Disklavier

> 
> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!
> 
> Carol Beigel
>

Hi Carol

Just don't throw out the old PC. I have a number of "old" PCs just
because the new one will not do what the old one did.

I have an old laptop because the new one does not have a RS232 com
port. An old PC win 98 because I have a number of programs that
don't like XP. I know you can get USB drives but they do not alwasy
work, my USB com port is com 40 but the software only goes upto com
10.

Having played a little with Parallels for Mac, I found it to be, not
only very slow, but locked up and crashed all the time.

Good luck
Midi Magic

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" ..>
wrote:
>
> My R&D time at the moment is being filled with playing Camp
Grandma. working, and setting up the new iMac, so I thought I would
throw this out to the list in the event someone else might try this
in a more timely fashion than myself.
>
> My Windows 98 computer developed a problem with the motherboard
and there does not seem to be a compatible replacement on the market
today. Bummer! It is just a matter of time before my Windows XP
computers suffer the same fate.
>
> True, the new version of Mac OS10.5 (Leopard) has an included
utility called Bootcamp that will let you install a Windows
operating system. However, it is sort of clunky because you need to
reboot each time you want to swith operating systems.
>
> I believe there is a better alternative called Parallels for Mac
Desktop. You can download a free 2-week trial or pay $79 to keep
it. This software allows one to run virtual operating systems from
the Mac Desktop without rebooting. They talk about Windows XP and
Windows Vista, but it will also run Windows 95 down through DOS6.2.
Lynux, and some other operating systems. You can install as many
virtual operating systems as you want. If you choose setting up a
virtual drive to less than 32G it will format it using the FAT32 -
which is compatible with those dkvutilities. You can also connect a
USB Floppy drive to copy or read Pianosoft disks.
>
> It is my thought that this virtual drive will run the Giebler
utilities and gnmidi programs. Remember to to also load some virus
protection software on your virtual drives if you use Windows!
>
> For those still running Windows XP, there is a free (?) program
called DOSBOX that will run older DOS utilities - probably the
Giebler. Most people use this software to run their favorite older
versions of games that are no longer available. I suspect it works
on Windows Vista as well.
>
> I must admit the new 24-inch iMac is the most elegant computer I
have ever owned. I will probably buy a Mac laptop as well next
year. By then the MarkIV Disklaviers will be able to record
audio. Eventually I will figure out the web software to update my
website and would like to include using Macs with Disklaviers.
>
> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!
>
> Carol Beigel
>

28c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} -->

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary Connoley

To:

Cc:

Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:09 AM

Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Using Disklavier utilities on a Mac

I use vmware fusion for my macpro and have a number of virtual machines such as win xp, homesever, win 2003 server etc for different things. Within the vm you can set whether the USB devices connected to the host are connected to the guest OS. I have used an xp vm to run a home automation application with a USB to serial adapter and two USB devices flawlessly. I just tested dkutil with a USB floppy and it worked fine.

Fusion retails for 100bucks and there is a trial from the vmware site.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Jun 2008, at 10:00, "david962548" <magic_midi@...> wrote:

Hi Carol

Just don't throw out the old PC. I have a number of "old" PCs just
because the new one will not do what the old one did.

I have an old laptop because the new one does not have a RS232 com
port. An old PC win 98 because I have a number of programs that
don't like XP. I know you can get USB drives but they do not alwasy
work, my USB com port is com 40 but the software only goes upto com
10.

Having played a little with Parallels for Mac, I found it to be, not
only very slow, but locked up and crashed all the time.

Good luck
Midi Magic

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" ..>
wrote:
>
> My R&D time at the moment is being filled with playing Camp
Grandma. working, and setting up the new iMac, so I thought I would
throw this out to the list in the event someone else might try this
in a more timely fashion than myself.
>
> My Windows 98 computer developed a problem with the motherboard
and there does not seem to be a compatible replacement on the market
today. Bummer! It is just a matter of time before my Windows XP
computers suffer the same fate.
>;
> True, the new version of Mac OS10.5 (Leopard) has an included
utility called Bootcamp that will let you install a Windows
operating system. However, it is sort of clunky because you need to
reboot each time you want to swith operating systems.
>
> I believe there is a better alternative called Parallels for Mac
Desktop. You can download a free 2-week trial or pay $79 to keep
it. This software allows one to run virtual operating systems from
the Mac Desktop without rebooting. They talk about Windows XP and
Windows Vista, but it will also run Windows 95 down through DOS6.2.
Lynux, and some other operating systems. You can install as many
virtual operating systems as you want. If you choose setting up a
virtual drive to less than 32G it will format it using the FAT32 -
which is compatible with those dkvutilities. You can also connect a
USB Floppy drive to copy or read Pianosoft disks.
>
> It is my thought that this virtual drive will run the Giebler
utilities and gnmidi programs. Remember to to also load some virus
protection software on your virtual drives if you use Windows!
>;
> For those still running Windows XP, there is a free (?) program
called DOSBOX that will run older DOS utilities - probably the
Giebler. Most people use this software to run their favorite older
versions of games that are no longer available. I suspect it works
on Windows Vista as well.
>
> I must admit the new 24-inch iMac is the most elegant computer I
have ever owned. I will probably buy a Mac laptop as well next
year. By then the MarkIV Disklaviers will be able to record
audio. Eventually I will figure out the web software to update my
website and would like to include using Macs with Disklaviers.
>
> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!
>
> Carol Beigel
>

28c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} -->

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

> Greetings Carol,
>
> After writing this I realized that most of this letter is "off  
> topic" but I think people should read it for the warnings about  
> Vista which is one of my main reasons for renewed interest in the  
> Mac. I think that others should be thinking about this too. I am  
> very close to the limit of my tolerance for Microsoft garbage and  
> their total lack of consideration of the needs of their customers.
>
> I am very interested in getting the best software for running my  
> utilities on a Mac. We have a few Macs including a new Intel with  
> bootcamp and I will experiment on that one when I am in the same  
> state as it. Here in California I just have a first generation G5  
> PowerMac or whatever it is (I am a (be default not by design)  
> winsdowz programmer) and would like to put whatever third party  
> software on it that will allow me to run XP. All of my programs run  
> under XP and most actually work (just about as well as anything) on  
> Vista.
>
> What I want most is reliability. I would love to be able to run win  
> programs without rebooting. I am not concerned with saving a few  
> dollars.
>
> On a related thread. Most people probably already know this but  
> Vista is an absolute piece of almost total garbage. There are a few  
> cute features that almost imitate Mac interface but everything else  
> about it is horrible. I will not go into details but I have been on  
> the phone with microsoft support for over 24 hours (not just India  
> but onshore engineers) just trying to get Vista to network with XP  
> and they have no ideas yet. Vista is not compatible with a huge  
> number of standard programs, has serious driver issues, is unstable  
> in many regards and is so *!!*ing security (un)conscious and so  
> "smart" that you can barely get anything done other than answer  
> inane questions, changing options that do not stick and searching  
> for registry patches to make things vaguely useable. I bought Vista  
> pre-installed on a new machine and am not responsible for any of the  
> hardware/software issues and the machine barely works. Graphics  
> issues, mouse issues in addition to all the incompatibility problems.
>
> In spite of all that, my programs generally work but processing  
> large batches seems to exceed some explorer limit and they can crash.
>
> If the choice becomes (due to XP support being turned off) Vista or  
> Mac, I will take the months needed to learn to program directly on  
> the Mac. I have wasted so much of the last couple of months trying  
> to get Vista to work (and I am a rather advanced computer user who  
> can figure out almost anything or the person to ask for help or the  
> online resources to consult) and I have made almost no progress.
>
> Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:58:59 AM, you wrote:
> > I am definitely interested in something that doesn't crash as that
> > is why I bought a Mac in the first place! All I want to do in the
> > future is to be able to put a PianoSoft floppy disk into my computer
> > and put the songs on either a playlist (yamplayer) or convert them
> > the MIDI files (dkutil) so I can burn another copy for back-up or
> > turn them down to play more quietly on my DKV. MarkIV owners do not
> > have this problem as their machines store the music on a hard drive
> > and already have playlist capability.
> >
> > That being said, do I still need to install virus software on the
> > Windows VM partition even though that partition will never be
> > online? If Safari is running, can my windows vm partition still be
> > harmed even though it is not active? Do I need to install at least
> > Windows 98SE to be able to use a floppy disk drive?
> >
> > I will definitely check out the Fusion as I know there are minor
> > differences between it and Parallels. I can't begin to thank you
> > guys enough for helping on this one!
> >
> > Carol Beigel
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gary Connoley
> > To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Using Disklavier utilities on a Mac
>
> > I use vmware fusion for my macpro and have a number of virtual
> > machines such as win xp, homesever, win 2003 server etc for
> > different things. Within the vm you can set whether the USB devices
> > connected to the host are connected to the guest OS. I have used an
> > xp vm to run a home automation application with a USB to serial
> > adapter and two USB devices flawlessly. I just tested dkutil with  
> a USB floppy and it worked fine.
> > Fusion retails for 100bucks and there is a trial from the vmware  
> site.
> > Gary
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 22 Jun 2008, at 10:00, "david962548" <magic_midi@...>  
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Carol
>
> > Just don't throw out the old PC. I have a number of "old" PCs just
> > because the new one will not do what the old one did.
>
> > I have an old laptop because the new one does not have a RS232 com
> > port. An old PC win 98 because I have a number of programs that
> > don't like XP. I know you can get USB drives but they do not alwasy
> > work, my USB com port is com 40 but the software only goes upto com
> > 10.
>
> > Having played a little with Parallels for Mac, I found it to be, not
> > only very slow, but locked up and crashed all the time.
>
> > Good luck
> > Midi Magic
>
> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...>
> > wrote:
>
> >> My R&D time at the moment is being filled with playing Camp
> > Grandma. working, and setting up the new iMac, so I thought I would
> > throw this out to the list in the event someone else might try this
> > in a more timely fashion than myself.
>
> >> My Windows 98 computer developed a problem with the motherboard
> > and there does not seem to be a compatible replacement on the market
> > today. Bummer! It is just a matter of time before my Windows XP
> > computers suffer the same fate.
>
> >> True, the new version of Mac OS10.5 (Leopard) has an included
> > utility called Bootcamp that will let you install a Windows
> > operating system. However, it is sort of clunky because you need to
> > reboot each time you want to swith operating systems.
>
> >> I believe there is a better alternative called Parallels for Mac
> > Desktop. You can download a free 2-week trial or pay $79 to keep
> > it. This software allows one to run virtual operating systems from
> > the Mac Desktop without rebooting. They talk about Windows XP and
> > Windows Vista, but it will also run Windows 95 down through DOS6.2.
> > Lynux, and some other operating systems. You can install as many
> > virtual operating systems as you want. If you choose setting up a
> > virtual drive to less than 32G it will format it using the FAT32 -
> > which is compatible with those dkvutilities. You can also connect a
> > USB Floppy drive to copy or read Pianosoft disks.
>
> >> It is my thought that this virtual drive will run the Giebler
> > utilities and gnmidi programs. Remember to to also load some virus
> > protection software on your virtual drives if you use Windows!
>
> >> For those still running Windows XP, there is a free (?) program
> > called DOSBOX that will run older DOS utilities - probably the
> > Giebler. Most people use this software to run their favorite older
> > versions of games that are no longer available. I suspect it works
> > on Windows Vista as well.
>
> >> I must admit the new 24-inch iMac is the most elegant computer I
> > have ever owned. I will probably buy a Mac laptop as well next
> > year. By then the MarkIV Disklaviers will be able to record
> > audio. Eventually I will figure out the web software to update my
> > website and would like to include using Macs with Disklaviers.
>
> >> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!
>
> >> Carol Beigel
>
> > 28c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
> > text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:
> > underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; }
> > .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; }
> > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} -->
>
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date:  
> 6/21/2008 9:27 AM
> >
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Spencer_Lists Chase mailto:lists@...
> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> (707) 984-8356
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary Connoley

To:

Cc:

Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:09 AM

Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Using Disklavier utilities on a Mac

I use vmware fusion for my macpro and have a number of virtual machines such as win xp, homesever, win 2003 server etc for different things. Within the vm you can set whether the USB devices connected to the host are connected to the guest OS. I have used an xp vm to run a home automation application with a USB to serial adapter and two USB devices flawlessly. I just tested dkutil with a USB floppy and it worked fine.

Fusion retails for 100bucks and there is a trial from the vmware site.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Jun 2008, at 10:00, "david962548" <magic_midi@...> wrote:

Hi Carol

Just don't throw out the old PC. I have a number of "old" PCs just
because the new one will not do what the old one did.

I have an old laptop because the new one does not have a RS232 com
port. An old PC win 98 because I have a number of programs that
don't like XP. I know you can get USB drives but they do not alwasy
work, my USB com port is com 40 but the software only goes upto com
10.

Having played a little with Parallels for Mac, I found it to be, not
only very slow, but locked up and crashed all the time.

Good luck
Midi Magic

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" ..>
wrote:
>
> My R&D time at the moment is being filled with playing Camp
Grandma. working, and setting up the new iMac, so I thought I would
throw this out to the list in the event someone else might try this
in a more timely fashion than myself.
>
> My Windows 98 computer developed a problem with the motherboard
and there does not seem to be a compatible replacement on the market
today. Bummer! It is just a matter of time before my Windows XP
computers suffer the same fate.
>
>; True, the new version of Mac OS10.5 (Leopard) has an included
utility called Bootcamp that will let you install a Windows
operating system. However, it is sort of clunky because you need to
reboot each time you want to swith operating systems.
>
> I believe there is a better alternative called Parallels for Mac
Desktop. You can download a free 2-week trial or pay $79 to keep
it. This software allows one to run virtual operating systems from
the Mac Desktop without rebooting. They talk about Windows XP and
Windows Vista, but it will also run Windows 95 down through DOS6.2.
Lynux, and some other operating systems. You can install as many
virtual operating systems as you want. If you choose setting up a
virtual drive to less than 32G it will format it using the FAT32 -
which is compatible with those dkvutilities. You can also connect a
USB Floppy drive to copy or read Pianosoft disks.
>
> It is my thought that this virtual drive will run the Giebler
utilities and gnmidi programs. Remember to to also load some virus
protection software on your virtual drives if you use Windows!
>
> For those still running Windows XP, there is a free (?) program
called DOSBOX that will run older DOS utilities - probably the
Giebler. Most people use this software to run their favorite older
versions of games that are no longer available. I suspect it works
on Windows Vista as well.
>
> I must admit the new 24-inch iMac is the most elegant computer I
have ever owned. I will probably buy a Mac laptop as well next
year. By then the MarkIV Disklaviers will be able to record
audio. Eventually I will figure out the web software to update my
website and would like to include using Macs with Disklaviers.
>
> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!
>
> Carol Beigel
>

28c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration: underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; } .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; } blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} -->

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Spencer_Lists
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:22 PM
To: Carol Beigel
Subject: UMR address - Re[2]: [disklavier] Re: Using Disklavier
utilities on a Mac

 

Greetings Carol,

I have not checked what is available recently but there should be no
problem putting together a little machine to run 98. I have a few old
notebooks that are well made and will probably outlast me but you can
also build a dedicated machine from new old parts for almost nothing. I
had some favorite motherboards but there may be something better now.
You also used to be able to get "single board" computers for embedded
applications and they were reasonable and very robust. They generally
run an OS that is "obsolete" because they can be more reliable. No one
would ever put Vista in an embedded machine, for example. If you just
need a little machine to run some DOS programs you do not need to keep
anything current win 98 SE right off the disc is fine. You don't even
have to pay for it. If you want XP, you can now get OEM copies for about
$50 and you don't have to activate if you don't mind being reminded each
time you boot. If you want to explore this, you can contact me directly
for some secrets that I can not put in list mail.

Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:57:42 AM, you wrote:
> I have tried Fusion and have failed miserably several times to
> install a Windows 98 operating system. Sometimes the computer sees
> the disk in the CD super drive and sometimes it does not. I am
> trying to install a virtual machine on an iMac running Leopard. The
> error is probably with me as sometimes things get going well, then
> the computer cannot find the install disk. I am using the CD but as
> I recall, these operating systems also came with floppy disks that
> installed a generic CDrom driver on a new PC. Would a drive image
> of the disk be better and what should be on it?
> 
> I was able to install a program called Crossover just fine (for
> using Photoshop and Frontpage Graphics Creator) without the need for
> creating a virtual machine. But none of the DKVutilites will install.
> 
> I will probably try Parallels next and see if I have better luck. 
> Seems to me I would have these same problems using Boot Camp and
partitioning the drive. No?
> 
> I also have thoughts that this may be a wasted effort. My thinking
> was that Windows 98 hardware would break before Disklavier MKII sand
> older bit the dust. Since the the new Mark IV DKVs use a Linux
> operating system and see those floppy disk ESEQ files just fine, I
> am wondering that there must be software already available. Since
> Linux is open source, how hard could this be to figure it out?
> 
> The worst thing about buying a new computer is that they seldom do
> the things you are accustomed to doing at the expense of doing
> greater and more glorious things faster. Software gets glitzier but
> leaves out stuff I used in the older versions that is not included
> in the newer versions! Go figure!
> 
> Perhaps these virtual machine software programs are the answer. 
> All I really want to do is run the dkvutilities from a USB floppy
> disk on the Mac! Anyone with helpful advice is welcome to reply to
> me privately is the list thinks this is too off topic. Send private
> email to my Mac computer using: carol@...
<mailto:carol%40moonbeachmusic.com> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Gary Connoley 
> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com>
> 
> Cc: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com <mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com>
> 
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 5:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Using Disklavier utilities on a Mac

> I use vmware fusion for my macpro and have a number of virtual
> machines such as win xp, homesever, win 2003 server etc for
> different things. Within the vm you can set whether the USB devices
> connected to the host are connected to the guest OS. I have used an
> xp vm to run a home automation application with a USB to serial
> adapter and two USB devices flawlessly. I just tested dkutil with a
USB floppy and it worked fine.
> Fusion retails for 100bucks and there is a trial from the vmware site.
> Gary

> Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Jun 2008, at 10:00, "david962548" <magic_midi@...
<mailto:magic_midi%40hotmail.com> > wrote:

> Hi Carol

> Just don't throw out the old PC. I have a number of "old" PCs just 
> because the new one will not do what the old one did. 

> I have an old laptop because the new one does not have a RS232 com 
> port. An old PC win 98 because I have a number of programs that 
> don't like XP. I know you can get USB drives but they do not alwasy 
> work, my USB com port is com 40 but the software only goes upto com 
> 10.

> Having played a little with Parallels for Mac, I found it to be, not 
> only very slow, but locked up and crashed all the time.

> Good luck
> Midi Magic

> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com> , "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> 
> wrote:

>> My R&D time at the moment is being filled with playing Camp 
> Grandma. working, and setting up the new iMac, so I thought I would 
> throw this out to the list in the event someone else might try this 
> in a more timely fashion than myself.

>> My Windows 98 computer developed a problem with the motherboard 
> and there does not seem to be a compatible replacement on the market 
> today. Bummer! It is just a matter of time before my Windows XP 
> computers suffer the same fate.

>> True, the new version of Mac OS10.5 (Leopard) has an included 
> utility called Bootcamp that will let you install a Windows 
> operating system. However, it is sort of clunky because you need to 
> reboot each time you want to swith operating systems.

>> I believe there is a better alternative called Parallels for Mac 
> Desktop. You can download a free 2-week trial or pay $79 to keep 
> it. This software allows one to run virtual operating systems from 
> the Mac Desktop without rebooting. They talk about Windows XP and 
> Windows Vista, but it will also run Windows 95 down through DOS6.2. 
> Lynux, and some other operating systems. You can install as many 
> virtual operating systems as you want. If you choose setting up a 
> virtual drive to less than 32G it will format it using the FAT32 - 
> which is compatible with those dkvutilities. You can also connect a 
> USB Floppy drive to copy or read Pianosoft disks.

>> It is my thought that this virtual drive will run the Giebler 
> utilities and gnmidi programs. Remember to to also load some virus 
> protection software on your virtual drives if you use Windows!

>> For those still running Windows XP, there is a free (?) program 
> called DOSBOX that will run older DOS utilities - probably the 
> Giebler. Most people use this software to run their favorite older 
> versions of games that are no longer available. I suspect it works 
> on Windows Vista as well.

>> I must admit the new 24-inch iMac is the most elegant computer I 
> have ever owned. I will probably buy a Mac laptop as well next 
> year. By then the MarkIV Disklaviers will be able to record 
> audio. Eventually I will figure out the web software to update my 
> website and would like to include using Macs with Disklaviers.

>> Let me know if anyone gets these things to work!

>> Carol Beigel

> 28c2a; font-size: 100%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
> text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:
> underline; } #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin: 0; } o{font-size: 0; }
> .MsoNormal{ margin: 0 0 0 0; } #ygrp-text tt{ font-size: 120%; }
> blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4} --> 

> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date:
6/21/2008 9:27 AM
> 

-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase mailto:lists@...
<mailto:lists%40spencerserolls.com> 
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Lists@spencerserolls(dot)com
http://www(dot)spencerserolls.com 
replace (dot) with a .
(707) 984-8356