Disklavier

I am really thinking about to buy a disklavier or similar piano and I
would like to ask what at the cons and pros to buy a disklavier vs QRS
vs pianodisc or similar ones?

The other question that I have if  there is a soft that can extract
the midis so I can open them without the need for the pdfs

thanks!

The Disklavier has what I call a "feedback system". It is "self aware". For
example; the velocity of the key action is measured and compared to the
intended "specified" amount. So if the action solenoid did not produce the
correct intended key "strike" the system compensates causing the music to
stay accurate. It's kind of like the cars of today that measure the amount
of "intended" O2 and CO2 coming from the tailpipe of your car. That system
is always monitoring the changing amount of air to fuel ratio or timing etc
to give your car the best "burn" possible. As your car gets older and goes a
little out of tune; they can partially or completely compensate. The same is
true for the piano. The other systems you mention just play the music
without any self correction or compensation. To me this is way more
important than "fluffy" features.

 

Also, Yamaha is the only company that hosts the once a year (or maybe once
every other year) "E Competition". This competition has highly talented
amateurs around the word such as in Germany playing a Disklavier piano and
the "playback piano" and judges are in Minnesota to hear and judge their
performances. See http://www.piano-e-competition.com/ . You can then
download all this "semi professional" music to your piano-for your listening
pleasure. You can hear the virtual performance that the judges heard. 

 

I could be wrong about this but I am pretty sure the Disklavier Pros record
and playback at a much higher and more accurate "resolution" then its
competitors. 

 

I have also enjoyed the updates that Yamaha puts out. My Yamaha Pro Mark 1V;
which is 2 years old, because of the updates, has all the features of the
new ones.  There service is excellent as well.

 

Good Luck

Neal

 

  _____  

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of senderoaa
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:53 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] re: newbie question...please help!

 

I am really thinking about to buy a disklavier or similar piano and I
would like to ask what at the cons and pros to buy a disklavier vs QRS
vs pianodisc or similar ones?

The other question that I have if there is a soft that can extract
the midis so I can open them without the need for the pdfs

thanks!

> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of senderoaa
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:53 AM
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [disklavier] re: newbie question...please help!
> 
>  
> 
> I am really thinking about to buy a disklavier or similar piano and I
> would like to ask what at the cons and pros to buy a disklavier vs QRS
> vs pianodisc or similar ones?
> 
> The other question that I have if there is a soft that can extract
> the midis so I can open them without the need for the pdfs
> 
> thanks!
>
Senderoaa,

First off, I'd like to suggest you post your query to the PianoDisc
group <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PianoDiscUser/> as well as
the Disklavier group. People tend to 'root' for their own 'team.' I
would also suggest letting owners know the price range and type/size
of piano you have in mind.

For me, the key deciding factor in buying a Pianodisc system for my
living room was that I could choose my own piano. 

The following may be impolite to say here. However, in the home (as
opposed to miked, in a recording studio) I've never liked the sound of
Yamaha pianos when compared to that of American and European pianos,
especially older, well maintained grands. Still, the advantage of
being able to buy a new Yamaha piano, complete with recording/playback
system, ready to be moved into your home may make more sense than to
go to the extra work and possibly greater expense of having a solenoid
system installed in an existing instrument. 

Neal's statement regarding feedback made me curious. I would expect
feedback somewhere in a playback system of this nature. A Google
search tells me that the very expensive Disklavier PRO grands do
extend feedback as far as the keystroke but it doesn't look like the
more common Disklavier pianos have this feature or the greater
resolution of the Pro. What I would like to see is for the feedback
loop to sense the string's reaction to the piano mechanism and
solenoid action. From an engineering standpoint, this would be more
complete and wouldn't be that hard to do but I'm not aware of any
company actually doing it.

None of these companies is very transparent regarding technical
information. The attitude appears to be something like: "We build
beautiful things for busy, rich people. If you want to know what's
inside, you're probably an engineering student and can't afford our
product."

Before I bought, I talked with QRS. I did not get the impression that
they were big enough to make me comfortable regarding long term
product support. There is another small company, owned by one of
Disclavier's developers. The name escapes me but someone here can
probably supply it. His mechanism sounds like it might be more
advanced than the longer established makes but again I worried about
long term support.

While I have a background in engineering and in music I am absolutely
not an expert regarding pianos or these mechanisms. There are a few
experts who participate in these forums. Maybe one of these people
will comment on your choosing the best instrument for your needs.

Regarding software for extracting midis; what are you trying to
extract them from? Do you mean downloading from web sites? I don't
understand how PDFs come into this. Do you want to create midis from
sheet music stored as PDFs?

The Mark IV Disklaviers, do, in fact, "self regulate".  Pro or non-pro.

Although I think it was earlier described as something that is always ongoing,  I'm under the impression that this only happens when the piano is specifically told to run its diagnostics.

-Kevin

----- Original Message ----
From: konaneil <konaneil@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:50:40 PM
Subject: [disklavier] Re: newbie question...please help!



> From: disklavier@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogro ups.com] On
> Behalf Of senderoaa
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:53 AM
> To: disklavier@yahoogro ups.com
> Subject: [disklavier] re: newbie question...please help!
> 
> 
> 
> I am really thinking about to buy a disklavier or similar piano and I
> would like to ask what at the cons and pros to buy a disklavier vs QRS
> vs pianodisc or similar ones?
> 
> The other question that I have if there is a soft that can extract
> the midis so I can open them without the need for the pdfs
> 
> thanks!
>
Senderoaa,

First off, I'd like to suggest you post your query to the PianoDisc
group <http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ PianoDiscUser/> as well as
the Disklavier group. People tend to 'root' for their own 'team.' I
would also suggest letting owners know the price range and type/size
of piano you have in mind.

For me, the key deciding factor in buying a Pianodisc system for my
living room was that I could choose my own piano. 

The following may be impolite to say here. However, in the home (as
opposed to miked, in a recording studio) I've never liked the sound of
Yamaha pianos when compared to that of American and European pianos,
especially older, well maintained grands. Still, the advantage of
being able to buy a new Yamaha piano, complete with recording/playback
system, ready to be moved into your home may make more sense than to
go to the extra work and possibly greater expense of having a solenoid
system installed in an existing instrument. 

Neal's statement regarding feedback made me curious. I would expect
feedback somewhere in a playback system of this nature. A Google
search tells me that the very expensive Disklavier PRO grands do
extend feedback as far as the keystroke but it doesn't look like the
more common Disklavier pianos have this feature or the greater
resolution of the Pro. What I would like to see is for the feedback
loop to sense the string's reaction to the piano mechanism and
solenoid action. From an engineering standpoint, this would be more
complete and wouldn't be that hard to do but I'm not aware of any
company actually doing it.

None of these companies is very transparent regarding technical
information. The attitude appears to be something like: "We build
beautiful things for busy, rich people. If you want to know what's
inside, you're probably an engineering student and can't afford our
product."

Before I bought, I talked with QRS. I did not get the impression that
they were big enough to make me comfortable regarding long term
product support. There is another small company, owned by one of
Disclavier's developers. The name escapes me but someone here can
probably supply it. His mechanism sounds like it might be more
advanced than the longer established makes but again I worried about
long term support.

While I have a background in engineering and in music I am absolutely
not an expert regarding pianos or these mechanisms. There are a few
experts who participate in these forums. Maybe one of these people
will comment on your choosing the best instrument for your needs.

Regarding software for extracting midis; what are you trying to
extract them from? Do you mean downloading from web sites? I don't
understand how PDFs come into this. Do you want to create midis from
sheet music stored as PDFs?

Older versions of the disklavier could not detect accurate key/hammer position during playback as they only had a maximum of 2 beam, 4 position sensing to detect the velocity of the keys and hammers. This meant that playback accuracy depended on the data gathered during calibration of the piano and recorded in a 'piano table'. On very early ones, even this wasn't possible. Playback accuracy depended pretty much entirely on the skill of the engineer physically adjusting the sensor assemblies. To some extent, the last point also applies to newer playback only disklaviers as they don't have any sensors to allow calibration to the extent you find on full function models.

On the Mk IV, you have grey scale sensors which allow continuous sensing of the key and hammer positions.(Hammer sensors only appear on models from the DC3 upwards) This allows the Mk IV to not only sense velocities when a key is played, but also key release information. Using continuous feedback when playing back a piece allows it to do tricks like the ones you see in the "Ultimate Control" demos in the PianoSoft library included on the Mk IV. On the New Pro, you have an additional electro-magnetic sensor on each key solenoid. This additional feedback is used to give the 1024 steps for velocity, rather than the MIDI standard of 128(inc. 0).

Please note that I am using the term "accuracy" in the sense of being able to faithfully reproduce a performance, rather than ultimate resolution (except for the bit about the New Pro)

athomik

On May 20 2008, Kevin Goroway wrote:

>The Mark IV Disklaviers, do, in fact, "self regulate". Pro or non-pro.
>
>Although I think it was earlier described as something that is always ongoing, I'm under the impression that this only happens when the piano is specifically told to run its diagnostics.
>
>-Kevin
>
>

Thanks for the details.

Are you suggesting that the MarkIV is always in this calibration mode, or is it only done while in the service menus?

In other words...If I were to play back the "ultimate control" demo which does "the wave" across the keys and it is not supposed to be striking the strings, yet, it does hit a few...Would playing it back again correct that, or would I have to enter the service menu and tell it to calibrate?

By the way, this is hypothetical... :-)

Thanks.
-Kevin


----- Original Message ----
From: athomik <mail@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:06:40 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: newbie question...please help!


Older versions of the disklavier could not detect accurate key/hammer position during playback as they only had a maximum of 2 beam, 4 position sensing to detect the velocity of the keys and hammers. This meant that playback accuracy depended on the data gathered during calibration of the piano and recorded in a 'piano table'. On very early ones, even this wasn't possible. Playback accuracy depended pretty much entirely on the skill of the engineer physically adjusting the sensor assemblies. To some extent, the last point also applies to newer playback only disklaviers as they don't have any sensors to allow calibration to the extent you find on full function models. 
On the Mk IV, you have grey scale sensors which allow continuous sensing of the key and hammer positions.(Hammer sensors only appear on models from the DC3 upwards) This allows the Mk IV to not only sense velocities when a key is played, but also key release information. Using continuous feedback when playing back a piece allows it to do tricks like the ones you see in the "Ultimate Control" demos in the PianoSoft library included on the Mk IV. On the New Pro, you have an additional electro-magnetic sensor on each key solenoid. This additional feedback is used to give the 1024 steps for velocity, rather than the MIDI standard of 128(inc. 0). 
Please note that I am using the term "accuracy" in the sense of being able to faithfully reproduce a performance, rather than ultimate resolution (except for the bit about the New Pro)

athomik

On May 20 2008, Kevin Goroway wrote: 

>The Mark IV Disklaviers, do, in fact, "self regulate". Pro or non-pro.
>
>Although I think it was earlier described as something that is always ongoing, I'm under the impression that this only happens when the piano is specifically told to run its diagnostics.
>
>-Kevin
>
>