Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi!

This may have been asked before, but I can't find it in the archives 
(the Yahoo! Groups archives doesn't work very well, though)... I was 
wondering what uses have people given to the "flat LFO". I can't 
imagine a situation where it can be useful. While I have 
experimented with all LFOs, I never touch this one because I never 
happened to find it an use. So I wondered...

About the OT, I agree with the ones who say that OT is usually good, 
that OT is the thing that gives a mailing list a personality, and 
that, in the best cases, it would be inspiring because it's a 
reflection of electronic musicians' -in this case, Elektron users- 
taste / sense of humour / view of the world. As long as I also agree 
with the ones who want to keep the list focused, I'm up for the "OT" 
tag before the subject line. This one you can always filter the 
messages you don't want to know about.

Anyway, flat LFO, what is it good for?

Bye!

--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" 
<valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> This may have been asked before, but I can't find it in the 
archives 
> (the Yahoo! Groups archives doesn't work very well, though)... I 
was 
> wondering what uses have people given to the "flat LFO". I can't 
> imagine a situation where it can be useful. While I have 
> experimented with all LFOs, I never touch this one because I 
never 
> happened to find it an use. So I wondered...
>
> 
> Anyway, flat LFO, what is it good for?
> 
> Bye!

Flat LFO? What flat LFO?

Hi!

Erm... the Flat shape of the LFO... I'm sure I haven't dream it.

Bye!

--- In elektron-users@y..., "buzzard2uk" <nosebleed@a...> wrote:

> --- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" 
> <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > This may have been asked before, but I can't find it in the 
> archives 
> > (the Yahoo! Groups archives doesn't work very well, though)... I 
> was 
> > wondering what uses have people given to the "flat LFO". I can't 
> > imagine a situation where it can be useful. While I have 
> > experimented with all LFOs, I never touch this one because I 
> never 
> > happened to find it an use. So I wondered...
> >
> > 
> > Anyway, flat LFO, what is it good for?
> > 
> > Bye!
> 
> Flat LFO? What flat LFO?

--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" 
<valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Erm... the Flat shape of the LFO... I'm sure I haven't dream it.
> 
> Bye!
> 

Hi,

do you mean the square wave LFO?

Hi!

No. I know what's a square wave LFO. I've been into electronic music 
for years, too. I mean the Flat wave LFO. It's in the waveform menu 
of every LFO. It's in the owner's manual too.

Adeu!

--- In elektron-users@y..., "buzzard2uk" <nosebleed@a...> wrote:

> --- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" 
> <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Erm... the Flat shape of the LFO... I'm sure I haven't dream it.
> > 
> > Bye!
> > 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> do you mean the square wave LFO?

Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as "flat". So 
let's clarify your question for everyone: 
which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

(make sure you're viewing this with a MONO font, otherwise it won't display 
correctly!)

1)      /\    /       a "triangular wave"
       /  \  /
      /    \/



2)  \  |\  |\        a "sawtoothed wave"
     \ | \ | \
      \|  \|  \



3)  _____        a "square wave"
   |     |
         |_____|




4)  *          "impulse with linear decay"
    * *
    *   *
    *     *
    *       *
   *           *     *     *



5)  *          "impulse with logarithmic decay"
    **
    * *
    *   *
    *      *
   *            *     *     *



--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> No. I know what's a square wave LFO. I've been into electronic music 
> for years, too. I mean the Flat wave LFO. It's in the waveform menu 
> of every LFO. It's in the owner's manual too.
> 
> Adeu!

grrrr... the stupid ad messed up my formatting! Let's hope this one works.

Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as "flat". So 
let's clarify your question for everyone: 
which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?


(make sure you're viewing this in a MONO font, otherwise it won't display 
correctly!)








.  1)      /\    /       a "triangular wave"
.         /  \  /
.        /    \/
.
.
.
.  2)  \  |\  |\        a "sawtoothed wave"
.       \ | \ | \
.        \|  \|  \
.
.
.
.  3)  _____        a "square wave"
.     |     |
.           |_____|
.
.
.
.
.  4)  *          "impulse with linear decay"
.      * *
.      *   *
.      *     *
.      *       *
.     *           *     *     *
.
.
.
.  5)  *          "impulse with logarithmic decay"
.      **
.      * *
.      *   *
.      *      *
.     *            *     *     *
.
.
.

--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> No. I know what's a square wave LFO. I've been into electronic music 
> for years, too. I mean the Flat wave LFO. It's in the waveform menu 
> of every LFO. It's in the owner's manual too.
> 
> Adeu!

Man! Yahoo keeps cutting out my spaces in the text! It's messing up my 
formatting! I'll just upload a picture to the Photos folder called "Flat LFO", then 
you can just post a message stating which LFO from the picture you're talking 
about.


--- In elektron-users@y..., "sidstationownsyou" <sidstationownsyou@h...> 
wrote:

> grrrr... the stupid ad messed up my formatting! Let's hope this one works.
> 
> Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as "flat". So 
> let's clarify your question for everyone: 
> which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?
> 
> 
> (make sure you're viewing this in a MONO font, otherwise it won't display 
> correctly!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .  1)      /\    /       a "triangular wave"
> .         /  \  /
> .        /    \/
> .
> .
> .
> .  2)  \  |\  |\        a "sawtoothed wave"
> .       \ | \ | \
> .        \|  \|  \
> .
> .
> .
> .  3)  _____        a "square wave"
> .     |     |
> .           |_____|
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .  4)  *          "impulse with linear decay"
> .      * *
> .      *   *
> .      *     *
> .      *       *
> .     *           *     *     *
> .
> .
> .
> .  5)  *          "impulse with logarithmic decay"
> .      **
> .      * *
> .      *   *
> .      *      *
> .     *            *     *     *
> .
> .
> .
> 
> --- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > No. I know what's a square wave LFO. I've been into electronic music 
> > for years, too. I mean the Flat wave LFO. It's in the waveform menu 
> > of every LFO. It's in the owner's manual too.
> > 
> > Adeu!

On Sat Oct 05 2002, sidstationownsyou <sidstationownsyou@...> wrote:

> Man! Yahoo keeps cutting out my spaces in the text! It's messing up
> my formatting! I'll just upload a picture to the Photos folder
> called "Flat LFO", then you can just post a message stating which
> LFO from the picture you're talking about.

For me the ascii-art is coming through as it should, no problem with
that. Even the first one was ok.

/Janne

-- 
Janne G:son Berg, d3berg@...   http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3berg
                                      .

>grrrr... the stupid ad messed up my formatting! Let's hope this one works.
>
>Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as 
>"flat". So
>let's clarify your question for everyone:
>which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?
>
>
>(make sure you're viewing this in a MONO font, otherwise it won't display
>correctly!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.  1)      /\    /       a "triangular wave"
>.         /  \  /
>.        /    \/
>.
>.
>.
>.  2)  \  |\  |\        a "sawtoothed wave"
>.       \ | \ | \
>.        \|  \|  \
>.
>.
>.
>.  3)  _____        a "square wave"
>.     |     |
>.           |_____|
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.  4)  *          "impulse with linear decay"
>.      * *
>.      *   *
>.      *     *
>.      *       *
>.     *           *     *     *
>.
>.
>.
>.  5)  *          "impulse with logarithmic decay"
>.      **
>.      * *
>.      *   *
>.      *      *
>.     *            *     *     *
>.
>.
>.
>
>--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" <valladoliddiego@y...> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > No. I know what's a square wave LFO. I've been into electronic music
> > for years, too. I mean the Flat wave LFO. It's in the waveform menu
> > of every LFO. It's in the owner's manual too.
> >
> > Adeu!
>
>

Well, its in the manual and on the menu. Ive never used it however the 
manual suggests it be used as a base for external midi control messages. I 
would interpret that as saying its a neutral setting designed as a starting 
point to be controlled by an external device or sequencer.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world\ufffds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

What page of the manual? I don't see it on p.28 of the Machinedrum manual. 
Looking back at the original "Flat LFO" post, I see no mention of whether the 
subject is Machinedrum or Sidstation. I assumed we were talking about 
Machinedrum. Which one are we talking about?

> 
> Well, its in the manual and on the menu. Ive never used it however the 
> manual suggests it be used as a base for external midi control messages. I 
> would interpret that as saying its a neutral setting designed as a starting 
> point to be controlled by an external device or sequencer.
> 
> 
> 
____________________________________________________________
_____
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com

Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's LFOs.  It 
looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation does have a 
"flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The manual 
explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on the 
Sidstation?

c.

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou wrote:

> Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as 
> "flat". So
> let's clarify your question for everyone:
> which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

That's what I thought. I own a Machinedrum, but not a Sidstation, so I doubt I 
can help.

--- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> wrote:

> 
> Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's LFOs.  It 
> looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation does have a 
> "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The manual 
> explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on the 
> Sidstation?
> 
> c.
> 
> On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou wrote:
> 
> > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer to as 
> > "flat". So
> > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, sidstationownsyou wrote:

> That's what I thought. I own a Machinedrum, but not a Sidstation, so I doubt I 
> can help.

Heh heh, from your email address, I'd have guessed you own a
Sidstation. :)

I have a Sidstation, but not with me.  However, I am confused as to the,
er, confusion--the manual on the website makes it plainly clear that the
Flat waveform "is a non-oscillating flat LFO, which output is always set
to a steady maximum.  This is useful as a base for external MIDI control
messages."

I guess the original question is what it was good for--I guess if you want
an external MIDI control governing the depth of the LFO precisely, without
oscillation at all... the question actually was is if anyone out there HAS
used the Flat LFO, and for what reasons and how they've used it.

Of course now I want to tinker with it, and my Sidstation is not
here... :/

:)

-- 
R. Cliff Young <nukenin@...> /\/ Chaos Never Died
	http://www.roguebard.com/

At 10:57 PM 10/5/2002 -0400, R. Cliff Young wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, sidstationownsyou wrote:
>
> > That's what I thought. I own a Machinedrum, but not a Sidstation, so I 
> doubt I
> > can help.
>
>Heh heh, from your email address, I'd have guessed you own a
>Sidstation. :)

Heh!  I would've thought the same as well.  ;)

Me, I'm just the opposite -- Sidstation but no MD.

>I have a Sidstation, but not with me.  However, I am confused as to the,
>er, confusion--the manual on the website makes it plainly clear that the
>Flat waveform "is a non-oscillating flat LFO, which output is always set
>to a steady maximum.  This is useful as a base for external MIDI control
>messages."
>
>I guess the original question is what it was good for--I guess if you want
>an external MIDI control governing the depth of the LFO precisely, without
>oscillation at all... the question actually was is if anyone out there HAS
>used the Flat LFO, and for what reasons and how they've used it.

Well, I'm redoing my studio from scratch again and my Sid is also 
unavailable, so this is theory rather than practical experience.  In other 
words, YMMV, all standard disclaimers apply, please do not park in the 
yellow zone, yaddayaddayadda.

If the description is true-to-form, this should be a very kewl function. 
Assuming I'm reading it correctly, you should be able to link a MIDI 
control directly to the LFO and therefore control the modulating waveform 
directly via continuous controller.  If that's the case, all you'd have to 
do open your sequencer and draw whatever LFO shape you'd like in as CC 
data, which would control the LFO interactively.  Draw a sine wave across 
three notes then end in a random squiggle and go for a slow ramp for the 
next measure, for instance...

That's the way I've interpreted the manual anyway.  Let's see if anyone is 
actually in a position to test it and tell us for certain.

         -c-

_____
"i want to reach my hand into the dark and *feel* what reaches back"
                                                 -recoil

Hi!

I'm sorry I forgot to point I was using a SidStation. Thanks for 
caring, though!

Bye!

--- In elektron-users@y..., "sidstationownsyou" 
<sidstationownsyou@h...> wrote:
> That's what I thought. I own a Machinedrum, but not a Sidstation, 
so I doubt I 
> can help.
> 
> --- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> wrote:
> > 
> > Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's 
LFOs.  It 
> > looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation does 
have a 
> > "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The 
manual 
> > explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on the 
> > Sidstation?
> > 
> > c.
> > 
> > On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou 
wrote:
> > 
> > > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would 
refer to as 

> > > "flat". So
> > > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

Hi!

"If the description is true-to-form, this should be a very kewl 
function. Assuming I'm reading it correctly, you should be able to 
link a MIDI control directly to the LFO and therefore control the 
modulating waveform directly via continuous controller."

I'm not following you... What different does it make to draw CC data 
for the LFO depth, than it is to draw it for the parameter the LFO 
is modulating? As long as it's a "flat" LFO, there's not additional 
bonuses for using it for modulating a normal parameter -at least, 
not any bonus that I can imagine.

But, there must be good uses for it, or at least a reason for it 
being there. Maybe it's inherited from the Sid chip, and it had a 
use in the days that the chip was used to make Sid music in the old 
C-64, but now it's unnecesary because the modern tools make it 
unnecessary... (I'm not english so excuse my poor explanation... I 
hope it makes sense, though)

But, I'm now guessing that it can have some good use when adding one 
LFO to another. Maybe it's a trick to get interesting LFO 
waveforms... I hadn't thing about it till now, so thanks for the 
brainstorm. I don't have my SidStation here at the moment, but maybe 
later in the day I can try. Let's see what tricks we come up with...

"Kewl" mailing list.

Bye!

> I'm not following you... What different does it make to draw CC 
data 
> for the LFO depth, than it is to draw it for the parameter the LFO 
> is modulating? As long as it's a "flat" LFO, there's not additional 
> bonuses for using it for modulating a normal parameter -at least, 
> not any bonus that I can imagine.

The parameter you want to modulate might not be changed via CC but 
may have LFOs listed as modulation source. 
Maybe something like that would allow for a less CPU-hungry MIDI 
analysis routine ? just wondering ...

At 12:22 PM 10/6/2002 +0000, valladoliddiego wrote:

>"If the description is true-to-form, this should be a very kewl
>function. Assuming I'm reading it correctly, you should be able to
>link a MIDI control directly to the LFO and therefore control the
>modulating waveform directly via continuous controller."
>
>I'm not following you... What different does it make to draw CC data
>for the LFO depth, than it is to draw it for the parameter the LFO
>is modulating? As long as it's a "flat" LFO, there's not additional
>bonuses for using it for modulating a normal parameter -at least,
>not any bonus that I can imagine.

Good point, now that you mention it.  My best guess there is that there may 
be some modulation options that are accessible by an LFO that aren't 
directly routable via MIDI CC's.  Didn't think of that one right away.

>But, I'm now guessing that it can have some good use when adding one
>LFO to another. Maybe it's a trick to get interesting LFO
>waveforms... I hadn't thing about it till now, so thanks for the
>brainstorm. I don't have my SidStation here at the moment, but maybe
>later in the day I can try. Let's see what tricks we come up with...

Yep, there's another one.  That could provide some of the equivalent 
function of using a "DC Offset" block on a modular synth.

>"Kewl" mailing list.

Heh!  Not always, but we try...  ;)

         -c-

_____
"i want to reach my hand into the dark and *feel* what reaches back"
                                                 -recoil

> 
> Good point, now that you mention it.  My best guess there is that 
there may 
> be some modulation options that are accessible by an LFO that 
aren't 
> directly routable via MIDI CC's.  Didn't think of that one right 
away.
> 

that's just what I said two posts before... Funny how people don't 
read (you must have been too busy thinking about this :D ).
Anyway you came with a nice pointer with your first hint (having the 
LFO waveform user-specified thanks to CC).

You could also imagine that the flat LFO could be slaved to another 
of the Sidstation's LFOs so that you get for example LFO1 = LFO4 
minus some offset that you would define. This way depth on LFO1 would 
track automagically depth on LFO4. But maybe I'm loosing myself 
explaining what use we could have of this... :)

Regards

Xavier

just a quick note... you can make your mod wheel control the depth of 
a flat, for example you are able to control the cutoff of the filter 
via modwheel.

peeep ________________ faltline_______________ ;)


--- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> wrote:
> 
> Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's LFOs.  
It 
> looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation does 
have a 
> "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The manual 
> explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on the 
> Sidstation?
> 
> c.
> 
> On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou wrote:
> 
> > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would refer 
to as 

> > "flat". So
> > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

i just uplaoded 2 new patches that uses the flat lfo and the 
modulation wheel to control the depth.

--- In elektron-users@y..., "phonophobie" <sidstation@h...> wrote:
> just a quick note... you can make your mod wheel control the depth 
of 
> a flat, for example you are able to control the cutoff of the 
filter 
> via modwheel.
> 
> peeep ________________ faltline_______________ ;)
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> wrote:
> > 
> > Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's 
LFOs.  
> It 
> > looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation does 
> have a 
> > "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The 
manual 
> > explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on the 
> > Sidstation?
> > 
> > c.
> > 
> > On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou 
wrote:
> > 
> > > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would 
refer 

> to as 
> > > "flat". So
> > > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

Hi!

"i just uplaoded 2 new patches that uses the flat lfo and the 
modulation wheel to control the depth."

That's very cool. It gives you more possiblities for real-time 
control of some parameters than just reaching out for the knobs.

I've used Flat LFOs mixed with standard LFOs this evening. The 
result is similar to "interlacing" a LFO with "zero", but of course 
the value is not "zero" but wherever you had settled the "depth" of 
the Flat LFO. So it's a more flexible way for getting a 
LFO "interlaced", and you can control the depth with the modulation 
wheel. Could be cool for making rythmically modulated patches.

Bye!

> 
> --- In elektron-users@y..., "phonophobie" <sidstation@h...> wrote:
> > just a quick note... you can make your mod wheel control the 
depth 
> of 
> > a flat, for example you are able to control the cutoff of the 
> filter 
> > via modwheel.
> > 
> > peeep ________________ faltline_______________ ;)
> > 
> > 
> > --- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> 
wrote:
> > > 
> > > Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's 
> LFOs.  
> > It 
> > > looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation 
does 
> > have a 
> > > "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The 
> manual 
> > > explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on 
the 

> > > Sidstation?
> > > 
> > > c.
> > > 
> > > On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would 
> refer 
> > to as 
> > > > "flat". So
> > > > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > > > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?

could you maybee upload a patch of what you did? that would be nice

--- In elektron-users@y..., "valladoliddiego" <valladoliddiego@y...> 
wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> "i just uplaoded 2 new patches that uses the flat lfo and the 
> modulation wheel to control the depth."
> 
> That's very cool. It gives you more possiblities for real-time 
> control of some parameters than just reaching out for the knobs.
> 
> I've used Flat LFOs mixed with standard LFOs this evening. The 
> result is similar to "interlacing" a LFO with "zero", but of course 
> the value is not "zero" but wherever you had settled the "depth" of 
> the Flat LFO. So it's a more flexible way for getting a 
> LFO "interlaced", and you can control the depth with the modulation 
> wheel. Could be cool for making rythmically modulated patches.
> 
> Bye!
> 
> > 
> > --- In elektron-users@y..., "phonophobie" <sidstation@h...> wrote:
> > > just a quick note... you can make your mod wheel control the 
> depth 
> > of 
> > > a flat, for example you are able to control the cutoff of the 
> > filter 
> > > via modwheel.
> > > 
> > > peeep ________________ faltline_______________ ;)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In elektron-users@y..., Corey Appleby <digitalwank@m...> 
> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Just to clarify, I think he's talking about the Sidstation's 
> > LFOs.  
> > > It 
> > > > looks like your list is the MD's LFO types.  The Sidstation 
> does 
> > > have a 
> > > > "flat" LFO type, but I'm not sure what it's for either.  The 
> > manual 
> > > > explanation wasn't very helpful for me.  Anyone use this on 
> the 
> > > > Sidstation?
> > > > 
> > > > c.
> > > > 
> > > > On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:20 PM, sidstationownsyou 
> > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Alright... there is no LFO waveform available that I would 
> > refer 
> > > to as 
> > > > > "flat". So
> > > > > let's clarify your question for everyone:
> > > > > which one of the following waveforms are you calling "flat"?