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afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-15 by robotunes

hi...

any MnM owner in chicago/suburbs care to give me a demo and let me 
have a play for 30 mins.? that's the only way i'll know whether i want 
to gamble $1300 on this buggy bucket of magic. (i could drive to 
milwaukee to test one at novamusik, but i'd rather stay closer to 
home).

MnM looks like it perfectly matches the way i make tracks, but all the 
horror stories about crashes, lost work, bad support, MnMs spending 
months in the shop and wonky os updates have creeped me out. i'm now 
leaning toward my second choice, the v-synth kbd, instead.

i'd have a MnM for sure if it were only reliable....

Re: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-16 by Scott Kellogg

Relax -- 99% of Monomachine users are happy and rockin' it.  It's a
common occurrence on forums to only hear the complaining.  I'm sure
someone in Chicago will give you a demo.  I'm happy to give you one,
but I live in Bloomington, which is about 4.5 hours south of you.

/Scott

On 12/15/06, robotunes <robotunes@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> hi...
>
>  any MnM owner in chicago/suburbs care to give me a demo and let me
>  have a play for 30 mins.? that's the only way i'll know whether i want
>  to gamble $1300 on this buggy bucket of magic. (i could drive to
>  milwaukee to test one at novamusik, but i'd rather stay closer to
>  home).
>
>  MnM looks like it perfectly matches the way i make tracks, but all the
>  horror stories about crashes, lost work, bad support, MnMs spending
>  months in the shop and wonky os updates have creeped me out. i'm now
>  leaning toward my second choice, the v-synth kbd, instead.
>
>  i'd have a MnM for sure if it were only reliable....
>
>  


-- 
Scott Kellogg

Re: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-16 by roby@sweet-trip.net

yeah, i think the only weird thing i experience once ina while are starnge
transposition of sequences when they are not supposed to be transposed...
but it doesn't happen all the time.  the MM (or my MM) is super solid
otherwise.



> Relax -- 99% of Monomachine users are happy and rockin' it.  It's a
> common occurrence on forums to only hear the complaining.  I'm sure
> someone in Chicago will give you a demo.  I'm happy to give you one,
> but I live in Bloomington, which is about 4.5 hours south of you.
>
> /Scott
>
> On 12/15/06, robotunes <robotunes@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hi...
>>
>>  any MnM owner in chicago/suburbs care to give me a demo and let me
>>  have a play for 30 mins.? that's the only way i'll know whether i want
>>  to gamble $1300 on this buggy bucket of magic. (i could drive to
>>  milwaukee to test one at novamusik, but i'd rather stay closer to
>>  home).
>>
>>  MnM looks like it perfectly matches the way i make tracks, but all the
>>  horror stories about crashes, lost work, bad support, MnMs spending
>>  months in the shop and wonky os updates have creeped me out. i'm now
>>  leaning toward my second choice, the v-synth kbd, instead.
>>
>>  i'd have a MnM for sure if it were only reliable....
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott Kellogg
>


/roby
//www.sweet-trip.net

Re: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-16 by Niall Munnelly

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:53:33PM -0000, robotunes wrote:
> 
> MnM looks like it perfectly matches the way i make tracks, but all the 
> horror stories about crashes, lost work, bad support, MnMs spending 
> months in the shop and wonky os updates have creeped me out. i'm now 
> leaning toward my second choice, the v-synth kbd, instead.
> 
> i'd have a MnM for sure if it were only reliable....

It is reliable.  You'll always hear about problems a few
people encounter, and almost never hear about stable,
working setups.  we're wired to complain more than praise, I
guess.


I live in Chicago, and I'll happily let you spend an afternoon with the SFX6.


-- 
Yours,
Niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
Aleph-Null.                             A Simple Insinuation Around Silence.
http://aleph-null.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

RE: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-16 by Tony Scharf

The MnM has not been buggy in a while
at least not at all in my experience
with it. 

Occassionaly, any piece of gear will have issues.  One important thing to
also look at is the manufacturers track record for *addressing* those
issues.  Elektron has developed a track record for fixing the problems that
come up, where as I really wouldn’t count on roland to even care...

I live in Chicago, and would be willing to bring it out for a demo session.

Tony

________________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elektron-users@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of robotunes
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 5:54 PM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

hi...

any MnM owner in chicago/suburbs care to give me a demo and let me 
have a play for 30 mins.? that's the only way i'll know whether i want 
to gamble $1300 on this buggy bucket of magic. (i could drive to 
milwaukee to test one at novamusik, but i'd rather stay closer to 
home).

MnM looks like it perfectly matches the way i make tracks, but all the 
horror stories about crashes, lost work, bad support, MnMs spending 
months in the shop and wonky os updates have creeped me out. i'm now 
leaning toward my second choice, the v-synth kbd, instead.

i'd have a MnM for sure if it were only reliable....

Re: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-16 by rui da silva

what sort of problems would roland give you? i have own several  
roland machines for more than 15 years and i still have to see one go  
wrong... saying that elektron really has a good track record in  
resolving issues... but i still have to see what issues roland  
actually has....

r

On 16 Dec 2006, at 17:45, Tony Scharf wrote:

> I really wouldn�t count on roland to even care...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [elektron] afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-17 by Niall Munnelly

On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 09:42:08PM +0000, rui da silva wrote:
> what sort of problems would roland give you? i have own several  
> roland machines for more than 15 years and i still have to see one go  
> wrong... saying that elektron really has a good track record in  
> resolving issues... but i still have to see what issues roland  
> actually has....

This doesn't count as a tech issue, but Roland's tech support
was essentially a call center when I contacted them.  When I
asked if there was a list for possible bugs or feature
requests, I was flatly told that those weren't handled by
anyone in Roland US, and that there was no way to contact
instrument developers in Japan.

That sort of thing happens when the company is big and
focused on shifting units.  Buying a new V-Synth is like
buying a 1600 dollar cell phone, rather than an instrument.


-- 
Yours,
Niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
Aleph-Null.                             A Simple Insinuation Around Silence.
http://aleph-null.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-17 by allerian

Food for thought:  When you read internet forums, you're going to find 
the extremes, since people who are merely "satisfied" generally don't 
post.  I've had three Monomachines, and two Machinedrums so far and 
only one problem which was joystick damage from shipping.  I play these 
instruments literally every single day and I have zero issues.

-Robert

Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-18 by robotunes

big thanks to all who replied, and a special thanks to niall and tony, 
who generously offered to let me demo their synths.

after spending time with niall and his sfx-6 -- and after reading all 
your replies -- i think the MnM is not such a gamble after all. still, 
i'll be making lots of sysex dumps, just in case ;-D

for the record, i'm going with the sfx-60 (with a kaoss pad as 
joystick). combind with the "normal" sounds of the sk88 pro and the 
sample mangling of the esx-1, i will extemporaneously create and 
improvise over mid-tempo grooves and glitch-hop. this years-long dream 
will be fulfilled with major helpf from the complex-but-not-
complicated MnM.

so thanks for all your support, and here are a few questions:

1) what is the polyphony count for the midi sequencer? it's not in the 
manual or on elektron.se. i've emailed elektron and posted the 
question on their users forum, but if someone here knows the answer, 
that would help.

2) i think i know the answer to this, but can the envelopes of the FM 
machines do inverse polarity, or will i have to burn an lfo to make 
modulators crescendo?

3) do any sfx-60 owners wish they'd bought an sfx-6 instead? why or 
why not?

4) does using A LOT of parameter locks (i'll probably hit the max of 
62 on most of my patterns) throw off the timing of the sequencer or 
cause latency with the machines? any affect on the midi sequencer 
timing?

5) is there a list of the listed frequencies used by the fm machines? 
i'd like to make sure the MnM can simulate my fave dx200 patches 
before i sell it.

thanks again!


 

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "allerian" <rburns@...> wrote:
>
> Food for thought:  When you read internet forums, you're going to 
find 
> the extremes, since people who are merely "satisfied" generally 
don't 
> post.  I've had three Monomachines, and two Machinedrums so far and 
> only one problem which was joystick damage from shipping.  I play 
these 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> instruments literally every single day and I have zero issues.
> 
> -Robert
>

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-18 by rui da silva

what price would you be looking at?


rui



On 18 Dec 2006, at 19:43, robotunes wrote:

> dx200 patches
> before i sell it.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by Gerald Stevens

Keep the DX-200.  Elektron decided to re-invent FM synthesis to make it
"easier", and in doing so mucked with Yamaha's conventional operator
structures.  I was hoping to reproduce cheesy DX-7 goodness with the MnM,
but found that I couldn't easily translate its patches.  I couldn't even
translate patches from the simpler 4 operator DX-11...  The MnM's FM
synthesis is fun, but cannot easily be used (IMNSHO) to make classic FM
electric pianos, strings, brass, woodwinds, etc.  If I'm wrong, someone
please point me at an mp3 sample or preset that I have missed!

I dig my DX-200... especially the morph knob.  Great fun when sequenced from
the MnM.  Well worth the $100 I paid.

-gerald


5) is there a list of the listed frequencies used by the fm machines?
i'd like to make sure the MnM can simulate my fave dx200 patches
before i sell it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by Niall Munnelly

On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 07:43:45PM -0000, robotunes wrote:
> 
> joystick). combind with the "normal" sounds of the sk88 pro and the 
> sample mangling of the esx-1, i will extemporaneously create and 
> improvise over mid-tempo grooves and glitch-hop. this years-long dream 
> will be fulfilled with major helpf from the complex-but-not-
> complicated MnM.

Yup.  Make room for the MDUW, then.  I'm just sayin'.

> 1) what is the polyphony count for the midi sequencer? it's not in the 
> manual or on elektron.se. i've emailed elektron and posted the 
> question on their users forum, but if someone here knows the answer, 
> that would help.

Texmex answered your question on the web forum - cheers,
Texmex.

> 4) does using A LOT of parameter locks (i'll probably hit the max of 
> 62 on most of my patterns) throw off the timing of the sequencer or 
> cause latency with the machines? any affect on the midi sequencer 
> timing?

I did a standard deviation-based test of the Elektron clocks
some time ago that, while not as accurate as recording the
clock pulses as audio, was more than adequate to compare an
empty pattern with a _very_ busy one and their respective
clock output - there was no difference.  If parameter locks
were transmitted as CCs, then there might be a problem, but
I doubt it - further tests on the MIDI machines seem to
indicate that Elektron kit is programmed to give clock
priority over note events, which is as it should be.



-- 
Yours,
Niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
Aleph-Null.                             A Simple Insinuation Around Silence.
http://aleph-null.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by Niall Munnelly

On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 05:55:26PM -0800, Gerald Stevens wrote:
> Keep the DX-200.

I'm glad you said this, though I considered buying it from him.

Hmf.

-- 
Yours,
Niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
Aleph-Null.                             A Simple Insinuation Around Silence.
http://aleph-null.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by rui da silva

so did i :)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 19 Dec 2006, at 2:02, Niall Munnelly wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 05:55:26PM -0800, Gerald Stevens wrote:
>> Keep the DX-200.
>
> I'm glad you said this, though I considered buying it from him.
>
> Hmf.
>
> --  
> Yours,
> Niall.
> .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .               
>    .
> Aleph-Null.                             A Simple Insinuation Around  
> Silence.
> http://aleph-null.net
> .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by robotunes

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Niall Munnelly <aleph@...> 
wrote:
>
> Yup.  Make room for the MDUW, then.  I'm just sayin'.

thinking about it. for now, esx wins with sampling + resampling. it 
doesn't improvise nearly as well as the MDUW, tho, so i may wind up 
with both some day.
 
> I did a standard deviation-based test ...

thanks for the analysis-based info. that, plus the assertion made 
elsewhere that the midi sequencer can handle up to 100 notes per step 
(OMG i just wet myself!!!!), means the MnM was made for me!

like everybody here, i've bought a lot of gear in my life, but 
nothing, NOTHING has made me more excited than getting a MnM (well, 
except my wife surprising me with a 909 on our honeymoon...)

[elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by robotunes

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, rui da silva <ruipacheco@...> 
wrote:
>
> what price would you be looking at?
> 

sorry. won't be selling the dx200 after all.

regards...

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by rui da silva

lol

not surprised... it is a great machine... one should never sell his  
machines....

rui
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 19 Dec 2006, at 3:26, robotunes wrote:

> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, rui da silva <ruipacheco@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> what price would you be looking at?
>>
>
> sorry. won't be selling the dx200 after all.
>
> regards...
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by roby@sweet-trip.net

> 2) i think i know the answer to this, but can the envelopes of the FM
> machines do inverse polarity, or will i have to burn an lfo to make
> modulators crescendo?

yeah, you will have to burn an lfo like you said.  sad, eh?

> 3) do any sfx-60 owners wish they'd bought an sfx-6 instead? why or
> why not?

i wish i did, just for looks, but i'm glad i got the sfx60 because it's
way more portable, and looks good right next to the Machinedrum, lol. 
plus i don't really have space in my room for the sfx6

> 4) does using A LOT of parameter locks (i'll probably hit the max of
> 62 on most of my patterns) throw off the timing of the sequencer or
> cause latency with the machines? any affect on the midi sequencer
> timing?

i've never had any problems, and i abuse parameter locks..

> 5) is there a list of the listed frequencies used by the fm machines?
> i'd like to make sure the MnM can simulate my fave dx200 patches
> before i sell it.

what people are saying about the MnM's Fm is true.  you may want to check
out the wavetable machines thought, but you will not be selling your DX
anytime soon...


/roby
//www.sweet-trip.net

[elektron] Re: afraid: monomachine vs. vsynth

2006-12-19 by robotunes

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "robotunes" <robotunes@...> 
wrote:
>
> esx wins with sampling + resampling.

i stand corrected. just read the MDUW manual for the first time. 
WOW!!! i didn't know it samples and resamples IN SYNC!!!! =8-O

i'm shocked. i'm amazed. my flabber has been gasted...

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