Elektron Musical Instruments

there's a thread at the moment about how well the MD is suited to 
drum and bass. I am interested in how suited it is for drill n bass.

I own a machinedrum, but at the moment I don't play live - but will 
be in the near future, and the MD will be an integral part of my 
setup (which is very small, btw).

I don't really make drill and bass, but more glitchy almost IDM-ish 
stuff. I do though, use a lot of the stuttery, fast retrigs akin to 
drill n bass (very aphex twin and squarepusher-ish). at the moment I 
am doing this in reason when I'm working on the computer, and I'm 
wondering if this same effect will be possible on the machinedrum 
OTHER THAN the E12 machines (without sequencing externally).

the reason I ask, is because I would rely on the MD doing all 
sequencing - drums, and maybe triggering basslines and pads with the 
MIDI machines. is it possible to have more control over this kind of 
sequencing/fast retriggering using the MD sequencer?

sorry for the long post, I'm just trying to get my point across, lol.
 
 - Joe

I've been known to experiment in the drill'n'bass on occasion.  ;-]

I have no idea how i'd begin to approach doing it on the machinedrum.   
Well, controlled drill'n'bass anyway.  It's too rigid...  You could  
torque out some chunks that might shred up right well, layering up  
retrigs on toms and hats and snares with ghosts doing the same with  
lfos on the delays and the trig times... i've done some things on the  
MD this way, but it's just not enough control.

  I use a yamaha qy70 for triggering things in that way off the  
machinedrum or my 808 or my micro mod... works wonderfully.

On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:34 AM, omnipresence_data wrote:

> there's a thread at the moment about how well the MD is suited to
> drum and bass. I am interested in how suited it is for drill n bass.
>
> I own a machinedrum, but at the moment I don't play live - but will
> be in the near future, and the MD will be an integral part of my
> setup (which is very small, btw).
>
> I don't really make drill and bass, but more glitchy almost IDM-ish
> stuff. I do though, use a lot of the stuttery, fast retrigs akin to
> drill n bass (very aphex twin and squarepusher-ish). at the moment I
> am doing this in reason when I'm working on the computer, and I'm
> wondering if this same effect will be possible on the machinedrum
> OTHER THAN the E12 machines (without sequencing externally).
>
> the reason I ask, is because I would rely on the MD doing all
> sequencing - drums, and maybe triggering basslines and pads with the
> MIDI machines. is it possible to have more control over this kind of
> sequencing/fast retriggering using the MD sequencer?
>
> sorry for the long post, I'm just trying to get my point across, lol.
>
>  - Joe
>
>
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If you all want the truth on how to make the best
beats for all genres of electronic. First you'll need
plenty of cash. Next buy any of these fine products
Reason, FLStudio, Roland MC909, Elektron Machinedrum,
Korg Er1 and a sampler along with some sampled drm
hits. If you're on a budget then choose from one or
two of the above. Whatever you get just have fun with
it, thats what making music is all about. :)

-Auto



--- damon <damon@...> wrote:
> I've been known to experiment in the drill'n'bass on
> occasion.  ;-]
> 
> I have no idea how i'd begin to approach doing it on
> the machinedrum.   
> Well, controlled drill'n'bass anyway.  It's too
> rigid...  You could  
> torque out some chunks that might shred up right
> well, layering up  
> retrigs on toms and hats and snares with ghosts
> doing the same with  
> lfos on the delays and the trig times... i've done
> some things on the  
> MD this way, but it's just not enough control.
> 
>   I use a yamaha qy70 for triggering things in that
> way off the  
> machinedrum or my 808 or my micro mod... works
> wonderfully.
> 
> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:34 AM, omnipresence_data wrote:
> 
> > there's a thread at the moment about how well the
> MD is suited to
> > drum and bass. I am interested in how suited it is
> for drill n bass.
> >
> > I own a machinedrum, but at the moment I don't
> play live - but will
> > be in the near future, and the MD will be an
> integral part of my
> > setup (which is very small, btw).
> >
> > I don't really make drill and bass, but more
> glitchy almost IDM-ish
> > stuff. I do though, use a lot of the stuttery,
> fast retrigs akin to
> > drill n bass (very aphex twin and
> squarepusher-ish). at the moment I
> > am doing this in reason when I'm working on the
> computer, and I'm
> > wondering if this same effect will be possible on
> the machinedrum
> > OTHER THAN the E12 machines (without sequencing
> externally).
> >
> > the reason I ask, is because I would rely on the
> MD doing all
> > sequencing - drums, and maybe triggering basslines
> and pads with the
> > MIDI machines. is it possible to have more control
> over this kind of
> > sequencing/fast retriggering using the MD
> sequencer?
> >
> > sorry for the long post, I'm just trying to get my
> point across, lol.
> >
> >  - Joe
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP,
> Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
> more to the US &  
> > Canada.
> > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> >
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/XkLolB/TM
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> > ~->
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 


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> I use a yamaha qy70 for triggering things in that way off the  
> machinedrum or my 808 or my micro mod... works wonderfully.

so do you use the QY70 as your sequencer for everything? or do you 
just program complex things like this, slave it to another 
sequencer/midi device and just trigger patterns on it when you need 
them?

I looked up the qy70 at yamahasynth.com, and it doesn't tell how 
precisely you can quantise/snap. does it to 64ths? 

does anyone else know other ways i could achieve the drill part of 
drill n bass? :D

 - Joe

On Mon Nov 03 2003, omnipresence_data <tu_plang_kon_uauk@...> wrote:

> does anyone else know other ways i could achieve the drill part of 
> drill n bass? :D

Triggered LFO:s on several tracks, affecting only one sound?

/Janne

The QY series does not even need the quantisation, although u can if you
want to. It is a very neat machine (I own a QY100) but the sequence editor
(event lists) is pretty much a nightmare to use :)

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "omnipresence_data" <tu_plang_kon_uauk@...>
To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [elektron] drill n bass on MD


> > I use a yamaha qy70 for triggering things in that way off the
> > machinedrum or my 808 or my micro mod... works wonderfully.
>
> so do you use the QY70 as your sequencer for everything? or do you
> just program complex things like this, slave it to another
> sequencer/midi device and just trigger patterns on it when you need
> them?
>
> I looked up the qy70 at yamahasynth.com, and it doesn't tell how
> precisely you can quantise/snap. does it to 64ths?
>
> does anyone else know other ways i could achieve the drill part of
> drill n bass? :D
>
>  - Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Automatic Panic wrote:

> If you all want the truth on how to make the best
> beats for all genres of electronic. First you'll need
> plenty of cash. Next buy any of these fine products
> Reason, FLStudio, Roland MC909, Elektron Machinedrum,
> Korg Er1 and a sampler along with some sampled drm
> hits. If you're on a budget then choose from one or
> two of the above. Whatever you get just have fun with
> it, thats what making music is all about. :)

I own Reason (2.5) and the Machinedrum. I'm very happy with the 
results I'm getting with my drums, and when I get feedback about my 
songs, most of it is complimenting my drum programming :).

however.

I can easily achieve what I want in a studio situation, which is all 
well and good. but pulling it off LIVE is what I'm now looking into.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "omnipresence_data" 
<tu_plang_kon_uauk@h...> wrote:
> I can easily achieve what I want in a studio situation, which is 
all 
> well and good. but pulling it off LIVE is what I'm now looking into.

Practice......, a LOT!
Learn to play your sequencers like instruments.
Tip: Practice at home with the exact same placement of gear you plan 
to setup on a gig. This way you find everything without thinking, 
very important for improvising on the fly.
And try to limit your set, or at least the amount of gear you'll 
have/want to tweak.

Ronald.

> Practice......, a LOT!
> Learn to play your sequencers like instruments.
> Tip: Practice at home with the exact same placement of gear you 
plan 
> to setup on a gig. This way you find everything without thinking, 
> very important for improvising on the fly.
> And try to limit your set, or at least the amount of gear you'll 
> have/want to tweak.

the thing is, my setup consists of the machinedrum, and a yamaha 
s90. and when i aim to play live I will be using the machinedrum as 
my sole sequencer. I will be writing new material to play live, not 
using my older stuff, but I still want to be able to use these kinds 
of drillnbass fills etc.

this is why i wanna know how to do it from the MD. and if this is 
not possible, then what other options do I have? another sequencer, 
a laptop... etc. I will eventually by some more gear in the future, 
but I have no money to spend at the moment, so I'm just seeing if I 
can get by with what I've got.

thanks for the reply though.

On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:34:10PM -0000, omnipresence_data wrote:
>    I don't really make drill and bass, but more glitchy almost IDM-ish
>    stuff. I do though, use a lot of the stuttery, fast retrigs akin to
>    drill n bass (very aphex twin and squarepusher-ish).

well remember that squarepusher did his early records using a boss
dr-660 for the drums and main sequencing. have you ever used one of
those things? they're great for what they are (and for the price), but
they're toys compared to the MD. they're *incredibly* limited and
simple.

anyway, my point is that where there's a will, there's a way. my first
solution to the drill'n bass thing is the obvious one: program certain
patterns that are one long drum roll and then play them back at very
high speeds. you can use the song sequencer to grab smaller portions of
the pattern as well as to play it back at the high speed in the measure
position that you want.

BUT this is going to hog up your memory really fast. so you'll have to
do some experimenting and see if there's a compromise somewhere with
this or another solution entirely. please post your solution once you
find it, though.

good luck!
Joe

> ...using a boss dr-660 for the drums and main sequencing. have you 
> ever used one of those things?... ...they're *incredibly* limited 
> and simple.

no I've never used one, but next time I'm at the music store I'll 
look around to see if theyve got one, and I'll see if it would suit 
my needs.

> ...program certain patterns that are one long drum roll and then
> play them back at very high speeds. you can use the song sequencer 
> to grab smaller portions of the pattern as well as to play it back 
> at the high speed in the measure position that you want.

hey. I hadn't thought of this. true - it will take up a lot of 
memory. perhaps I could do a long roll of every single track in the 
one pattern. and then mute all the ones I don't want. but good 
thinking - I handn't thought of this. will look into it.

 - Joe

On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:51:55AM -0000, omnipresence_data wrote:
>    no I've never used one, but next time I'm at the music store I'll
>    look around to see if theyve got one, and I'll see if it would suit
>    my needs.

don't bother. what you have is far more powerful. besides, I think the
boss machines give you *two* parameters (pitch and decay) to change per
drum sound!

>    hey. I hadn't thought of this. true - it will take up a lot of
>    memory.

again with the squarepusher reference...but he has said that one track
would take up the entire memory on his machine. but there's more pattern
memory on the MD, so I don't think things will be *quite* that bad for
you.

>    perhaps I could do a long roll of every single track in the
>    one pattern. and then mute all the ones I don't want. but good
>    thinking - I handn't thought of this. will look into it.

the other thing you should look at is delay. if you set the delay engine
up right, you can use it for some nice roll effects. but, of course, you
can't sequence the MD's delay engine parameters so you'd have one
(psuedo) roll speed per kit.

Joe

you guys ever thought of sampling the MD then use your
samples in Reason ;) Much easy way to get what you are
wanting. :)

-Auto

--- Joe <jmelnyk@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:51:55AM -0000,
> omnipresence_data wrote:
> >    no I've never used one, but next time I'm at
> the music store I'll
> >    look around to see if theyve got one, and I'll
> see if it would suit
> >    my needs.
> 
> don't bother. what you have is far more powerful.
> besides, I think the
> boss machines give you *two* parameters (pitch and
> decay) to change per
> drum sound!
> 
> >    hey. I hadn't thought of this. true - it will
> take up a lot of
> >    memory.
> 
> again with the squarepusher reference...but he has
> said that one track
> would take up the entire memory on his machine. but
> there's more pattern
> memory on the MD, so I don't think things will be
> *quite* that bad for
> you.
> 
> >    perhaps I could do a long roll of every single
> track in the
> >    one pattern. and then mute all the ones I don't
> want. but good
> >    thinking - I handn't thought of this. will look
> into it.
> 
> the other thing you should look at is delay. if you
> set the delay engine
> up right, you can use it for some nice roll effects.
> but, of course, you
> can't sequence the MD's delay engine parameters so
> you'd have one
> (psuedo) roll speed per kit.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 


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On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 06:33:01PM -0800, Automatic Panic wrote:
>    you guys ever thought of sampling the MD then use your
>    samples in Reason ;) Much easy way to get what you are
>    wanting. :)

I thought he was looking for an MD-exclusive solution only. (and the
problem/solution has nothing to do with me, as I'm not trying to write
drum'n bass.)

Joe

sorry Joe, just thought I would try and help out
anyone in need. :) 


--- Joe <jmelnyk@...> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 06:33:01PM -0800, Automatic
> Panic wrote:
> >    you guys ever thought of sampling the MD then
> use your
> >    samples in Reason ;) Much easy way to get what
> you are
> >    wanting. :)
> 
> I thought he was looking for an MD-exclusive
> solution only. (and the
> problem/solution has nothing to do with me, as I'm
> not trying to write
> drum'n bass.)
> 
> Joe
> 
> 


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On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 07:12:55PM -0800, Automatic Panic wrote:
>    sorry Joe, just thought I would try and help out
>    anyone in need. :)

no need to apologize :-) your solution is in fact easier (and more
extensible) if one doesn't mind using software. I for one am not one of
those people and I thought he wanted an MD-only solution anyway.

Joe

I guess you could use song mode.  You'd have to probably set the tempo up so your 
32nd notes would be like 64ths.  Is this possible?  I'm not good at math.  You'd have to 
compromise with the tempo.  You can change the tempo in song mode also.  It seems 
like the monomachine can be drilly.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 07:12:55PM -0800, Automatic Panic wrote:
> >    sorry Joe, just thought I would try and help out
> >    anyone in need. :)
> 
> no need to apologize :-) your solution is in fact easier (and more
> extensible) if one doesn't mind using software. I for one am not one of
> those people and I thought he wanted an MD-only solution anyway.
> 
> Joe

> you guys ever thought of sampling the MD then use your
> samples in Reason ;) Much easy way to get what you are
> wanting. :)
> 
> -Auto

hey, I'm sure if everyone got the point I was trying to get across. 
I already DO do this, and use reason a lot of the time. I have 
absolutely NO problem with drum programming in the studio - I can do 
anything I want.

the reason I was asking for a MD only solution was because I want to 
do the whole drill'n'bass type sounds in a LIVE situation.

and seeing as I don't have any other external sequencers (other than 
my computer, which I won't be using live), I NEED to do it on the 
machinedrum.

btw sorry bout that last post. I re-read it and it sounds a bit 
aggressive. this was not intended.

I also left out a word, which didn't help. at the top, I meant to 
say "I'm NOT sure everyone got my point" or whatever.

 - Joe (theres a lot of us around here isn't there :P)

If you can't get what you want from the MD maybe you can look for a 
second hand korg es-1. It can do crazy stuff with the delay and roll 
functions. It's a sampler so you can load it with your favorite 
sounds and it also can do sliced loops.

Ronald.

The ES-1 still has that stupid clock bug though

On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:04 AM, Roonan wrote:

> If you can't get what you want from the MD maybe you can look for a
> second hand korg es-1. It can do crazy stuff with the delay and roll
> functions. It's a sampler so you can load it with your favorite
> sounds and it also can do sliced loops.
>
> Ronald.
>
>
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