Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi Jeff. 
There are some interesting patches on the website of this mailinglist. (groups.yahoo.com/...) There are also loads of patches on the elektron website (www.elektron.se). But I most like it to make them myself, and probably you will too. So have phun, and welcome to the club! ;-)
-Chris

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:14 AM
  Subject: [elektron] I just got a SIDStation and I love it


  Hey,

  The subject pretty much says it all.
  I'm also new to this mailing list.

  Anyone have any interesting patches
  they'd be willing to share?  I'm just
  starting to learn how to program the
  thing, after playing with all the
  Elektron patches.

  Later,

  J. W. McCall


  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hullo jeff

my advice is to start by modifying the preset patches ive tried the other 
patch banks and they aren't quite as diverse (though a load of cool sound 
effects)- if you don't have much knowledge of synthesis work the presets 
into the sounds you want, the rest will come to you over time. also read the 
manual and sync the tables to midi, all my favourite patches are achieved 
this way..

/steven

>From: Jeff <jmccall@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [elektron] I just got a SIDStation and I love it
>Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:14:55 -0600
>
>Hey,
>
>The subject pretty much says it all.
>I'm also new to this mailing list.
>
>Anyone have any interesting patches
>they'd be willing to share?  I'm just
>starting to learn how to program the
>thing, after playing with all the
>Elektron patches.
>
>Later,
>
>J. W. McCall
>


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How do you use the compressor in "dance" patterns?
I have just started routing the kick on individual output, and 
compressing everything else in the main outputs.
Is this the right way?

I've played a lot with the compressor, because I was really 
unexperienced.
I've noticed that setting release at around 70, high pass filter at 
high value, heavy compression and hard knee (is hard=low values?), 
often gives a really tight kick; it's something I  like, but it's 
really not gradual: I mean, setting release from 0 to 70 changes almost 
nothing, and then after 70 the kick suddenly changes and becomes tight, 
loud and aggressive.
Can someone explain me this behaviour of the compressor?

Is an external compressor (like joemeek ones) a good addiction?
Sometimes I'd like snares and hi-hats to be more "snappy", more 
present, but can't obtain that.

Thanks

> I have just started routing the kick on individual
> output, and 
> compressing everything else in the main outputs.
> Is this the right way?
Actually, it is the other way around. You want to
compress your bass drum first, and then bring
eveything toghether in the mix (since you cannot
compress stuff separately in the MD- at least not
internally-, you can compress everything together
towards the low end and then you can bring up that hh
and snare you're talking about wanting to be more
snappy with the EQ)
 
 I mean, setting release from 0
> to 70 changes almost 
> nothing, and then after 70 the kick suddenly changes
> and becomes tight, 
> loud and aggressive.
> Can someone explain me this behaviour of the
> compressor?

With short release times the compression just lets go 
sooner after the sound to be noticed (not unlike the
release in the reverv. The longer the time, the more
noticeable the effect after the sound). The
compression is right there, but the effect does not
carry to the empty spaces.
> 
> Is an external compressor (like joemeek ones) a good
> addiction?
There's a compressor called the "really nice
compressor" (I'm not kidding) that goes for a little
over a $100 and really does a job on percussion, you
might want to look it up. Of course, Joe Meek stuff is
outstanding. If you got crazy money those "finalizers"
by Focusrite/Eventide? are just sweet to bring your
whole mix together.
On a related note, I recently took my MD to a studio
to help a friend do some tracks. He's been a sound
engineer for years now and commented on how the MD's
compressor felt weird (not bad, just different). I've
also felt this sometimes, while trying to compress
minimal techno tracks and trying to achieve a sort of
warehouse feel. If this is what you're trying to
achieve yourself, then let also the reverv be big into
the mix (with a lot of low freq, and little hi freq.,
so that it gets "lost" after you compress it)
Hope this helps any
Sr Minimo
> 
> 


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Flavio Alvarez wrote:
<snip>.
> On a related note, I recently took my MD to a studio
> to help a friend do some tracks. He's been a sound
> engineer for years now and commented on how the MD's
> compressor felt weird (not bad, just different).

Good compressor story.

Could you describe what your friend did with the MD - sound wise /
compressing / EQ-ing, etc.? How did the result sound?

Gert

> Could you describe what your friend did with the MD
> - sound wise /
> compressing / EQ-ing, etc.? 
He just went crazy on it, twisting knobs and laughing
like a little kid. All the time saying "I can't
believe this shit!!!!!" (sounds familiar?)

How did the result
> sound?
Crunchy. Sort of like... Dj Rush???

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Flavio Alvarez wrote:
>> Could you describe what your friend did with the MD
>> - sound wise /
>> compressing / EQ-ing, etc.?
> He just went crazy on it, twisting knobs and laughing
> like a little kid. All the time saying "I can't
> believe this shit!!!!!" (sounds familiar?)
>
> How did the result
>> sound?
> Crunchy. Sort of like... Dj Rush???

Hehehehe. I knew it! This machine is in fact a drug! Let's keep quiet about
it and let's hope the government won't prohibit selling, possession and use
of it...

:-)

Gert

> Actually, it is the other way around. You want to
> compress your bass drum first, and then bring
> eveything toghether in the mix (since you cannot
> compress stuff separately in the MD- at least not
> internally-, you can compress everything together
> towards the low end and then you can bring up that hh
> and snare you're talking about wanting to be more
> snappy with the EQ)

I should mute all tracks but not kick, adjust the compressor, and then 
adjust levels and eq of all tracks. Am I right?

I will try this, even if I have started achieving good results (= 
snappy snare!) with the other way (kick not compressed and on 
individual out, everything else compressed by the dinamix).
Isn't the HP sidechain in the compressor designed to not let BD 
influence the compressor? That would make sense with what I'm doing....


I'd really like to have more compressors on the MD, but I remember to 
have read that this is not possible because it would need too much dsp 
resources, and PI synthesis already sucks many.
But why not leave the choice to the user?
I never use 16 tracks of PI synthesis, and I doubt that anyone does.
Elektron, are you reading? ;-)

>  I've
> also felt this sometimes, while trying to compress
> minimal techno tracks and trying to achieve a sort of
> warehouse feel. If this is what you're trying to
> achieve yourself, then let also the reverv be big into
> the mix (with a lot of low freq, and little hi freq.,
> so that it gets "lost" after you compress it)

I've already tried that. That's a nice effect.

Tip:
Has anyone tried routing MD outs to an analog filter and overdrive, 
like the Electrix Filterfactory?
Awesome! Really "dirt" drums.

I hope not to be the only one interested in this thread!

On Tue Nov 05 2002, Flavio Alvarez <srminimo@...> wrote:

> Actually, it is the other way around. You want to
> compress your bass drum first, and then bring
> eveything toghether in the mix (since you cannot
> compress stuff separately in the MD- at least not
> internally-, you can compress everything together
> towards the low end and then you can bring up that hh
> and snare you're talking about wanting to be more
> snappy with the EQ)

It took me a while before I got to grips with the compressor. This is
what I did:

1. Put a handclap with looooooong decay on beat 2 and 4. Quite low
   volume, I'd say about 40/127.
2. Kickdrums on beat 1,2,3 and 4. Max volume.
3. Go to the compressor, lowest possible value for triggering
   compression, maximum compression ratio
4. Minimum attack time, maximum decay time

Start the pattern, lower the decay time until you hear the compressor
start pumping. Play around with the rest of the controls for the
compressor.

This made me understand a bit more of how the compressor in the MD works.

/Janne

-- 
Janne G:son Berg, d3berg@...   http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3berg
                                      .

Federico Ciapi wrote:

> I should mute all tracks but not kick, adjust the compressor, and then
> adjust levels and eq of all tracks. Am I right?

I have found that it's best to make a mix first that is as much too my
liking as possible. So NO compressing, NO EQ, and NO reverb. You can make a
good mix not only by volume changes and panning, but also by editing the
sounds themselves (for example make a sharp hihat softer, or tweak some more
punch in a kick that is too soft.
Then EQ and Reverb. If you use small rooms as reverb, and not too much
reverb send, and you combine this with the compressor and EQ, it's my
opinion that the MD sounds awesome already.
The last step is inserting the compressor for the finishing touch (and
there's quite a lot of useful options on this one, e.g. the knob where you
can filter out compression of low frequencies!)
Since I always record on HD, I most of the time use 4 band compression from
my Waves C4 afterwards, which is *really* cool.
I only have the MD since 1 week, and I have not made any recordings with it
up till now (busy at work), but the combination of MD and computer will be
great. I plan to record loops as a whole, and maybe some instruments
separately as to give them a special software treatment later. OTOH There's
also some great Battery kits I can use to complement the MD. Looking forward
already to make new stuff!

>
> I will try this, even if I have started achieving good results (=
> snappy snare!) with the other way (kick not compressed and on
> individual out, everything else compressed by the dinamix).
> Isn't the HP sidechain in the compressor designed to not let BD
> influence the compressor? That would make sense with what I'm
> doing....

Yep, that's a very cool feature! OTOH, I seem to like the results more when
I compress the whole frequency spectrum...

> I'd really like to have more compressors on the MD,

As said, record to HD and compress your heart out :))

> I hope not to be the only one interested in this thread!

Nope, me too!!!

:))

Gert

> I only have the MD since 1 week, and I have not made any recordings with
it
> up till now (busy at work) [[snip]

Now I understand that huge mailing list activity gert ;-)

> Yep, that's a very cool feature! OTOH, I seem to like the results more
when
> I compress the whole frequency spectrum...

To be totally correct, I think the MD does not have a multiband compressor,
so it is always the whole spectrum that is compressed.. but the sidechain
let you filter the signal that will be used to decide the amount of
compression to be applied. So if you use only HF, the compressor will not
react to the bassdrum and overcompress your track.

> Ah, I thought I knew your face! You're on the music-bar as well. 

Damn ! I've benn spotted. Quick ... smoke screen (wiip vanished)

> I should mute all tracks but not kick, adjust the
> compressor, and then 
> adjust levels and eq of all tracks. Am I right?

You can, but you don't NEED to do this, as you'll
still have to do some tweaking after you bring in
those other instruments. By definition a compressor is
a: Device designed to reduce the dynamic range of
audio signals by reducing the level of high signals or
increasing the level of low signals. 
Sooooo! What you're trying to achieve with your
compressor is increasing the "volume" of your mix
without increasing the output levels. What you want to
do is add body to your mid-ranges and tighten your
bass while bringing down you highs into the mix (I
hope this is making some kind of sense, so far). As
compression will affect everything in the mix, many
recommend applying compression first and later
applying EQ (where you will bring back some of those
highs lost in compression). 
Also consider: the speakers you're using as monitors
influence heavily the outcome of your post production.
It's not a bad idea perhaps to find a track with the
sound that you want and start doing your master
effects comparing to that while listening through the
same speakers.
In the end, if you're already happy with your outcome
(and by the sound of your demos you should be) hey! If
it ain't broke...



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Flavio Alvarez wrote:
.
> Sooooo! What you're trying to achieve with your
> compressor is increasing the "volume" of your mix
> without increasing the output levels.

It's not *only* about increasing volume.
Another very important point is to make sure that there are no sudden volume
spikes, like e.g. snaredrums or cowbells. This can really hurt your ears
when your track is played very loud over a big PA. With drumcomputers you
might be able to prevent that effect by just making all snares about the
same velocity, but with real life drummers, it can be tricky.
A third point is that compressing can *change* the sound of an instrument
and make it much more powerful. Kicks and snares can be made a lot fatter,
for example, by choosing the right parameters.

Gert

"Also consider: the speakers you're using as monitors
 influence heavily the outcome of your post production.
 It's not a bad idea perhaps to find a track with the
 sound that you want and start doing your master
 effects comparing to that while listening through the
 same speakers."

I have a question for this.  Your final results should represent the
system you are making your track for.  For example, headphones, car
audio, home theatre, or club sound systems.  Is this not the reason
there are radio edits and club mixes?  I have s#I+ computer speakers
for monitors.  But I use my decent headphones when I mix.  So I guess
I'm making headphone music.  Until I buy good monitors of course.

To reiterate what you last said about compression.  You could compress
individually, but it's more effective to compress the whole track. 
This sets the output levels when your track is played back on a sound
system.  Right?

Thanks for the nice explanation of the compressor and mixing, Flavio

> In the end, if you're already happy with your outcome
> (and by the sound of your demos you should be) hey! If
> it ain't broke...

Well, I'm never totally satisfied about anything :-)

> 
> Well, I'm never totally satisfied about anything :-)

Amen

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> I have a question for this.  Your final results
> should represent the
> system you are making your track for.  For example,
> headphones, car
> audio, home theatre, or club sound systems.  Is this
> not the reason
> there are radio edits and club mixes?  

Yes and No. Different styles of music are mastered
differently, even within electronic music. Tracks to
be played at clubs have a more pumped up low end
volume than say, an Aphex Twin record to be listened
to at home(but here it gets tricky and does not rely
simply on mastering, as even the amount of time
recorded on the vinyl affects the sound of a club
track. More low end volume in vinyl means a wider,
deeper groove, and the more time you have on each
side, the smaller the groove). Radio edits and club
mixes (as far as I know) have not to do with the
sound, but with the edit (a radio edit is shorter, so
as to be friendlier for radio play, the club mix is
usually a remix by Tiesto or one of those guys).
When going to a studio to master you'll use the same
monitors for all kinds of music, you'll just master
differently. Monitors should ideally be as "flat" as
possible, meaning their sound should not lean towards
the bass or treble, as this will affect the way you
master. In your computer monitors you might bring up
the bass too much, because you can't hear it well
through your speakers, while on your headphones you'll
realize there's TOO much bass and bring it down, only
to take your track or MachineDrum to a club and rearly
kill everybody as your mids are too high. That's why
it's not a bad idea to compare with well produced
tracks AS THEY SOUND IN YOUR SPEAKERS, or headphones,
because they were mastered in good monitors and can
help you out to define what your home speakers are
favoring. 

> To reiterate what you last said about compression. 
> You could compress
> individually, but it's more effective to compress
> the whole track. 

In the MachineDrum it's probably more effective to
compress everything toghether, although it can never
hurt to experiment doing just the Bass Drum and then
bringing in everything else to see what happens.
Different ways of doing thins are always good.

> This sets the output levels when your track is
> played back on a sound
> system.  Right?

I Don't know that the MD's compressor works as a
limiter. I think it only works dynamics (I could be
wrong). If this is the case you can very well kill
somebody with a wayward snare. Best to look at the
meters in your mixer to keep levels in check.
Much respect
Sr M
> 
> 
> 


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