Elektron Musical Instruments

I was wondering if I could pay for a Monomachine with 'magic' money ?

has anyone tried this with success ?

This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best drum
machine in the world. For the price you would expect
timing would be key for integration with DAW and other
hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a $700
MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a $1600
dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or I
may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
integrate well with this rest of my enviornment not
add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the sequencer
is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just curious
those that have the turbomidi are you having these
timing issues?

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its the *internal* timing thats whack, not the midi. The midi is solid
& consistant. its the sounds triggered inside the machine that are
sloppy or magic, depends on your working methods I suppose.

so, you're spitting midi thats 'rigid/stiff/sterile' and the internal
sounds have 'magic' timing.....great craic altogether.

I'd live with the 'magical' internal timing if the midi matched it.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris <jsunbud@...> wrote:

>
> This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best drum
> machine in the world. For the price you would expect
> timing would be key for integration with DAW and other
> hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a $700
> MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a $1600
> dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or I
> may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
> integrate well with this rest of my enviornment not
> add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
> i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the sequencer
> is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just curious
> those that have the turbomidi are you having these
> timing issues?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

i havent done many measurements but i got the idea
that the timing gets more accurat when syncing the MD
with a clean external clock with turbomidi... more
accurat than running it as master !!!
What is pretty weard...so maybe i had an accidently
very stable measurement recording...
I might confirm that at a later point...

However...clocksync gets improoved with turbomidi in
any case...
Just the statement that  it is even better than
running the md alone is questionable...

--- J D Budris <jsunbud@...> schrieb:

> This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best
> drum
> machine in the world. For the price you would expect
> timing would be key for integration with DAW and
> other
> hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a
> $700
> MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a
> $1600
> dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or I
> may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
> integrate well with this rest of my enviornment not
> add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
> i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the sequencer
> is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just
> curious
> those that have the turbomidi are you having these
> timing issues?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 



      __________________________________  Yahoo! Clever: Sie haben Fragen? Yahoo! Nutzer antworten Ihnen. www.yahoo.de/clever

On 5/3/07, j3l1yt0t5 <j3l1yt0t5@...> wrote:
> its the *internal* timing thats whack, not the midi.

Now, i've ignored this whole timing debate so far because
a) i'm _way_ too busy with work to keep up to date
b) it seemed to get vitriolic quite quickly

but i'm getting interested now and i feel like i'm missing out...
there's probably some detailed exploration of the issues in the forum
or in one of the threads here but i've really not got time to sift
through 40something pages so (and i'm slightly reticent in asking
in-case I open up a whole new can of worms but) maybe someone would be
kind enough to summarise by answering the following question...

which steps of the md sequencer have this supposedly "magic" offset applied?

my studios in pieces right now but when all these current projects are
finished (if ever) i'll look forward to re-assembling it all and
testing it ;).

regards
ed

Here's another interesting read

http://www.notable.com/index.php?page=about


It documents the use of the Russian Dragon (rushing-dragging, geddit?)
a unit which measures timing inconsitencies.

It has quite a good comparision of a number of drum machines,
including the 808 which has -/+ 0.1ms with a single instrument,
however they concluded that as the patterns got busier the tempo
slowed down. The 909 had +/- 5ms and was one of the worst.

But its a good read if you are interested and some of the findings
were surprising.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "j3l1yt0t5" <j3l1yt0t5@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if I could pay for a Monomachine with 'magic' money ?
> 
> has anyone tried this with success ?
>


Drugs? are you referring to drugs? :P hehe J/K

I think you should sell your MD because it can't keep absolute
"autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time signature only the
severely autistic care about. 

I know I would be super irritated if only I had the time to sit down
and analyse the timing errors between quarter note hi-hats. For hours.
Personally, I also think my music would be totally better if only my
machinedrum had the consistency of an atomic clock.


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris <jsunbud@...> wrote:

>
> This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best drum
> machine in the world. For the price you would expect
> timing would be key for integration with DAW and other
> hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a $700
> MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a $1600
> dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or I
> may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
> integrate well with this rest of my enviornment not
> add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
> i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the sequencer
> is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just curious
> those that have the turbomidi are you having these
> timing issues?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

> I know I would be super irritated if only I had the time to sit down
> and analyse the timing errors between quarter note hi-hats. For hours.

Enjoy, you only need 15 secondes to figure that in Ableton Live. If you don't,
you have a serious earing problem.

no reason to be zynic about it..
the MD behaves rather strange in the editor and that
sucks..
it more like editing a real drummer than editing a
drummachine...
#
some people preffer real drummers...so a machine with
some inbuild human factor..
Some like, some dont..
In the end of the day the MD is not the worst on the
market...
its not the best either...
rather expensiv new..

for the sexond hand price defenetly worth the money..
I rather would be a second hand MD than a brand new
ESX...

--- bainbrge <matthew.bainbridge@...> schrieb:

> I think you should sell your MD because it can't
> keep absolute
> "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time
> signature only the
> severely autistic care about. 
> 
> I know I would be super irritated if only I had the
> time to sit down
> and analyse the timing errors between quarter note
> hi-hats. For hours.
> Personally, I also think my music would be totally
> better if only my
> machinedrum had the consistency of an atomic clock.
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris
> <jsunbud@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> > bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best
> drum
> > machine in the world. For the price you would
> expect
> > timing would be key for integration with DAW and
> other
> > hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a
> $700
> > MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a
> $1600
> > dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or
> I
> > may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
> > integrate well with this rest of my enviornment
> not
> > add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
> > i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the
> sequencer
> > is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just
> curious
> > those that have the turbomidi are you having these
> > timing issues?
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> 
> 
> 



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i think you guys should all spend more time doing beats and less time  
on the email...



On 4 May 2007, at 17:13, bainbrge wrote:

> I think you should sell your MD because it can't keep absolute
> "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time signature only the
> severely autistic care about.
>
> I know I would be super irritated if only I had the time to sit down
> and analyse the timing errors between quarter note hi-hats. For hours.
> Personally, I also think my music would be totally better if only my
> machinedrum had the consistency of an atomic clock.
>
>
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris <jsunbud@...> wrote:
>>
>> This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
>> bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best drum
>> machine in the world. For the price you would expect
>> timing would be key for integration with DAW and other
>> hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a $700
>> MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a $1600
>> dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or I
>> may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
>> integrate well with this rest of my enviornment not
>> add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
>> i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the sequencer
>> is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just curious
>> those that have the turbomidi are you having these
>> timing issues?
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think your sarcasm is pathetic, I was making an
assumption from what several others have found to be a
 problem, I love the sound it makes and I personally
haven't noticed some of these isssues but  I have not
incorporated it with my other equipment or a DAW. At
least I would get a less negative answer from the
folks at the mpc forum. If someone wants an example of
good support and how o.s.'s should be handled take a
look at what JJ has done for the mpc 1000 and
continues to improve on a machine that was pretty
basic at one point for a mere $30.
--- bainbrge <matthew.bainbridge@...> wrote:

> I think you should sell your MD because it can't
> keep absolute
> "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time
> signature only the
> severely autistic care about. 
> 
> I know I would be super irritated if only I had the
> time to sit down
> and analyse the timing errors between quarter note
> hi-hats. For hours.
> Personally, I also think my music would be totally
> better if only my
> machinedrum had the consistency of an atomic clock.
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris
> <jsunbud@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> > bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best
> drum
> > machine in the world. For the price you would
> expect
> > timing would be key for integration with DAW and
> other
> > hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a
> $700
> > MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a
> $1600
> > dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved or
> I
> > may be selling mine. I wanted something that would
> > integrate well with this rest of my enviornment
> not
> > add more work to it. I love alot about the machine
> > i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the
> sequencer
> > is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just
> curious
> > those that have the turbomidi are you having these
> > timing issues?
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> 
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
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Agreed!
--- rui da silva <ruipacheco@...> wrote:

> i think you guys should all spend more time doing
> beats and less time  
> on the email...
> 
> 
> 
> On 4 May 2007, at 17:13, bainbrge wrote:
> 
> > I think you should sell your MD because it can't
> keep absolute
> > "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time
> signature only the
> > severely autistic care about.
> >
> > I know I would be super irritated if only I had
> the time to sit down
> > and analyse the timing errors between quarter note
> hi-hats. For hours.
> > Personally, I also think my music would be totally
> better if only my
> > machinedrum had the consistency of an atomic
> clock.
> >
> >
> > --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, J D Budris
> <jsunbud@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is becoming a huge ordeal. I thought when I
> >> bought the Machinedrum UW I was getting the "best
> drum
> >> machine in the world. For the price you would
> expect
> >> timing would be key for integration with DAW and
> other
> >> hardware. You all mean to tell me the timing on a
> $700
> >> MPC 1000 and the like have better timing than a
> $1600
> >> dollar machine? I would hope this gets resolved
> or I
> >> may be selling mine. I wanted something that
> would
> >> integrate well with this rest of my enviornment
> not
> >> add more work to it. I love alot about the
> machine
> >> i.e. (sound engine, effects, etc.) But the
> sequencer
> >> is an integral part of a a beat machine. Just
> curious
> >> those that have the turbomidi are you having
> these
> >> timing issues?
> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
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I'm posting this copied across from the Elektron-Users Forum not to
double up but to clarify my position once and for all on the SPS-1
Timing Debate. Two main points cause me greatest concern. The first is
the lack of understanding by some of the real issue at hand and
secondly, that I am seeking to profit in some way by highlighting
limitations in the SPS-1 that make the purchase of my own Sync-Shift a
more attractive proposition which you will see is not the case.

Quote from Dreg/-

David read this please,

These are the tools I've/we've got and I/we use em, pretty simple? I
won't use the old saying about blaming but I'll get close

This thread should be closed. Its only going in circles. /unquote.

Response:

I read every post and respond where possible Dreg. The very reason
these are the tools we have right now is precisely why the thread is
important and possibly why the topic has had nearly 5000 views in just
over a single month.

It may also be why the moderators are still leaving it open. I hope so.

The importance of timing stability is core to what we all do. If the
thread gives you nightmares or causes you distress it is much simpler
if you do not read it rather than seeking to gag healthy debate. The
issue will still generate interest and creative discussion regardless
and it may benefit you someday if you allow it space.

I feel fairly confident now nothing can be done to improve the
SPS-1/UW in its current form, however, I am still a big Elektron
supporter and I am certain the interest and topics raised will be of
interest to them in the future.

In the end I am still a potential customer for future products and
that will always be of importance to any manufacturer in any business.

It is not going in circles either - many of the hysterical outbursts
by people who took personally my views as an attack on Elektron,
themselves, their music and creativity in general have either calmed
down enough to see rationally, grasped the concept finally or dropped
off altogether because they have nothing constructive to contribute.

On the other hand there have been many posts and I have had many
private messages from individuals who feel just as strongly as I do
and agree that if we remain silent on these issues then we keep
getting more of the same and our tools don't improve.

I'm not blaming my tools for creative frustration - I am not
frustrated at all. I understand well that accepting limitation can be
a good thing sometimes.

My motivation for this thread is not blame or axe-grinding for
something impossible or unnecessary.

I have tools already from years gone by that honor the concept that a
stable tempo/event clock was/is the foundation of sequencer design.

The importance of that concept has never changed but our equipment
designers have let it slip down the priority order.

Many people feel the same as I do about this.

I'm not saying I can't make music with what we have.

What I am saying is that precisely the attitude of 'just live with
what you have and stop moaning' over the last 20 years in the area of
electronic music production has directly contributed to the overall
slide in focus - most certainly in the area of clock/event/tempo
stability.

Without debate no-one learns anything.

Without pressure, nothing changes.

In 1984 - dedicated controls for adding jitter to precision click
tracks, dedicated I/O on all hardware for synchronisation and
sub-millisecond drum/trigger alignment were considered an essential
and expected part of making good records.

Why is it in 2007 we are happy to accept that 2.2 millisecond random
clock/event/step slop in 'The World's Best Beat Box' is 'feel' and
should in some strange way be seen as a feature?

Because over time we forget.

We forget what good timing in electronic music actually sounds like.
We are so used to hearing software and hardware doing impressions of
Linns and TR-808s that we start to believe the new stuff is just like
the old stuff and any subjective difference is just nostalgia for the
past.

Bullshit.

Yes of course sound quality has a role to play in this too and the
electronic instrument industry has developed and nurtured ever
increasing sample frequency and bit rates in its quest to make digital
a convincing clone of analogue.

However, almost no effort has been made over that same period to
ensure that our machines that play these sounds back to us do so with
the same precision and consistency as we used to take for granted in
the past.

Due to very clever marketing mostly rather than an understanding of
the processes involved most consumers these days expect their
DAW/Sound Card to at least record and play back at 96 kHz.

In my line of work many individuals with perfectly good ears will
quietly admit to not hearing much difference between 48 kHz and 96 kHz
in most listening environments and yet they all would have no problem
throwing that 48 kHz sound card in the bin and insist they must always
record at 96 kHz.

Think of the serious time, engineering, reasearch, money and
investment globally in developing precision Word Clock Generators with
ever lower jitter figures to give digital audio mixes increased
clarity and depth.

Would anyone with a brain walk into the Apogee or Prism head offices
and tell them all to 'just be happy with what you have and make some
music guys'.

Why is that same level of mostly blind, often peer-pressure driven
commitment to higher sonic fidelity not seen when discussing timing
stability in sequencing hardware and software when it is at least
equal in significance when making music?

Baseline sequencer tight timing is worth striving for because it makes
a huge difference to what we do and unless we, as the equipment
consumers, make a noise about it then it just slips off the radar even
further.

If we were to follow your advice and just be happy 'with the tools we
have now' - in 5 years time, who knows, maybe 8 milliseconds of random
clock/tempo/step slop will be considered the perfect human groove.

I'd rather reverse that trend if we possibly can. /Unquote.

Quote from Thunder:-

By the way Innerclock, has this thread helped you sell more of your
crappy overpriced syncshifts? I hope so, quite the marketing plan
you've got there. - /unquote.

Response:

As a matter of fact no Thunder - if you understood the SPS-1 random
step error concept properly you would realise that no amount of
Sync-Shift can fix tempo/step jitter in any hardware device or
sequencing software.

All the Sync-Shift does is offset the sync signal it receives. If you
send it sloppy clock it outputs sloppy clock - simple as that.

If the Sync-Shift fixed the problem as you seem to suggest then (a) I
would be using it between my MPC-3K and the SPS-1, (b) I would be
advertising the fact and selling bucket loads which I am not and (c) I
would not have wasted my time starting this thread because I would
have my own home grown solution.

So, let's make this perfectly clear for everybody - the notion of me
using this forum as a marketing strategy is way off target.

The people who have Sync-Shifts (Mk1 or Mk II) didn't seem to think
they were overpriced and no one has said they were crappy:-

http://www.innerclocksystems.com/index.asp?action=page&name=17

As I said before - I can hear the MD drifting against other things I
own way before I open an editor. If you can't and don't care then stay
off the thread and let others work it out.

Regards - David.

hi david,

I have been following this topic with a great deal of interest.

you are correct in your assertions -  I have to agree completely with  
what you are saying.

i appreciate the time you have taken to analyze and record the timing  
anomalies of the MD.

I think there is a degree of 'the ' emperors new clothes ' about this  
insofar as there seem

to be some that will deliberately cast aside the notion that there  
are timing drifts in the machine

and consider it to be ' pedantic ' to say otherwise. I think you  
should be congratulated for raising

this point because it is important and without the feedback of its  
users , products cannot evolve

and develop to their full potential.

elekron users  are engaging in  an open and intelligent debate about  
these issues and i

think it can  only be a good thing for elektron also to consider the  
feedback and rise to the

challenges that are presented to them.  the best drum machines   
should surely have the most

accuracy in their timing as well as the best interface, best  
operating system , best sound etc.


marc

www.psience.co.uk


' an excuse is only an excuse'

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "bainbrge"
<matthew.bainbridge@...> wrote:
>
> I think you should sell your MD because it can't keep absolute
> "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time signature only the
> severely autistic care about. 
> 

what a gentleman... and what a brilliant example of humanity... really...

Thanks Marc and much respect back at you in spades both for the
support and for your own obvious interest and commitment to getting
the funk back in all our toys.

regards - David

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, marc s davidson <psi@...> wrote:

>
> hi david,
> 
> I have been following this topic with a great deal of interest.
> 
> you are correct in your assertions -  I have to agree completely with  
> what you are saying.
> 
> i appreciate the time you have taken to analyze and record the timing  
> anomalies of the MD.
> 
> I think there is a degree of 'the ' emperors new clothes ' about this  
> insofar as there seem
> 
> to be some that will deliberately cast aside the notion that there  
> are timing drifts in the machine
> 
> and consider it to be ' pedantic ' to say otherwise. I think you  
> should be congratulated for raising
> 
> this point because it is important and without the feedback of its  
> users , products cannot evolve
> 
> and develop to their full potential.
> 
> elekron users  are engaging in  an open and intelligent debate about  
> these issues and i
> 
> think it can  only be a good thing for elektron also to consider the  
> feedback and rise to the
> 
> challenges that are presented to them.  the best drum machines   
> should surely have the most
> 
> accuracy in their timing as well as the best interface, best  
> operating system , best sound etc.
> 
> 
> marc
> 
> www.psience.co.uk
> 
> 
> ' an excuse is only an excuse'
>

(edited from the forum)

Another thing to consider, mostly directed to who keeps repeating
"stop complaining and make some music".

The MD - as every other Elektron product - is definitely a top-end,
professional product (even just for the price of it!).

So why shouldn't it deserve a professional and constructive attitude
coming from its users?

Most of us are not here to merely criticize the MD and spread bad
reputation across the web. 

We spend our time here because we'd like to understand where the issue
(that many of us feel as an important point) is and hopefully help
Elektron improve the situation. 

On any hi-end, pro gear forum/list nobody will sidetrack the technical
discussion about how a A/D-D/A converter, a boutique preamp or a
summing box perform saying "shut the f**k up and go make some music". 

Why shouldn't be the same thing here, regarding the MD?

The SPS-1 is marketed as a high end percussion synthesizer and rhythm
sequencer. 

In my own experience the synthesis part is simply brilliant: digitally
cold and sharp as a razor blade (I definitely didn't buy my MD to
emulate those analog TR boxes) but so incredibly versatile and inspiring.

Like many others I found that the sequencing part of the MD could be
improved, mostly regarding its timing aspect. 

So please tell me, where's the "heresy"?

there is no drift...
there is unprecission that got taylored in a way that
it follows a regular cheme.. therfore actually
simulating what real drummers do..
I had very good drummers on midi kits in the past and
what they play is not random...but they move around
the timeline in a sinus/snake fashion... that is
natural groove that cant be achieved with a primitv
16th swing where every second 16th is late... 
Elektron creatred some kind of subtile macro swing
that made theire machines very popular in the minimal
scene..
So its not only a bad thing...
I am personally skilled enough to handle user
definable groove templates... but elektron decided for
a preset...
So a MD sounds like a MD groove wise.. 

I personally would prefer to have one special user
defineable track that can be set to high precission
and moved with a +/- offset delay..

that would cure all related problems for me... i only
need one refference for editing...and it needs to have
shift ability to design the groove in relation to the
other instruments...when my refference is a kick it
well might be delayd by 2-5 ms...


--- marc s davidson <psi@...> schrieb:

> hi david,
> 
> I have been following this topic with a great deal
> of interest.
> 
> you are correct in your assertions -  I have to
> agree completely with  
> what you are saying.
> 
> i appreciate the time you have taken to analyze and
> record the timing  
> anomalies of the MD.
> 
> I think there is a degree of 'the ' emperors new
> clothes ' about this  
> insofar as there seem
> 
> to be some that will deliberately cast aside the
> notion that there  
> are timing drifts in the machine
> 
> and consider it to be ' pedantic ' to say otherwise.
> I think you  
> should be congratulated for raising
> 
> this point because it is important and without the
> feedback of its  
> users , products cannot evolve
> 
> and develop to their full potential.
> 
> elekron users  are engaging in  an open and
> intelligent debate about  
> these issues and i
> 
> think it can  only be a good thing for elektron also
> to consider the  
> feedback and rise to the
> 
> challenges that are presented to them.  the best
> drum machines   
> should surely have the most
> 
> accuracy in their timing as well as the best
> interface, best  
> operating system , best sound etc.
> 
> 
> marc
> 
> www.psience.co.uk
> 
> 
> ' an excuse is only an excuse'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



      __________________________________  Kennt man wirklich jeden \ufffdber 3 Ecken? Die Antworten gibt's bei Yahoo! Clever. www.yahoo.de/clever

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "bainbrge"
<matthew.bainbridge@...> wrote: 
> 
> I know I would be super irritated if only I had the time to sit down
> and analyse the timing errors between quarter note hi-hats. For hours.

You don't need to analyse or spend hours or even do any testing. If
you sync up the SPS-1 to something that keeps regular time closer to
the mark you can hear very clearly within 2 bars that she moves around
more than she should. The later analysis and testing just proves what
is plain to hear. 

Remember that if none of your other hardware or software maintains
tight tempo precision any better than your SPS-1 then you won't notice
anything at all and this whole issue may seem like a total mystery to you.

Many years ago I started out with a few bits of average gear which
sounded OK together. Then I added something that was a bit more solid
and then the other stuff sounded a bit rough - didn't know why. Rather
than putting up with it I dug a bit deeper and worked it out. I slowly
got rid of the ruff stuff and started picking gear that stayed in the
pocket. After a while you start asking - if some boxes can nail it -
why can't others? 

You gotta ask the questions if you want to know the answers.....

Regards - David

timing inaccuracy in the studio: sucks
timing inaccuracy on stage: er... does not suck, not really

life is too short, move on or wait for sample-true virtual instruments powered by 
terrahertz clocked dsp chips coming to a drum machine near you sometime this decade

M
--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "innerclock2004" <david@...> wrote:

>
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "bainbrge"
> <matthew.bainbridge@> wrote: 
> > 
> > I know I would be super irritated if only I had the time to sit down
> > and analyse the timing errors between quarter note hi-hats. For hours.
> 
> You don't need to analyse or spend hours or even do any testing. If
> you sync up the SPS-1 to something that keeps regular time closer to
> the mark you can hear very clearly within 2 bars that she moves around
> more than she should. The later analysis and testing just proves what
> is plain to hear. 
> 
> Remember that if none of your other hardware or software maintains
> tight tempo precision any better than your SPS-1 then you won't notice
> anything at all and this whole issue may seem like a total mystery to you.
> 
> Many years ago I started out with a few bits of average gear which
> sounded OK together. Then I added something that was a bit more solid
> and then the other stuff sounded a bit rough - didn't know why. Rather
> than putting up with it I dug a bit deeper and worked it out. I slowly
> got rid of the ruff stuff and started picking gear that stayed in the
> pocket. After a while you start asking - if some boxes can nail it -
> why can't others? 
> 
> You gotta ask the questions if you want to know the answers.....
> 
> Regards - David
>

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Leo Cavallo" <leocavallo@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "bainbrge"
> <matthew.bainbridge@> wrote:
> >
> > I think you should sell your MD because it can't keep absolute
> > "autistic time", i.e. the super accurate time signature only the
> > severely autistic care about. 
> > 
> 
> what a gentleman... and what a brilliant example of humanity...
really...
>

I love it when people are so self important they have to demonstrate
how offended they are by some mild sarcasm on the internet...

I am quite happy to accept there are timing 'problems' with the MD, my
point is, do they matter that much? How many artists are using the MD
and making great music without running into this problem? Is it really
a deal breaker and a trigger to sell the machine? (or launch a class
action suit against Elektron as some guys here seem to want!)

My problem with the MD is that I can't get the damn thing to even sync
its midi clock consitently with Ableton Live (and we aren't talking
miliseconds here). But, I get the distinct impression it might be the
software (or my ineptitude) that's at fault.

Anyway, if you want to get rabid about timing problems, compare the
Virus Ti to the MD and then tell me which destroys workflow (and
sanity) more effectively!

> 'there is no drift...
> there is unprecission that got taylored in a way that
> it follows a regular cheme.. therfore actually
> simulating what real drummers do..'

what ?

are you serious ?

I use a drum machine to simulate what 'real' drummers do .. ???

I detect some bovine scatology impregnating this discussion ..

I want rock solid timing on my machine - if i want to 'swing' it then  
i use that function.

so now the 'irregular timing ' becomes a feature !

yeah right ...

so we all become 'unskilled' if we cannot use these anomalies to our  
advantage..

I think we have touched a large nerve here..

and i cannot believe the excuses that are being proffered .

It is only when David presented the findings to the group that we  
have learnt

of a ' deliberate ' design to create a groove in the machine - but  
one that has never

come to light before ... mmm..

Correct me if I'm wrong or call me old fashioned but  a precision  
timing mechanism

and rock solid synchronisation ( without excuses ) is what I expect  
from a highly specified

drum machine..

marc


























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