Elektron Musical Instruments

droolmaster0 wrote:
> I've been curious about the manikin-electronic sequencer, but I've
> only been able to find info in German about it. I am contemplating
> purchasing a p3 soon - this seems to be a very powerful step
> sequencer, going way beyond the capabilities of the monomachine's
> sequencer.

The P3 is cool, but you have to built it yourself from the parts you get
(well, that's the idea).

> The monomachine's sequencer is nice, and is extremely well integrated
> into the synth, but it lacks some features that you would expect from
> a dedicated step sequencer - most notably the ability to make tracks
> of different lengths.
>

I've also been checking the Zeit. It looks awesome, but it's probably still
taking a while until it's finished.
The Schrittmacher seems to have a load of options - like tracks of different
length. There are 4 tracks, each track is 16 steps, and there are 8 lines
for controllers per track.

I have seen it in action a couple of times, and it's very cool. Imagine
connecting it to an Arturia Moog Modular V... total Phatness in a handsome
little hands-on package

:-)

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" 
<g.vansanten@c...> wrote:
> droolmaster0 wrote:
> > I've been curious about the manikin-electronic sequencer, but I've
> > only been able to find info in German about it. I am contemplating
> > purchasing a p3 soon - this seems to be a very powerful step
> > sequencer, going way beyond the capabilities of the monomachine's
> > sequencer.
> 
> The P3 is cool, but you have to built it yourself from the parts 
you get
> (well, that's the idea).

Well, not necessarily. He also builds them, and I am planning to buy 
a completed one from him later this month.

> 
> > The monomachine's sequencer is nice, and is extremely well 
integrated
> > into the synth, but it lacks some features that you would expect 
from
> > a dedicated step sequencer - most notably the ability to make 
tracks
> > of different lengths.
> >
> 
> I've also been checking the Zeit. It looks awesome, but it's 
probably still
> taking a while until it's finished.

The Zeit looks totally awesome, but very expensive. Then there is the 
PPhaedra...


> The Schrittmacher seems to have a load of options - like tracks of 
different
> length. There are 4 tracks, each track is 16 steps, and there are 8 
lines
> for controllers per track.
> 
> I have seen it in action a couple of times, and it's very cool. 
Imagine
> connecting it to an Arturia Moog Modular V... total Phatness in a 
handsome
> little hands-on package
> 
> :-)
> 
I wish they had specs in English for it, or even a price. The p3 has 
some incredible modulation capabilities. It's worth looking at the 
manual...towards the back. The interface isn't as nice as the Zeit, 
though. On the other hand, it's something like $1500 cheaper, if I 
remember the price of the Zeit correctly.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" 
> The Schrittmacher seems to have a load of options - 
> There are 4 tracks, each track is 16 steps, and there are 8 lines
> for controllers per track.

For comparison, the MnM has 6 tracks, each track is 64 steps, and 
there are 4 controllers + length, velocity, and pitchbend + 3 LFO's 
and an arpeggiator per track.  Add this to the 6 synth parts that may 
also be used as midi-controllers to some extent.  Now if they would 
just include different note length polyphony in the MIDI section, I 
would have nothing to complain about.

-gerald

oldmanfury wrote:
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen"
>> The Schrittmacher seems to have a load of options -
>> There are 4 tracks, each track is 16 steps, and there are 8 lines
>> for controllers per track.
>
> For comparison, the MnM has 6 tracks, each track is 64 steps, and
> there are 4 controllers + length, velocity, and pitchbend + 3 LFO's
> and an arpeggiator per track.  Add this to the 6 synth parts that may
> also be used as midi-controllers to some extent.

That does sound good indeed.

Now if they would
> just include different note length polyphony in the MIDI section, I
> would have nothing to complain about.

So could you explain the polyphony thing in short, please. Can I play, say,
3-note chords on track 1, another track of 2 note-chords on 2, and still
have 4 mono channels left. Or does this work with external synths only? Or
not at all?

Thanks.

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

droolmaster0 wrote:
>
> Well, not necessarily. He also builds them, and I am planning to buy
> a completed one from him later this month.

Aha! That might change things...

>>
> I wish they had specs in English for it, or even a price. The p3 has
> some incredible modulation capabilities. It's worth looking at the
> manual...towards the back. The interface isn't as nice as the Zeit,
> though. On the other hand, it's something like $1500 cheaper, if I
> remember the price of the Zeit correctly.

I thought Zeit and Schrittmacher were about the same price - something like
1500-1600 Euros...

Actually the thing that makes me look at the other sequencers (be it
Schrittmacher, Zeit, P3, or anything), is the fact that I will be able to
use (endless) rotary knobs. It's a very flexible way of adding /changing
note and controller data.

I do have 2 Electribes with the excellent X0X step sequencer system, and I
also own a MachineDrum with the same type of sequencer. As far as I can see
it now, a MnM would be exactly the same system, so I would basically only
get some new synth engines in a cool box... Or would I?

Could you explain if (and how) the sequencing on the MnM is different from
the Electribe way of adding notes (playing the little keyboard or changing
existing data with the wheel)?

thanx.

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

Coincidentally, this sequencer was discussed on Analog Heaven 
recently. A comment from someone who used one:

"Yes, I've seen it, played with it and played with it last year at 
frankfurt
when it was still a beta product.
Its not bad, its bascially a 4 channel 16 step sequencer.
Each channel has 8 'layers', each layer can be note length, velocity, 
note,
CC and so on.
So you can have one channel playing a polyphonic part using 3 layers,
another layer for Velocity, another for note length and so on, upto 8
layers, per channel.
Nice interface, though I would rather have had all 16 in one line, 8 
above
another 8 isn't intuitive, IMHO.

The down side(s)?
You can't build up 'songs' but you can queue patterns and switch them.
the BIG limitation, you can't change what a layer does whilst its 
playing.
For example, you're mid gig and you decide you want to add some CC 
control
to change filter cutoff.
You can't, you have to STOP the sequencer, change that 'layers' 
function and
restart.. not cool.
The P3 and Zeit both manage this, so why can't 1600 euros worth of
sequencer?
Thats the other point, a 2U sequencer doesn't look/feel like its 
worth 1600
Euros.."


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" 
<g.vansanten@c...> wrote:
> oldmanfury wrote:
> > --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen"
> >> The Schrittmacher seems to have a load of options -
> >> There are 4 tracks, each track is 16 steps, and there are 8 lines
> >> for controllers per track.
> >
> > For comparison, the MnM has 6 tracks, each track is 64 steps, and
> > there are 4 controllers + length, velocity, and pitchbend + 3 
LFO's
> > and an arpeggiator per track.  Add this to the 6 synth parts that 
may
> > also be used as midi-controllers to some extent.
> 
> That does sound good indeed.
> 
> Now if they would
> > just include different note length polyphony in the MIDI section, 
I
> > would have nothing to complain about.
> 
> So could you explain the polyphony thing in short, please. Can I 
play, say,
> 3-note chords on track 1, another track of 2 note-chords on 2, and 
still
> have 4 mono channels left. Or does this work with external synths 
only? Or

> not at all?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Gert
> www.waveworld.tv

On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 09:49:07AM +0200, Gert van Santen wrote:
>    Could  you explain if (and how) the sequencing on the MnM is different
>    from
>    the  Electribe  way  of  adding  notes (playing the little keyboard or
>    changing
>    existing data with the wheel)?

I don't have an Electribe.  but that sounds like the MD way of doing it
as well.  the main difference with the MnM is that you can have controller
changes on any note instead of just the notes where you have trigs.
and you can assign the controllers to the joystick so you can tweak them
in realtime.

you can't, however, record a PB/MW setting unless you dedicate a
controller to it/them.  and the controllers are assigned in the global
menu (unlike the MD, where they're assigned within the machine); so you
can't parameter lock a change of which CC# a controller should be
assigned to, like you can in the MD.

it's internal sequencing is much more full-featured since it's built in
and designed for the MnM. but the MIDI sequencing is still a worthwhile
feature (which I use all the time).

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" 
<g.vansanten@c...> wrote:
> droolmaster0 wrote:
> >
> > Well, not necessarily. He also builds them, and I am planning to 
buy
> > a completed one from him later this month.
> 
> Aha! That might change things...
> 

Well, I will definitely report back here after I try it out (Colin, 
who makes them, said that he could probably have mine made by months 
end, but he's on vacation right now). I'm sure that the fact that the 
Monomachine's sequencer is so well integrated into the synth will 
have its advantages, but the p3 has so many cool features that I have 
craved (and more that I hadn't even thought about), that I'm sure it 
will derange the fun considerably. Using both sequencers together 
ought to be even more fun.

> >>
> > I wish they had specs in English for it, or even a price. The p3 
has
> > some incredible modulation capabilities. It's worth looking at the
> > manual...towards the back. The interface isn't as nice as the 
Zeit,
> > though. On the other hand, it's something like $1500 cheaper, if I
> > remember the price of the Zeit correctly.
> 
> I thought Zeit and Schrittmacher were about the same price - 
something like
> 1500-1600 Euros...

They list 1299 British Pounds for the Zeit, which comes in at a 
little below $2400 right now. The P3 (also dependent on the exchange 
rate) at last calculation was about $800.
> 
> Actually the thing that makes me look at the other sequencers (be it
> Schrittmacher, Zeit, P3, or anything), is the fact that I will be 
able to
> use (endless) rotary knobs. It's a very flexible way of 
adding /changing
> note and controller data.
> 
> I do have 2 Electribes with the excellent X0X step sequencer 
system, and I
> also own a MachineDrum with the same type of sequencer. As far as I 
can see
> it now, a MnM would be exactly the same system, so I would 
basically only
> get some new synth engines in a cool box... Or would I?
> 

If you have a Machinedrum, you have a very good idea of the sequencer 
on the MnM. The one on the MnM is enhanced, but essentially based on 
the same model. I'm at work, and kind of busy, so I can't think of 
some quick differences between the two. Someone like Joe can probably 
reel them off. I've only tried the ER1 of the Electribes, and I 
didn't think that its sequencer was nearly as flexible as the 
Elektron sequencers.


> Could you explain if (and how) the sequencing on the MnM is 
different from
> the Electribe way of adding notes (playing the little keyboard or 
changing
> existing data with the wheel)?

Can't remember exactly how the Electribe worked, but essentially, 
with the MnM, you can enter data in real time using the pads as a 
keyboard, or you can step edit them. Don't most hardware sequencers 
limit you to these basic methods? You can also record parameter 
locks, as in the Machinedrum, by turning the knobs in real time, and 
you can record in notes from an external keyboard.

> 
> thanx.
> 
> Gert
> www.waveworld.tv

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" 
<g.vansanten@c...> wrote:
 
> So could you explain the polyphony thing in short, please. 
> Can I play, say, 3-note chords on track 1, another track 
> of 2 note-chords on 2, and still have 4 mono channels left. 
> Or does this work with external synths only? Or
> not at all?

Yes, you can play n-note chords on any track, and vary the number of 
notes, "n" within the track.  I don't know what the max number of 
notes per chord is, but I'm pretty sure it is more than 6 (too lazy 
to check right now).  You cannot however hold a chord down and change 
one of its notes mid-way.  This is annoying on many levels, 
especially when you're playing with an arpeggiating chord.

Also, the keyboard is last-note priority instead of high or low 
note.  Maybe they'll add a switch in the global menu for this 
someday, but last time I asked, the guys at elektron didn't know what 
I was talking about.  Do a search of the SOS archive if you're 
interested in this - I think Gordon Reid wrote a Synth Secrets 
article about it.

-gerald

Ronald Vonk (Roonan) wrote:

> 
> PS. what about the spectralis? ;-)

It looks awesome, but the price I've heard is out of my league.

:-)

Gert
www.waveworld.tv