EmulatorII-list

Hi,

I just realized that my EII has some issue.
When sampling and assigning key areas it could happen that one of the
sounds starts to scratch. If I delete this sample and resample the
sound the scratch shifts one assigned key area higher.At first I
thought the DRAM is faulty. Strange thing is that if I sample for the
whole 17 seconds there is no scratch at all. Is there someone with a
similar problem? 

Can someone provide me a memory test disk? I dont have that.

My EII needs help!

Hi!

Maybe you should do what I was told, and what I'm gonna be doing
tonight at home:
Reseat all the ICs on both EII boards. This will be tough, but as
their contacts get a little nitty gritty after 25 years, I guess it's
the best thing to to to be sure that all ICs are at least seated
correctly.

greetings, Elm.

Hi Elm,

any success?
I ordered 40 (hope this is enought) 4164s.
Hope this solves my problem as well.
They have 120ns timing. Is there a problem useing them with 150ns DRAMs?
I shifted some of the DRAM. My sequencing functions behaves strange
now. I also tried to put in the dram one after another and doing some
sampling to check the RAMs one after another. Seems to work.

Cheers

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@...> wrote:

>
> Hi!
> 
> Maybe you should do what I was told, and what I'm gonna be doing
> tonight at home:
> Reseat all the ICs on both EII boards. This will be tough, but as
> their contacts get a little nitty gritty after 25 years, I guess it's
> the best thing to to to be sure that all ICs are at least seated
> correctly.
> 
> greetings, Elm.
>

Hi!

Don't know yet - I made my way just through the output board yesterday
evening. That was a hell of work and patience. Took out each and every
IC, cleaned them and their sockets, plugged them back in. After five
hours or so I was through it.

Tonight, I'm gonna do the digital board, which features even more IC's....

I'm no expert in those issues, so I don't know much about these chip
numbers and stuff...

I just hope that all voices and the filter stay stable and clean after
all this action  :)

Greetings,
Elm.

Sounds like you really had a lot of fun yesterday :)!

I also checked my voiceboard but I think the scratching is not caused
by the voiceboard. I think if something goes wrong there, you will
hear that immediately at the seperate outputs. The scratch and crackle
I have is independent from the analog board. I remember that I had to
change a lot of tantal caps in old analog gear. Maybe some of the
tantal caps on the digital board need to be replaced as well. I check
them and let you know if this could be an error source as well.

Btw. do you have a memory check disk?

Cheers

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> 
> Don't know yet - I made my way just through the output board yesterday
> evening. That was a hell of work and patience. Took out each and every
> IC, cleaned them and their sockets, plugged them back in. After five
> hours or so I was through it.
> 
> Tonight, I'm gonna do the digital board, which features even more
IC's....

> 
> I'm no expert in those issues, so I don't know much about these chip
> numbers and stuff...
> 
> I just hope that all voices and the filter stay stable and clean after
> all this action  :)
> 
> Greetings,
> Elm.
>

Hi!

I know, but I indeed have problems with the output channels and the
filter. I do not have ram problems (well not yet ;) but i can clearly
hear how different channels play back the same sample in different
ways. also my filter seems to flip once in a while. There's a sound
example in the files section that I posted some days ago, where you
can hear what I mean.

If you only got problems when actually sampling, I suggest a good
workaround: Use EMXP to create a *.EII sound bank, and bring that to
the  EII via sound designer on mac. The result is brilliant, and you
don't have any noises caused by "analog" sampling.

Greetz,
Elm.

Sorry, no memory check disk...

Hi,

I checked the sample you uploaded. Especially in the end of your
sample the sound suddenly goes back to normal, right? If I had a
problem like this I would do the following.

1. Check the PSU if all voltages are correct
2. Replace the SSM Filter ICs
3. Replace the DAC ICs

I know these ICs are hard to get but I would give it a try with one or
two of them to check if this is the real problem. Of cause you should
do that after the PSU check. My guess is that the PSU has some bad
caps. I would check all the voltages. (beware of electric shock!)

The problem I have is not only while sampling its also while playing
the sample back.When swapping the RAMs the problem shifts. E.g. if I
sample for the whole 17seconds, second 3 contains scratch-sounds.
When changing some RAM to another bank, the scratch sounds will shift
to lets say second 5 of the sampling time.

I'll receive the DRAMs tomorrow, hope this solves the problem.
Else I have to do research as you do right now.

Good luck!



--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@...> wrote:

>
> Hi!
> 
> I know, but I indeed have problems with the output channels and the
> filter. I do not have ram problems (well not yet ;) but i can clearly
> hear how different channels play back the same sample in different
> ways. also my filter seems to flip once in a while. There's a sound
> example in the files section that I posted some days ago, where you
> can hear what I mean.
> 
> If you only got problems when actually sampling, I suggest a good
> workaround: Use EMXP to create a *.EII sound bank, and bring that to
> the  EII via sound designer on mac. The result is brilliant, and you
> don't have any noises caused by "analog" sampling.
> 
> Greetz,
> Elm.
>

If each successive note pressed playing back a sample gives different
filter response, I'd check the RC networks supplied to each channel's
filter IC's cutoff pins.  I had the same issue on my E2.  Each of the
8-voices on an E2 has its own filter IC at the output stage, and each
IC has an RC network to set the filter response.  If any one of the
resistors or capacitors setting that cutoff have degraded or have
open-circuit traces on the PCB directly at that filter IC due to
corrosion (leaking caps), that will alter the filter response on that
channel.  It can sound duller or brighter than others.

the way to tell which channel has filter issue is:
1-load a sample
2-connect E2 mix ouput to your mixer
3-press E2 key and then release it of your favorite note while
counting key presses starting from 1 to 8 (E2 has 8 note poly)
4-whichever note count sounds different than others, write it down,
that's your bad channel.
5-open E2 and check that channel filter IC bias R's & C's.  You will
have to remove the E2 power supply board to see some of them, as they
are underneath it.  Be careful here !

you will need the E2 service manual schematics to refer to what I'm
talking about and see the locations to check.

pardon any minor errors, as I did this about 3 years ago, and have
forgotten some of the details.
best of luck,

David

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@...> wrote:

>
> Hi!
> 
> I know, but I indeed have problems with the output channels and the
> filter. I do not have ram problems (well not yet ;) but i can clearly
> hear how different channels play back the same sample in different
> ways. also my filter seems to flip once in a while. There's a sound
> example in the files section that I posted some days ago, where you
> can hear what I mean.
> 
> If you only got problems when actually sampling, I suggest a good
> workaround: Use EMXP to create a *.EII sound bank, and bring that to
> the  EII via sound designer on mac. The result is brilliant, and you
> don't have any noises caused by "analog" sampling.
> 
> Greetz,
> Elm.
>

Emulator repair success!

Changing the DRAM worked. Everything is fine now. No more crackle or 
scratchy sounds. The only thing I need to do now is to re-sample the 
sounds I already made since the scratch is in the sample itself. 
Seems that damaged RAM causes noise while sampling. 
I'm very happy now! I think after all the repair I did my EII should 
last at least until 2028 ;).

Btw. anyone from Europe interested in a 3.5 floppy drive?

Cheers

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "wintermute0815" 
<wintermute0815@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I checked the sample you uploaded. Especially in the end of your
> sample the sound suddenly goes back to normal, right? If I had a
> problem like this I would do the following.
> 
> 1. Check the PSU if all voltages are correct
> 2. Replace the SSM Filter ICs
> 3. Replace the DAC ICs
> 
> I know these ICs are hard to get but I would give it a try with one 
or
> two of them to check if this is the real problem. Of cause you 
should
> do that after the PSU check. My guess is that the PSU has some bad
> caps. I would check all the voltages. (beware of electric shock!)
> 
> The problem I have is not only while sampling its also while playing
> the sample back.When swapping the RAMs the problem shifts. E.g. if I
> sample for the whole 17seconds, second 3 contains scratch-sounds.
> When changing some RAM to another bank, the scratch sounds will 
shift
> to lets say second 5 of the sampling time.
> 
> I'll receive the DRAMs tomorrow, hope this solves the problem.
> Else I have to do research as you do right now.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@> 
wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I know, but I indeed have problems with the output channels and 
the
> > filter. I do not have ram problems (well not yet ;) but i can 
clearly
> > hear how different channels play back the same sample in different
> > ways. also my filter seems to flip once in a while. There's a 
sound
> > example in the files section that I posted some days ago, where 
you
> > can hear what I mean.
> > 
> > If you only got problems when actually sampling, I suggest a good
> > workaround: Use EMXP to create a *.EII sound bank, and bring that 
to
> > the  EII via sound designer on mac. The result is brilliant, and 
you

> > don't have any noises caused by "analog" sampling.
> > 
> > Greetz,
> > Elm.
> >
>

just curious, where did you order the 4164's from and how much did
they cost ?




--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "wintermute0815"
<wintermute0815@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Elm,
> 
> any success?
> I ordered 40 (hope this is enought) 4164s.
> Hope this solves my problem as well.
> They have 120ns timing. Is there a problem useing them with 150ns DRAMs?
> I shifted some of the DRAM. My sequencing functions behaves strange
> now. I also tried to put in the dram one after another and doing some
> sampling to check the RAMs one after another. Seems to work.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Maybe you should do what I was told, and what I'm gonna be doing
> > tonight at home:
> > Reseat all the ICs on both EII boards. This will be tough, but as
> > their contacts get a little nitty gritty after 25 years, I guess it's
> > the best thing to to to be sure that all ICs are at least seated
> > correctly.
> > 
> > greetings, Elm.
> >
>

Hi David,

I ordered them in Germany from one of the big suppliers.
They were around 1.50 Euro per piece.
Not that cheap but I was happy to get them somewhere!

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "David J. Wilson" 
<jeepcherokee_10@...> wrote:
>
> 
> just curious, where did you order the 4164's from and how much did
> they cost ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "wintermute0815"
> <wintermute0815@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Elm,
> > 
> > any success?
> > I ordered 40 (hope this is enought) 4164s.
> > Hope this solves my problem as well.
> > They have 120ns timing. Is there a problem useing them with 150ns 
DRAMs?
> > I shifted some of the DRAM. My sequencing functions behaves 
strange
> > now. I also tried to put in the dram one after another and doing 
some
> > sampling to check the RAMs one after another. Seems to work.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "elmbeatz" <elmbeatz@> 
wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > > 
> > > Maybe you should do what I was told, and what I'm gonna be doing
> > > tonight at home:
> > > Reseat all the ICs on both EII boards. This will be tough, but 
as
> > > their contacts get a little nitty gritty after 25 years, I 
guess it's

> > > the best thing to to to be sure that all ICs are at least seated
> > > correctly.
> > > 
> > > greetings, Elm.
> > >
> >
>