does not change the fact that the law requires the payment of a mechanical license for each copy that has been distributed.

> I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance.

I think that the gentleman had nothing but the best intentions in sharing his performance.

We're probably "safe" in the sense that in the absence of being repeat offenders, the worst that we are likely to experience is a cease-and-desist letter from an attorney. It should be noted, however, that repeat offenders are regularly sued for such things as trading song files on the Internet and allowing public performances of copyrighted music within a public venue without paying a license fee.

> It's not like he is making any money on this.

That is true but that has nothing to do with liability under current copyright law. Imagine, for example, buying a piece of copyrighted music, photocopying it, and then giving away the photocopies. In this scenario, you are not making any money. Nonetheless, the action is considered to be illegal. To copy the music, a print license is required, a concept very similar to requiring a mechanical license for the reocording.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.georgelitterst.com
www.timewarptech.com


Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by Stephen Medler

I guess I'll delete my file again, until someone from BIG GOVERNMENT tells me I can play  Christmas music, excuse me make that Holiday music .   :>

Seriously I hope all of you have some serious fun this season playing and listening to music and not reading copyright law.

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by Steven Trawford

does anyone have a midi for row row row your boat that would make my M4 sing? Ty in advance!
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On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Stephen Medler <smedler@...> wrote:


I guess I'll delete my file again, until someone from BIG GOVERNMENT tells me I can play Christmas music, excuse me make that Holiday music . :>

Seriously I hope all of you have some serious fun this season playing and listening to music and not reading copyright law.




--
Steve Trawford
Piano Distributors
7606 S. Tamiami Tr. (New Address)
Sarasota, FL 34231

Re: [disklavier] copyright

2010-12-05 by ayanzen@hotmail.com

I couldn't agree more with Phil.
ron


-----Original message-----
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From: Phil Blah <phil.blah@yahoo.com>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 02:34:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright

Sorry but this really shits me. Has the world gorn crazy?
What a load of rubbish. No one will care about some guy playing a few old christmas songs on his piano and emailing the recording to a few people in a group. Just google xmas midi and see how many you find.

I would understand if he was SELLING the recordings and perhaps even if it was playing in a 'public venue'.

I would also understand and appriciate the law if it was a Yamaha disk, but come on, it's a private performance on a home piano, infact he changed the songs so much that it's not even close to the typical 'jingle bells' etc.

And particulary when people even make an issue of a Music teacher and all this 'public performance' nonsense in her own home, come on.

Liten up

Philip

From: George F. Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 5 December, 2010 8:55:14 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] copyright

Good afternoon, everyone.

I don't mean to pick on my friend, Carol, but I would like to clear up a few issues. In doing so, my interest is not in defending the law but merely describing it.

On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Carol Beigel wrote:

> I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I think it is okay for people to record music and distribute on this website.

Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions.

> There are at lea st two copyrights for any song,

There are many intellectual property rights including:

--the right to reproduce a work
--the right to prepare derivative works
--the right to distribute copies
--the right to perform in public
--the write to display in public
--the right to perform publicly a sound recording

The law further defines the circumstances under which one may record a musical work. The owner of the copyright has the first opportunity to record the work or designate someone to record the work. After than, anyone can record the work if they obtain a mechanical license (named after the piano roll recordings of a hundred years ago).

Based on the latest change in the law (1997), the fee for recording a work is 9.1¢ or 1.75¢ per minute of playing time or a fraction thereof, whichever is greater. In the case of the medley which encompasses many works, I am not sure how the royalty would work.

> and a myriad of licensing agreements that could be involved if you were to sell the music.

These rights are independent of where you are selling something.

> Not only can a song be copyrighted, but so can it's performance.

The right to perform in public is a defined right. If the medley that was passed around were played in a public place, a royalty would be expected. Many venues pay a blanket license to cover all public performances within the venue.

> Some copyrights eventually expire.

True. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending upon your perspective), almost every composition and arrangement composed on or after January 1, 1923 is still under copyright. (A few protected works fell into the public domain years ago because the rights owners failed to renew their copyright). Of those works still under copyright, none will become public domain until 2018 or 2019 (not sure of the exact year) due to changes of the copyright law which have extended copyrights. Many copyrights will not expired for many more decades.

> For Holiday music, many of the tunes are out of copyright.

True but typically not the ones of a pop nature.

> Dereck Barnes could copyright his performance but not the tune.

True. But that does not change the fact that the law requires the payment of a mechanical license for each copy that has been distributed.

> I think we are all safe downloading his files and thank him for sharing his performance.

I think that the gentleman had nothing but the best intentions in sharing his performance.

We're probably "safe" in the sense that in the absence of being repeat offenders, the worst that we are likely to experience is a cease-and-desist letter from an attorney. It should be noted, however, that repeat offenders are regularly sued for such things as trading song files on the Internet and allowing public performances of copyrighted music within a public venue without paying a license fee.

> It's not like he is making any money on this.

That is true but that has nothing to do with liability under current copyright law. Imagine, for example, buying a piece of copyrighted music, photocopying it, and then giving away the photocopies. In this scenario, you are not making any money. Nonetheless, the action is considered to be illegal. To copy the music, a print license is required, a concept very similar to requiring a mechanical license for the reocording.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.georgelitterst.com
www.timewarptech.com


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