Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi all,

My experience with syncing the MD (OS 1.19beta) isn't all that good either. 
When using the MD as master (what would be the best for me) for my other 
gear and Live, I can see the tempo fluctuating in Live. For example, if the 
MD tempo is set to 135BPM I could see the Live tempo jumping from 131 to 137 
from time to time. And thus getting more and more out of sync.

When I set the MD to receive sync control from Live but run on internal 
clock, the MD will start with a huge delay, like 1/16th. When I slave MD 
tempo to Live to I can get 'm to start together, but only by setting the 
delay compensation in Live at 100ms (max). That means the MD starts 100ms 
late. Although this could be due to my crappy laptop.

This all isn't a huge problem for me, as I record and arrange individual 
patterns and sequences in Live. But it for sure ain't the most flexible 
way...


Greetings, Dieter

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Hmm...this is bad news, both because you're using the new OS (which
was supposed to fix some sync issues) and because you're having the
same problems with Live that I'm having with Cubase--I was beginning
to hope that it was a Cubase problem and that switching sequencers
might solve it.

Right now this isn't a huge problem for me, because I'm just doing
production, and I can always fix a sync problem after recording.  But
one of the main reasons I bought the MD is for live performance, and
something that's off by 1/16 or even 1/32 is going to be a problem for
that.

A more general question: I was always a pure software person before
buying the MD, and I've never had sync issues in software--everything
locks together perfectly.  Is this kind of sync problem an issue with
all MIDI hardware--just a fact of life due to the imprecision of
MIDI--or is this something that's unique to the MD?

Cheers,
Dan


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Vandoren"
<theartistformerlyknownasvandoren@h...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> My experience with syncing the MD (OS 1.19beta) isn't all that good either. 
> When using the MD as master (what would be the best for me) for my other 
> gear and Live, I can see the tempo fluctuating in Live. For example, if the 
> MD tempo is set to 135BPM I could see the Live tempo jumping from 131 to 137 
> from time to time. And thus getting more and more out of sync.
> 
> When I set the MD to receive sync control from Live but run on internal 
> clock, the MD will start with a huge delay, like 1/16th. When I slave MD 
> tempo to Live to I can get 'm to start together, but only by setting the 
> delay compensation in Live at 100ms (max). That means the MD starts 100ms 
> late. Although this could be due to my crappy laptop.
> 
> This all isn't a huge problem for me, as I record and arrange individual 
> patterns and sequences in Live. But it for sure ain't the most flexible 
> way...
> 
> 
> Greetings, Dieter


		
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Dan,
Syncing is always an issue with MIDI hardware, but problems like this are 
pretty unusual for a modern thing like the MD. The least one would except 
from a complex/expensive machine like the MD is that it would sync right...

Dieter

===========================================
Message: 14
    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT)

    From: dks <dkschrage@...>
Subject: Re: MD sync

Hmm...this is bad news, both because you're using the new OS (which
was supposed to fix some sync issues) and because you're having the
same problems with Live that I'm having with Cubase--I was beginning
to hope that it was a Cubase problem and that switching sequencers
might solve it.

Right now this isn't a huge problem for me, because I'm just doing
production, and I can always fix a sync problem after recording.  But
one of the main reasons I bought the MD is for live performance, and
something that's off by 1/16 or even 1/32 is going to be a problem for
that.

A more general question: I was always a pure software person before
buying the MD, and I've never had sync issues in software--everything
locks together perfectly.  Is this kind of sync problem an issue with
all MIDI hardware--just a fact of life due to the imprecision of
MIDI--or is this something that's unique to the MD?

Cheers,
Dan

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.msn.be/sport/bookmaker2/default.asp

Syncing to MIDI clock is very tough because all manufacturers
interpret the standard differently, and in order to sync to all the
different sequencers the MD/Mono need to be omniscient and make up for
all strange behaviours.

With Machinedrum OS1.19beta and Monomachine OS1.04 (due very soon) we
have verified the following setups to work well:

MD->Mono
Mono->MD
Cubase SX->Mono/MD
Logic->Mono/MD
MPC->Mono/MD
MONO/MD->MPC

The setups above have been tested with four different setups, Mac, PC
and different MIDI interfaces. However, no setup is like the other one
these days so someone will probably experience some kind of problem.

So, there _was_ an issue with syncing the Mono/MD to Cubase, but as
far as we know we have solved it in OS1.19. Please check and see what
you find. There is a bug in SX2 though when using loops which we have
reported to Steinberg.

We haven't tried with Live before, and when checking now I can confirm
that the Mono/MD syncs very badly to it. We will try look up why and
see if we can adjust something to the 1.20 official release.

Again, please do not pay atention to the tempo displayed in the tempo
box when the Mono/MD is synced to external clock. The tempo displayed
is a rough calculation of what tempo the incoming MIDI clocks
represent. This tempo is just for display though, the Mono/MD syncs
exactly on each incoming clock. It's like a chain, where each MIDI
clock is like a tooth on a cog-wheel. That's why the swing is
quantised when the Mono/MD is synced - it's quantised to the closest
MIDI clock. That's also why the Mono/MD freezes first when sync is
lost. The cog-wheel stops, and until the internal fallback timer makes
the Mono/MD resort to internal clock, everything is held.

Syncing correctly with MIDI clock is a tough business, but perhaps
with a scientific research with a report like the excellent
feature-request submitted before 1.19 we could make it happen in a few
more setups!

Daniel

PS. They say this is the warmest winter we've ever had in Sweden. =)

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Vandoren"
<theartistformerlyknownasvandoren@h...> wrote:
> Dan,
> Syncing is always an issue with MIDI hardware, but problems like
this are 
> pretty unusual for a modern thing like the MD. The least one would
except 
> from a complex/expensive machine like the MD is that it would sync
right...
> 
> Dieter

On Fri Jul 16 2004, daniel_elektron <daniel@...> wrote:

> With Machinedrum OS1.19beta and Monomachine OS1.04 (due very soon) we
> have verified the following setups to work well:
> 
> MD->Mono
> Mono->MD
> Cubase SX->Mono/MD
> Logic->Mono/MD
> MPC->Mono/MD
> MONO/MD->MPC

Wonderful! I hope that this will solve my problems with getting my 
din-sync gear to sync correctly to the Mono as well. :)

/Janne, waiting for MM OS 1.04

Any tests comming up with MD/Mono as master to midi -> sync boxes?

-----Original Message-----
From: daniel_elektron [mailto:daniel@...]
Sent: vrijdag 16 juli 2004 12:19
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [elektron] Re: MD sync



Syncing to MIDI clock is very tough because all manufacturers
interpret the standard differently, and in order to sync to all the
different sequencers the MD/Mono need to be omniscient and make up for
all strange behaviours.

With Machinedrum OS1.19beta and Monomachine OS1.04 (due very soon) we
have verified the following setups to work well:

MD->Mono
Mono->MD
Cubase SX->Mono/MD
Logic->Mono/MD
MPC->Mono/MD
MONO/MD->MPC

The setups above have been tested with four different setups, Mac, PC
and different MIDI interfaces. However, no setup is like the other one
these days so someone will probably experience some kind of problem.

So, there _was_ an issue with syncing the Mono/MD to Cubase, but as
far as we know we have solved it in OS1.19. Please check and see what
you find. There is a bug in SX2 though when using loops which we have
reported to Steinberg.

We haven't tried with Live before, and when checking now I can confirm
that the Mono/MD syncs very badly to it. We will try look up why and
see if we can adjust something to the 1.20 official release.

Again, please do not pay atention to the tempo displayed in the tempo
box when the Mono/MD is synced to external clock. The tempo displayed
is a rough calculation of what tempo the incoming MIDI clocks
represent. This tempo is just for display though, the Mono/MD syncs
exactly on each incoming clock. It's like a chain, where each MIDI
clock is like a tooth on a cog-wheel. That's why the swing is
quantised when the Mono/MD is synced - it's quantised to the closest
MIDI clock. That's also why the Mono/MD freezes first when sync is
lost. The cog-wheel stops, and until the internal fallback timer makes
the Mono/MD resort to internal clock, everything is held.

Syncing correctly with MIDI clock is a tough business, but perhaps
with a scientific research with a report like the excellent
feature-request submitted before 1.19 we could make it happen in a few
more setups!

Daniel

PS. They say this is the warmest winter we've ever had in Sweden. =)

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Vandoren"
<theartistformerlyknownasvandoren@h...> wrote:
> Dan,
> Syncing is always an issue with MIDI hardware, but problems like
this are 
> pretty unusual for a modern thing like the MD. The least one would
except 
> from a complex/expensive machine like the MD is that it would sync
right...
> 
> Dieter




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- daniel_elektron <daniel@...> wrote:
> 
> Syncing to MIDI clock is very tough because all
> manufacturers
> interpret the standard differently, and in order to
> sync to all the
> different sequencers the MD/Mono need to be
> omniscient and make up for
> all strange behaviours.
> 
> With Machinedrum OS1.19beta and Monomachine OS1.04
> (due very soon) we
> have verified the following setups to work well:
> 
> MD->Mono
> Mono->MD
> Cubase SX->Mono/MD
> Logic->Mono/MD
> MPC->Mono/MD
> MONO/MD->MPC
> 
> The setups above have been tested with four
> different setups, Mac, PC
> and different MIDI interfaces. However, no setup is
> like the other one
> these days so someone will probably experience some
> kind of problem.
> 
> So, there _was_ an issue with syncing the Mono/MD to
> Cubase, but as
> far as we know we have solved it in OS1.19. Please
> check and see what
> you find. There is a bug in SX2 though when using
> loops which we have
> reported to Steinberg.
> 
> We haven't tried with Live before, and when checking
> now I can confirm
> that the Mono/MD syncs very badly to it. We will try
> look up why and
> see if we can adjust something to the 1.20 official
> release.
> 
> Again, please do not pay atention to the tempo
> displayed in the tempo
> box when the Mono/MD is synced to external clock.
> The tempo displayed
> is a rough calculation of what tempo the incoming
> MIDI clocks
> represent. This tempo is just for display though,
> the Mono/MD syncs
> exactly on each incoming clock. It's like a chain,
> where each MIDI
> clock is like a tooth on a cog-wheel. That's why the
> swing is
> quantised when the Mono/MD is synced - it's
> quantised to the closest
> MIDI clock. That's also why the Mono/MD freezes
> first when sync is
> lost. The cog-wheel stops, and until the internal
> fallback timer makes
> the Mono/MD resort to internal clock, everything is
> held.
> 
> Syncing correctly with MIDI clock is a tough
> business, but perhaps
> with a scientific research with a report like the
> excellent
> feature-request submitted before 1.19 we could make
> it happen in a few
> more setups!
> 
> Daniel
> 
> PS. They say this is the warmest winter we've ever
> had in Sweden. =)
> 


Thank you Daniel for all the help! Any chance of
getting some more sample sounds added to the E12
machine on the MD and MnM. 

Auto


		
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> With Machinedrum OS1.19beta and Monomachine OS1.04 (due very soon) 
we
> have verified the following setups to work well:
> 
> MD->Mono
> Mono->MD
> Cubase SX->Mono/MD
> Logic->Mono/MD
> MPC->Mono/MD
> MONO/MD->MPC

This sounds great! I was allready looking beatquantizer from zero-x, 
But I guess I'll try new OS before that :)



> Again, please do not pay atention to the tempo displayed in the 
tempo
> box when the Mono/MD is synced to external clock. The tempo 
displayed
> is a rough calculation of what tempo the incoming MIDI clocks
> represent. 

Thank you for the remainder.



> Syncing correctly with MIDI clock is a tough business, but perhaps
> with a scientific research with a report like the excellent
> feature-request submitted before 1.19 we could make it happen in a 
few
> more setups!

Maybe we can help with this issue..

Toni.