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2004-10-02 by Federico Ciapi
Can you please test the swing parameter on your MDs? It won't work correctly on mine... I push it up to 60 and nothing changes, then if I bring it back it kicks in... too many bugs on the 1.19 ! - ACME - ---------- next gigs: 15/10 @ Werk, Campi Bisenzio, Firenze [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-10-02 by kenny brush
same here a shame too - (fully operational) independent swings would be such a powerful way to break out of the MD's "locked" sequencer feel. can't wait till elektron gets it right. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-10-03 by Federico Ciapi
> > > same here > > a shame too - > > (fully operational) independent swings would be such a powerful way to > break out of the MD's "locked" sequencer feel. can't wait till > elektron gets it right. I don't know... swing should be global IMO. A real drummer has a "global" swing. What you're asking for is probably a "randomizer" function, something that is on some plug-ins (i.e. BFD). And I want the copy-paste pattern function to copy accent and swing too!!! They can't be copied in any way at the moment. Hope Electron guys are reading this...
2004-10-03 by analogback
> It won't work correctly on mine... I push it up to 60 and nothing > changes, then if I bring it back it kicks in... > > too many bugs on the 1.19 ! > > - ACME - i find it works on some tracks sometimes, but not very often. when i change the amount it usually affects all tracks. there are alot of annoying bugs which render the latest OS unusable. im back to 1.12.
2004-10-03 by -r-
it doesn't work on the midi machines either :( ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenny brush" <kenny_brush@...> To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [elektron] MD: Swing on 1.19 > > > same here > > a shame too - > > (fully operational) independent swings would be such a powerful way to break out of the MD's "locked" sequencer feel. can't wait till elektron gets it right.
> > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
2004-10-03 by kenny brush
Federico Ciapi <federico.ciapi@...> wrote: I don't know... swing should be global IMO. A real drummer has a "global" swing. What you're asking for is probably a "randomizer" function, something that is on some plug-ins (i.e. BFD). And I want the copy-paste pattern function to copy accent and swing too!!! They can't be copied in any way at the moment. Hope Electron guys are reading this... >>>>Uh - randomization does not come from freakin soft synths. It was originally a hard module function from modular synths. True randomizers send control, logic, and/or control voltage signals which can be used to trigger sequencers or anything else for that matter. When set up to randomize in probabalistic frameworks, they can be very powerful tools for composition. They are also extremely heavy users of DSP when incorporated in a digital synth and I would never expect Elektron to attempt that function -there is simply not enough excess DSP to handle a function like that. You really think swing should be global? Have you ever heard a real drummer? If you have, copy the break you listened to and import it into your favorite sequencer - look at it. How much of it appears to quantize to your sequencer? I've studied many breaks, and rarely did they quantize. The notion of a single swing value being able to bring the timing of a whole break to correct quantizable values is uninformed at best. But if you bought an MD to replicate humans, you're kinda missing the point. Either way, independent swings is extremely valid and will probably be the most useful of all the MD's upgrades in making more interesting drum machine breaks. Why do you think the MPC is so popular? Before you start making recommendations as to how Elektron should develop their machines, at least have an idea what you're talking about. The little buttons on your softsynth don't count. (unless you at least understand how the algorithms behind them are effecting the unit's internal architecture) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-10-03 by Ravi Ivan Sharma
Federico, Keep on making suggestions. Do not listen to fools with attitude. Ravi
----- Original Message -----
From: kenny brush
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [elektron] MD: Swing on 1.19
Federico Ciapi <federico.ciapi@...> wrote:
I don't know...
swing should be global IMO.
A real drummer has a "global" swing.
What you're asking for is probably a "randomizer" function, something
that is on some plug-ins (i.e. BFD).
And I want the copy-paste pattern function to copy accent and swing
too!!!
They can't be copied in any way at the moment.
Hope Electron guys are reading this...
>>>>Uh - randomization does not come from freakin soft synths.
It was originally a hard module function from modular synths. True randomizers send control, logic, and/or control voltage signals which can be used to trigger sequencers or anything else for that matter. When set up to randomize in probabalistic frameworks, they can be very powerful tools for composition.
They are also extremely heavy users of DSP when incorporated in a digital synth and I would never expect Elektron to attempt that function -there is simply not enough excess DSP to handle a function like that.
You really think swing should be global? Have you ever heard a real drummer? If you have, copy the break you listened to and import it into your favorite sequencer - look at it. How much of it appears to quantize to your sequencer? I've studied many breaks, and rarely did they quantize. The notion of a single swing value being able to bring the timing of a whole break to correct quantizable values is uninformed at best. But if you bought an MD to replicate humans, you're kinda missing the point. Either way, independent swings is extremely valid and will probably be the most useful of all the MD's upgrades in making more interesting drum machine breaks. Why do you think the MPC is so popular?
Before you start making recommendations as to how Elektron should develop their machines, at least have an idea what you're talking about. The little buttons on your softsynth don't count. (unless you at least understand how the algorithms behind them are effecting the unit's internal architecture)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2004-10-03 by niall munnelly
just thought i'd add another way of looking at swing/humanization, as implemented in my favorite sequencer (evar), sequitur's, "unquantize" filter: === Typically, MIDI performances have computer-perfect timing. Unquantizing is a process that slightly alters the time of MIDI events in order to create a sloppy, more human feel. The Amount parameter of this filter determines the maximum number of ticks that a single event can be offset, by randomly generating a value between zero and the Amount and applying that to each event. Randomly quantizing a performance makes it less mechanical, but generally not any more human, since human players tend to have patterns in their imperfections. If the Drifting parameter is on, this filter uses the Recovery value and Step value together to simulate a human player drifting on and off the beat. The Recovery is the maximum number of ticks it takes the performer to return to the correct time, the Steps are the number of ticks in each step on the return. === far be it for me to assert that such an approach could and should be implemented in the machinedrum, but i've heard the results, and they're surprisingly good. then again, this is what they make external sequencers for. =) -- yours, niall. .. . . . . . . . . . aleph null. a simple insinuation around silence. http://syncretism.net .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
2004-10-04 by Federico Ciapi
> Federico, > > Keep on making suggestions. Do not listen to fools with attitude. > > Ravi Thanks mate :) By the way, I was playing drums before I got into electronic music... so maybe I've heard how a real drummer swings on his drums. > kenny brush wrote: > Before you start making recommendations as to how Elektron should > develop their machines, at least have an idea what you're talking > about. The little buttons on your softsynth don't count. (unless you > at least understand how the algorithms behind them are effecting the > unit's internal architecture) Good suggestion.
2004-10-04 by Federico Ciapi
> just thought i'd add another way of looking at swing/humanization, as > implemented in my > favorite sequencer (evar), sequitur's, "unquantize" filter: > > === > Typically, MIDI performances have computer-perfect timing. > Unquantizing is a process > that slightly alters the time of MIDI events in order to create a > sloppy, more human > feel. The Amount parameter of this filter determines the maximum > number of ticks that > a single event can be offset, by randomly generating a value between > zero and the > Amount and applying that to each event. > > Randomly quantizing a performance makes it less mechanical, but > generally not any more > human, since human players tend to have patterns in their > imperfections. If the > Drifting parameter is on, this filter uses the Recovery value and > Step value together > to simulate a human player drifting on and off the beat. The Recovery > is the maximum > number of ticks it takes the performer to return to the correct time, > the Steps are > the number of ticks in each step on the return. > === > > far be it for me to assert that such an approach could and should be > implemented in the > machinedrum, but i've heard the results, and they're surprisingly good. > > then again, this is what they make external sequencers for. =) This looks like a nice sequencer :-) I'd like a link to know something more about it. I'm using the BFD plug-in for human-feel drums and it works really well. The thing is, a human drummer usually is less precise when he touches the drums OFF the beat.... ghost notes should be more "random" than the strong hit on the beat. BFD let's you choose all that. But I'm the first that is not trying to replicate human drummers with the MD, so who cares? :-) Independent swing for every track could be an interesting way to break rules... so why not?
2004-10-04 by Joe
On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 04:14:38AM +0200, Federico Ciapi wrote: > > Keep on making suggestions. Do not listen to fools with attitude. an excellent suggestion... > By the way, I was playing drums before I got into electronic music... > so maybe I've heard how a real drummer swings on his drums. likewise. ever heard Zigaboo Medeleste? how about John Bonham? how about Clyde Stubblefield or Jabo Starks? all of them are some of the funkiest drummers ever. anyone who thinks that only their hi-hat or ride cymbal beat is swinging isn't listening close enough. that said, independent swing isn't bad either - more options are never a bad thing in my opinion. unless they can't get it to work right!
2004-10-04 by analogback
--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Federico Ciapi <federico.ciapi@t...> wrote: > > > > > > same here > > > > a shame too - > > > > (fully operational) independent swings would be such a powerful way to > > break out of the MD's "locked" sequencer feel. can't wait till > > elektron gets it right. > > I don't know... > > swing should be global IMO. theb timing of the MD is very rigid it has the resoloution of a 606! its limiting in some ways, especially with midi machines. global swing is pretty much useless to me. humanisation is not required and the individual track swing wont deliver human drums, but its the next best thing to a zoom function.