Disklavier

I am finally thinking about entering the world of
digital audio recordings of piano performances.  I want
a portable set-up so I can record my Dad playing the
piano along with another person playing an old Hammond
organ.  I need to do better than a little boom box with
a cassette tape!   Since so many of you on this list do
such things, I would be interested in what you thought
of the following setup.

I am thinking about buying an Mbox packaged with
ProTools LE 6.7 and a Marshall Electronic MXL-2006
condenser mic, or rather a pair of mics.  I will use my
Evo laptop running XP sp1.

Would the MXL770 mic be better even though it is about
$20 cheaper?  What should be the criteria?

Should I go with ProTools LE 6.9 for an extra $100?
Are the newer file formats worth it, or the capability
to do step audio with video?

I am willing to throw about $600 into this project.  Am
I correct in thinking this would be better than using
my $20 Radio Shack mic plugged into the computer
soundcard using Cool Edit Lite?  Is there really a
difference in the quality of the finished product using
a more expensive audio to digital converter?

Thanks for any help!  If folks deem this question to
not be on topic with this list, please reply privately.
I know that I have a LOT of Disklavier clients who want
to make CD recordings of their piano playing, and I am
looking for a reasonably priced solution!

Carol Beigel
okay, so I know more about the piano, DKV and the MIDI,
but I am dead in the water on the digital recording
angle!

Carol, my suggestion would probably not quite get you there for $600. 
 Personally, I'd consider getting a quality direct-to-CD portable 
recorder such as a Marantz CDR300. Then you can move your takes directly 
to your computer's CD drive and work on them with Cool Edit Lite for 
making a master CD.  That leaves the question of the mics.  If you are 
recording in a house with a refrigerator running or dogs barking next 
door, a big investment in mics is not going to pay off. I would consider 
getting a pair of Crown Sound Grabber mics. They are hemispherical in 
response and quite good quality. You place them on a flat surface like a 
table.  A pair of cardioid dynamic mics and mic stands might also work 
for you.

One problem about choosing mics is that few stores will let you try them 
on approval.  You may find, however, some music and stage lighting 
places that will rent mics that you might be considering.

Making quality piano recordings is not easy and depends upon having a 
quiet spacious room with the right amount of reverb and the right 
placement of the mics.  The best recordings are minimally edited, 
perhaps with only fade-ins and fade-outs at the beginnings and ends.  A 
common problem is picking up radio and TV interference in sensitive mics 
with built-in amplification.

Unlike the Mbox route, if you are unhappy with the project, you can 
always use the portable recorder for something else or sell it with fair 
recovery.

Carol Beigel wrote:

>I am finally thinking about entering the world of
>digital audio recordings of piano performances.  I want
>a portable set-up so I can record my Dad playing the
>piano along with another person playing an old Hammond
>organ.  I need to do better than a little boom box with
>a cassette tape!   Since so many of you on this list do
>such things, I would be interested in what you thought
>of the following setup.
>
>I am thinking about buying an Mbox packaged with
>ProTools LE 6.7 and a Marshall Electronic MXL-2006
>condenser mic, or rather a pair of mics.  I will use my
>Evo laptop running XP sp1.
>
>Would the MXL770 mic be better even though it is about
>$20 cheaper?  What should be the criteria?
>
>Should I go with ProTools LE 6.9 for an extra $100?
>Are the newer file formats worth it, or the capability
>to do step audio with video?
>
>I am willing to throw about $600 into this project.  Am
>I correct in thinking this would be better than using
>my $20 Radio Shack mic plugged into the computer
>soundcard using Cool Edit Lite?  Is there really a
>difference in the quality of the finished product using
>a more expensive audio to digital converter?
>
>Thanks for any help!  If folks deem this question to
>not be on topic with this list, please reply privately.
>I know that I have a LOT of Disklavier clients who want
>to make CD recordings of their piano playing, and I am
>looking for a reasonably priced solution!
>
>Carol Beigel
>okay, so I know more about the piano, DKV and the MIDI,
>but I am dead in the water on the digital recording
>angle!
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@...
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>
>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
>
>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

>> I am finally thinking about entering the world of
>> digital audio recordings of piano performances.  I want
>> a portable set-up

Carol,

There are 3 basic elements that you need to address:

1. The recording space (acoustics)
2. The microphones and mic pres
3. The recording medium

Until # 1 & 2 are right, #3 doesn't matter.

I'm a pro. I also own a top-shelf recording studio and have unlimited  
resources for recording equipment and technology -- when I bought my  
disklavier for my home, I thought I'd "simply" bring some gear home  
and make killer piano recordings... that didn't work as well as I had  
hoped.

1. your acoustic space. crucial. most home environments will not  
translate. mine didn't. and I even brought in expensive bass traps  
and other acoustical material. I ultimately gave up... and now I  
simply use my disklavier to record and fine tune my performances, and  
I go to tape using samples - but that's another thread.

2. I bought a matched pair of Audix SCX-25 mics. These cost about  
$700 each (I paid less). I have used these mics on recordings and  
concerts worldwide, and they are an extremely good value. You could  
spend many thousands of dollars on better mics... I found these Audix  
mics to be accurate and true. They will also let you hear every  
weakness in your acoustic space and instrument.

2B. Mic pres -- I own a very large, very expensive pro tools HD/TDM  
system. I also bought an mBox to do remote editing. The mic pres in  
the mBOX are designed by Focusrite, and for the money, are very good.  
I compared them to my external  high-end pres, and although they  
didn't "suck", the were clearly the weakest link.

3. mBox is a great product for low track count editing. The protools  
LE software coupled with a fast computer is very powerful. And for  
less than $500, an unbelievable value. I can't think of a better  
editing system for the money.

HOWEVER - unless you are satisfied with the acoustics and the  
recorded sound, protools can't help you.

I would be happy to loan you these mics for a few days if you are  
serious about giving it a shot.

Jeremy

THE piano samples that many pros are using right now is IVORY  
<www.synthogy.com> -- Yamaha and Roland boxes are somewhat low end  
for consumers...

To play these samples back, you need a screaming fast machine, at  
least 4 gigs of ram, and a 60 gig RAID for the samples to live on.  
But once you have this, it is a wonderful set of instruments.

I find that piano performances played on my disklavier sound much  
better on ivory than from most midi controllers.

I've recorded countless pianos and part of me is sad that I've gone  
to samples -- but part of me is thrilled to be able to make killer  
recordings without re-inventing the wheel.

jr

On Jun 6, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Buddhika Wije wrote:

>  recon by trying hard to record all you are trying to do is to work  
> hard to do the same thing Yamaha or Roland have done

From: Carpe Per Diem

THE piano samples that many pros are using right now is IVORY
<www.synthogy.com> -- Yamaha and Roland boxes are somewhat low end
for consumers...

**********

Hi,

Currently, Ivory is only available for Mac and not the PC...

There are hundreds of competing sampled piano pacakages out now, each claiming 
to be the best. This is all fairly subjective...

You have the sampled Yamahas, Steinways, B\ufffdsendorfers, etc., and most all are 
recorded in many differing environments, and using many different types of 
recording equipment that add a bit of different 'colors' or very little extra 
'color'. Some recorded samples are better for creating jazz piano sounds 
(mellow), pop (a bit bright), classical (with a bit more of the environment 
sound, i.e., echoes / room reverb), etc.

I have 8 different paid-for piano samples here that I use for different types of 
music. And yes, I do have an over-all favorite set of piano samples that I still 
want to get someday. It never ends... =)


Danny

you would need mic preamps if you go the cd recorder route but in my opinion 
the mbox setup is the way to go...I am an audio engineer with almost 20 
years experience so if you have any questions feel free to email me directly 
at

jsproductions@...
http://www.jstanleyproductions.com


----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@...>
To: <disklavier@...>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] piano audio recordings


> Carol, my suggestion would probably not quite get you there for $600.
> Personally, I'd consider getting a quality direct-to-CD portable
> recorder such as a Marantz CDR300. Then you can move your takes directly
> to your computer's CD drive and work on them with Cool Edit Lite for
> making a master CD.  That leaves the question of the mics.  If you are
> recording in a house with a refrigerator running or dogs barking next
> door, a big investment in mics is not going to pay off. I would consider
> getting a pair of Crown Sound Grabber mics. They are hemispherical in
> response and quite good quality. You place them on a flat surface like a
> table.  A pair of cardioid dynamic mics and mic stands might also work
> for you.
>
> One problem about choosing mics is that few stores will let you try them
> on approval.  You may find, however, some music and stage lighting
> places that will rent mics that you might be considering.
>
> Making quality piano recordings is not easy and depends upon having a
> quiet spacious room with the right amount of reverb and the right
> placement of the mics.  The best recordings are minimally edited,
> perhaps with only fade-ins and fade-outs at the beginnings and ends.  A
> common problem is picking up radio and TV interference in sensitive mics
> with built-in amplification.
>
> Unlike the Mbox route, if you are unhappy with the project, you can
> always use the portable recorder for something else or sell it with fair
> recovery.
>
> Carol Beigel wrote:
>
>>I am finally thinking about entering the world of
>>digital audio recordings of piano performances.  I want
>>a portable set-up so I can record my Dad playing the
>>piano along with another person playing an old Hammond
>>organ.  I need to do better than a little boom box with
>>a cassette tape!   Since so many of you on this list do
>>such things, I would be interested in what you thought
>>of the following setup.
>>
>>I am thinking about buying an Mbox packaged with
>>ProTools LE 6.7 and a Marshall Electronic MXL-2006
>>condenser mic, or rather a pair of mics.  I will use my
>>Evo laptop running XP sp1.
>>
>>Would the MXL770 mic be better even though it is about
>>$20 cheaper?  What should be the criteria?
>>
>>Should I go with ProTools LE 6.9 for an extra $100?
>>Are the newer file formats worth it, or the capability
>>to do step audio with video?
>>
>>I am willing to throw about $600 into this project.  Am
>>I correct in thinking this would be better than using
>>my $20 Radio Shack mic plugged into the computer
>>soundcard using Cool Edit Lite?  Is there really a
>>difference in the quality of the finished product using
>>a more expensive audio to digital converter?
>>
>>Thanks for any help!  If folks deem this question to
>>not be on topic with this list, please reply privately.
>>I know that I have a LOT of Disklavier clients who want
>>to make CD recordings of their piano playing, and I am
>>looking for a reasonably priced solution!
>>
>>Carol Beigel
>>okay, so I know more about the piano, DKV and the MIDI,
>>but I am dead in the water on the digital recording
>>angle!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>>
>>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>>moderator, send it to:
>>disklavier-owner@...
>>
>>To reach our group's web site go to:
>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>
>>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some 
>>fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, 
>>The url is:
>>http://MuncyFamily.com
>>
>>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, 
>>go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That 
>>will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you 
>>insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>>disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Robert Welcyng
> Anchorage, Alaska
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some 
> fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, 
> The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, 
> go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That 
> will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you 
> insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Good morning, everyone.


Keep in mind that typical piano samples do not respond to incremental  
pedal data. I contacted Synthogy about this a while back and received  
this response:

"We do not support continuous sustain pedal in Ivory version 1.  It is
possible that we may support half pedaling features in a future  
version."

The piano sample in a Disklavier, Clavinova, and certain other  
keyboards will respond to incremental pedal data. I am not sure if  
there is any computer-based piano sample that does--I have not  
researched this point thoroughly. In the absence of response to  
incremental pedalling, you need to be careful about how you pedal  
when you make your recording: be sure that you swiftly move the pedal  
from fully up to fully down to fully up as you play.

Regards,
PianoBench

On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:59 AM, Danny wrote:

> From: Carpe Per Diem
>
> THE piano samples that many pros are using right now is IVORY
> <www.synthogy.com> -- Yamaha and Roland boxes are somewhat low end
> for consumers...
>
> **********
>
> Hi,
>
> Currently, Ivory is only available for Mac and not the PC...
>
> There are hundreds of competing sampled piano pacakages out now,  
> each claiming
> to be the best. This is all fairly subjective...
>
> You have the sampled Yamahas, Steinways, Bösendorfers, etc., and  
> most all are
> recorded in many differing environments, and using many different  
> types of
> recording equipment that add a bit of different 'colors' or very  
> little extra
> 'color'. Some recorded samples are better for creating jazz piano  
> sounds
> (mellow), pop (a bit bright), classical (with a bit more of the  
> environment
> sound, i.e., echoes / room reverb), etc.
>
> I have 8 different paid-for piano samples here that I use for  
> different types of
> music. And yes, I do have an over-all favorite set of piano samples  
> that I still
> want to get someday. It never ends... =)
>
>
> Danny
>
>
>
>
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>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahooGroups.com
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>